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Author Topic: *facepalm* Guns Do Not Fly, people...  (Read 8041 times)

booksmart

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*facepalm* Guns Do Not Fly, people...
« on: July 02, 2013, 02:32:25 pm »
http://news.yahoo.com/ap-impact-more-air-passengers-show-guns-161232583.html;

Quote
WASHINGTON (AP) — Several times every day, at airports across the country, passengers are trying to walk through security with loaded guns in their carry-on bags, purses or pockets, even in a boot. And, nearly a dozen years after 9/11, it's happening a lot more often.

In the first six months of this year, Transportation Security Administration screeners found 894 guns on passengers or in their carry-on bags, a 30 percent increase over the same period last year. The TSA set a record in May for the most guns seized in one week — 65 in all, 45 of them loaded and 15 with bullets in the chamber and ready to be fired. That was 30 percent more than the previous record of 50 guns, set just two weeks earlier.

Last year TSA found 1,549 firearms on passengers attempting to go through screening, up 17 percent from the year before.

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    Arktos

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    Re: *facepalm* Guns Do Not Fly, people...
    « Reply #1 on: July 02, 2013, 02:40:28 pm »
    Is it that hard to check a bag?
    Wait, no this is a matter of intelgence....
    "If you are scared you die every day. If you are not scared, you die only once." -Giovanni Falcone

    schapm

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    Re: *facepalm* Guns Do Not Fly, people...
    « Reply #2 on: July 02, 2013, 03:24:47 pm »
    Is it that hard to check a bag?
    Wait, no this is a matter of intelgence....

    ...said the man who can't spell "intelligence."
    Indiana

    schapm

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    Re: *facepalm* Guns Do Not Fly, people...
    « Reply #3 on: July 02, 2013, 03:25:12 pm »
    ^ The devil made me do it.
    Indiana

    Kaso

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    Re: *facepalm* Guns Do Not Fly, people...
    « Reply #4 on: July 02, 2013, 04:04:09 pm »
    Is it that hard to check a bag?
    Do you mean by the TSA, or by the passenger at home?  If the TSA, I think the detected guns are a result of them doing their jobs successfully.  If the passenger... I (and many others on the board) would argue that the passengers should be permitted to carry for their safety.



    Kaso

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    Re: *facepalm* Guns Do Not Fly, people...
    « Reply #5 on: July 02, 2013, 04:08:52 pm »
    ...said the man who can't spell "intelligence."
      :eh Oh, come on...  You've never misspelled a word on the board?  :bash



    Kaso

    ZeroTA

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    Re: *facepalm* Guns Do Not Fly, people...
    « Reply #6 on: July 02, 2013, 05:30:50 pm »
    Get a brain, morans.
    I'm not saying you should use an M1A for home defense, but I'm also not saying you shouldn't.

    Coronach

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    Re: *facepalm* Guns Do Not Fly, people...
    « Reply #7 on: July 02, 2013, 05:45:57 pm »
    I misspell words all the time, but I try to make sure that I'm not trying to demonstrate how smart I am, or how dumb someone else is, when I do it.

    WTA, now with added irony!

    Mike
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    Chrissmitty820

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    Re: *facepalm* Guns Do Not Fly, people...
    « Reply #8 on: July 02, 2013, 05:47:32 pm »
    Get a brain, morans.

    It's MARONS

     >:D
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    LoneStarNational

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    Re: *facepalm* Guns Do Not Fly, people...
    « Reply #9 on: July 02, 2013, 08:11:17 pm »
    Guns fly just fine, thank you. Just not in your carry on.
    Texas"...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right..."  -Thomas Paine

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    Kaso

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    Re: *facepalm* Guns Do Not Fly, people...
    « Reply #10 on: July 02, 2013, 08:57:25 pm »
    I misspell words all the time, but I try to make sure that I'm not trying to demonstrate how smart I am, or how dumb someone else is, when I do it.
    You have a point.



    Kaso

    freeman1685

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    Re: *facepalm* Guns Do Not Fly, people...
    « Reply #11 on: July 02, 2013, 09:42:33 pm »
    Do you mean by the TSA, or by the passenger at home?  If the TSA, I think the detected guns are a result of them doing their jobs successfully.  If the passenger... I (and many others on the board) would argue that the passengers should be permitted to carry for their safety.


    Kaso

    If you mean by that, that I should be able to travel freely with my gun, well yeah. 

    But not in the pressurized cabin, at 35K feet, where some drunk passenger with a beef can get his hands on it.  And before you try to tell me how responsible most gun owners are, I got two words for ya:  Tex Grebner.  Can you imagine an idiot like that, having access to a gun in flight?  :panic

    Little pieces of lead flying around at around 1500FPS, is a recipe for disaster.  I'm good with checking my weapon into the cargo area, with my luggage.

    The rounds issued to people like Air Marshals are specially designed for use on airplanes, something not commercially available.  LE only, 'Anti Terrorist' rounds developed by the Israelis back in the 70s and early 80s.
    ArizonaStupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education or by legislation.  Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid.  But stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death, there is no appeal, and execution is carried out automatically and without pity.  RAH

    RetroGrouch

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    Re: *facepalm* Guns Do Not Fly, people...
    « Reply #12 on: July 02, 2013, 10:04:38 pm »
    It is actually really hard to bring down an aircraft with a handgun, so long as you don't shoot the autopilot and both pilots (yes, computers actually fly commercial aircraft, pilots only do the take offs and landings to maintain certifications on the aircraft).  Kind of designed that way.


    And the rounds Air Marshall's use can be bought by anyone who can legally buy ammo.

    Arizona

    Arktos

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    Re: *facepalm* Guns Do Not Fly, people...
    « Reply #13 on: July 02, 2013, 10:06:38 pm »
     
    ...said the man who can't spell "intelligence."
    A perfectly reasonable response. My poor excuse is that my spellchecker seems to stop working on occasion.

    Autopilot can land aircraft these days. The pilots are mostly there for legal reasons and the odd malfunction.
    "If you are scared you die every day. If you are not scared, you die only once." -Giovanni Falcone

    freeman1685

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    Re: *facepalm* Guns Do Not Fly, people...
    « Reply #14 on: July 02, 2013, 10:20:06 pm »
    It is actually really hard to bring down an aircraft with a handgun, so long as you don't shoot the autopilot and both pilots (yes, computers actually fly commercial aircraft, pilots only do the take offs and landings to maintain certifications on the aircraft).  Kind of designed that way.

    Ok, where exactly did I say anything about bringing an aircraft down with a gun?  I'm talking about sudden depressurization of the passenger cabin @ 35,000 feet.

    Quote
    And the rounds Air Marshall's use can be bought by anyone who can legally buy ammo.

    Wanna Bet?
    ArizonaStupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education or by legislation.  Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid.  But stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death, there is no appeal, and execution is carried out automatically and without pity.  RAH

    JesseL

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    Re: *facepalm* Guns Do Not Fly, people...
    « Reply #15 on: July 02, 2013, 10:25:06 pm »
    Ok, where exactly did I say anything about bringing an aircraft down with a gun?  I'm talking about sudden depressurization of the passenger cabin @ 35,000 feet.

    Bullets won't generally do anything significant in that regard either.
    Arizona

    Arktos

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    Re: *facepalm* Guns Do Not Fly, people...
    « Reply #16 on: July 02, 2013, 10:35:34 pm »

    Ok, where exactly did I say anything about bringing an aircraft down with a gun?  I'm talking about sudden depressurization of the passenger cabin @ 35,000 feet.

    Actually no. Cabin depressurization from small holes is very slow. Aloha Airlines Flight 243 lost a good chunk of the fuselage but remained somewhat airworthy. The plane landed safely, though one flight attendant was blown out. Aircrews are trained to dive as fast as safely possible in the event of a cabin depressurization. Cockpits are now separate pressure vessels, keeping the pilots pressurized and awake in the event the passenger cabin looses pressure.
     
    All that said, an airliner is about the worst place for a gunfight, purely because of the liner arrangement and seating density. Know your target, and know what is behind it.

    "If you are scared you die every day. If you are not scared, you die only once." -Giovanni Falcone

    LoneStarNational

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    Re: *facepalm* Guns Do Not Fly, people...
    « Reply #17 on: July 02, 2013, 10:43:16 pm »
    The only issue with guns on a plane is the incredibly crowded conditions, which make firing any handgun an extremely hazardous endeavor. For this reason, I can live with checking it.  Kinda like a college or professional sports stadium- the one other area where I will concede firearms MAY be a bad idea.

    I believe this is also the issue behind the "special" air Marshall rounds.  Aren't they just run of the mill frangibles?
    Texas"...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right..."  -Thomas Paine

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    Arktos

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    Re: *facepalm* Guns Do Not Fly, people...
    « Reply #18 on: July 02, 2013, 10:45:06 pm »
      I thought they used Glaser Safety Slugs. Regardless, a missed round or even fragments of it would be very, very bad.
    "If you are scared you die every day. If you are not scared, you die only once." -Giovanni Falcone

    Coronach

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    Re: *facepalm* Guns Do Not Fly, people...
    « Reply #19 on: July 02, 2013, 11:17:17 pm »
    Yep. To concur/confirm, the reason that gunfights in aircraft are bad is not because of depressurization, it is because of the layout and seating density. There is also the odd chance that a round could hit some critical piece of equipment, but that's a really small chance, and much of the equipment that could be damaged by gunfire is redundant. The big thing is the backdrop; it will almost always be "people" unless care is taken.

    One safety tip: if you are on a flight and you think you may have a brewing confrontation between a hijacker/nutjob and an Air Marshal (or if you're on the ground and the plane is about to be assaulted), stay seated when the bad guy is up and in the aisle. If you're up, you're in the line of fire.

    Mike

    PS Air Marshals use a standard, non-frangible, hollowpoint round.
    « Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 11:29:27 pm by Coronach »
    OhioNot stressed, but I am a carrier.

    LoneStarNational

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    Re: *facepalm* Guns Do Not Fly, people...
    « Reply #20 on: July 03, 2013, 12:07:34 am »
    PS Air Marshals use a standard, non-frangible, hollowpoint round.

    As it should be.
    Texas"...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right..."  -Thomas Paine

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    Avenger29

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    Re: *facepalm* Guns Do Not Fly, people...
    « Reply #21 on: July 03, 2013, 12:18:27 am »
    Quote
    Ok, where exactly did I say anything about bringing an aircraft down with a gun?  I'm talking about sudden depressurization of the passenger cabin @ 35,000 feet.


    Dont fall for Hollywood bulls___. Hollywood knows less about aircraft than they do about guns.
    South Carolina
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    Corey

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    Re: *facepalm* Guns Do Not Fly, people...
    « Reply #22 on: July 03, 2013, 12:21:53 am »

    PS Air Marshals use a standard, non-frangible, hollowpoint round.


    Specifically, they carry the Sig Sauer P229 in .357 Sig loaded with Speer Gold Dots. Not a set up known for shallow penetration. They are not at all concerned about putting extra holes in the plane.

    Edited to add: Here is what explosive decompression of a passenger jet actually looks like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243  It takes a lot more than a few dozen 9mm holes to do that.
    « Last Edit: July 03, 2013, 12:38:19 am by Corey »

    NukMed

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    Re: *facepalm* Guns Do Not Fly, people...
    « Reply #23 on: July 03, 2013, 07:08:36 am »
    I'd be fine with letting the airlines decide for themselves whether or not firearms could be carried aboard their aircraft in the same way that businesses on the ground decide.  After all, if air marshals are not only allowed, but required to carry arms aboard, I see no logical reason why I can't if I choose.

    I say take the TSA and other government regulations out of the picture and let the airlines decide for themselves what they will allow.  I, for one, would make it a point of flying a pro-2A airline if given a choice.
    Freedom trumps fear.  Rights trump security.  Free will trumps order.

    Coronach

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    Re: *facepalm* Guns Do Not Fly, people...
    « Reply #24 on: July 03, 2013, 08:49:21 am »
    I have no problem with airlines and other venues denying admittance to people carrying guns, provided a few simple steps are followed:

    1. There is actual security in place to screen people going in, so that people other than the obedient are actually stopped from carrying, too.

    2. There are competent armed guards present to protect me for when #1 fails.

    3. There is a process for checking in guns so that I can have my weapon when I come to and leave your little weapon-free utopia.

    4. You are legally liable for my safety, and I (or my family) can sue you into the poor house if you fail to protect me.

    Deny me my right to carry, you become responsible for my safety. Period.

    Mike

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    OhioNot stressed, but I am a carrier.

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