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Author Topic: Night sights or Laser grip?  (Read 5906 times)

ArmedNerd

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Night sights or Laser grip?
« on: March 09, 2013, 06:24:12 am »
Since my local IDPA club shoots at a indoor range, we do no light shoots each month and it has brought something to my attention, I can't see my sights in the dark.  I carry a small flash light so I can illuminate a bg, but I still can't see my sights.

So...should I go with glow in the dark sights or a crimson trace?
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    Outbreak

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    Re: Night sights or Laser grip?
    « Reply #1 on: March 09, 2013, 07:05:58 am »
    Night sights.

    First, lasers may not be allowed in IDPA (I know they're not allowed in IPSC/USPSA) and I find that they're more of a distraction and a crutch for those who don't want to learn how to use sights. You already [presumably] know how to use pistol sights, just need to see them in the dark.
    TexasOutbreak

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    Coronach

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    Re: Night sights or Laser grip?
    « Reply #2 on: March 09, 2013, 07:07:12 am »
    Concur. Night sights.

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    schapm

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    Night sights or Laser grip?
    « Reply #3 on: March 09, 2013, 07:35:35 am »
    Third vote for night sights. Lasers are not that great. I had a set of CT grips on a revolver and was thoroughly underwhelmed. My cat thought it was interesting when I would do dry fire drills, but you can get a laser pointer for like $4 if all you want to do is entertain your cat.
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    Coronach

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    Re: Night sights or Laser grip?
    « Reply #4 on: March 09, 2013, 09:20:46 am »
    I'm not anti-laser by any stretch of the imagination, but if I was given the option of one or the other, I'd choose the night sights every time. Also, it is one of those rare instances where the right answer is also the cheaper one. Gotta love that.

    Mike
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    Re: Night sights or Laser grip?
    « Reply #5 on: March 10, 2013, 05:37:16 am »
    tritium sights on the sig, laser grip on the model 10. bam.

    ArmedNerd

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    Re: Night sights or Laser grip?
    « Reply #6 on: March 12, 2013, 02:38:42 pm »
    Well...I ordered nite sights for the sig (big dot xs 24/7) and they said they were out of stock and it would be six weeks before I got my sights.  I paid extra for rush shipping because I wanted them to get here before my next match on the 24th.  Not happy  >:(

    EDIT: I looked back at my records and it looks like I didn't select the expedited shipping.  Weird...
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    Kaso

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    Re: Night sights or Laser grip?
    « Reply #7 on: March 12, 2013, 02:55:39 pm »
    I'm late to this, but I agree about the night sights.  In my experience, a laser grip will encourage poor shooting technique.  It's bright, it's red, and it naturally draws your eye to the target - and off of the front sight.  It also tends to reveal your position to your assailant...  Had it been me, I would have gone with all-green Trijicons, with white outlines... but that's just personal preference.



    Kaso

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    Re: Night sights or Laser grip?
    « Reply #8 on: March 20, 2013, 10:46:25 pm »
    ...would you say red dot sights encourage poor shooting technique because it's possible to use them without proper cheek weld? 'cause that's pretty much what you are saying.

    in proper laser technique the sight picture and laser are lined up on a bullseye at whatever range you zero your pistol at, usually somewhere around 20-30ft. draw and fire as normal, focusing on either the laser or the front sight because they are pointed at the same place. under 10ft the laser will be off slightly, though fractions of an inch don't generally matter at powderburn range. i'm sure there is a similar issue at longer range though i haven't bothered to test it.

    failure to line up the sights or trying to fire from the hip are user error, plain and simple. much like a guy attempting to balance on his chin trying to find the bouncing dot in a sight lashed to a carry handle

    "...reveal your position to your assailant" indeed; best we keep the lasers on civilian defensive hand guns and away from the Elite Team Fighters entry weapons.

    Coronach

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    Re: Night sights or Laser grip?
    « Reply #9 on: March 20, 2013, 11:35:43 pm »
    Lasers ALLOW poor shooting technique. It's up to you if you fall into that training trap. The laser's strength (ability to be used in less than ideal positions) is one of its greatest weaknesses (users tend to get complacent/sloppy/lazy). However, that's blaming an inanimate object for human failures.

    My objection to it for the OP is that, at the moment, his limited resources are better spent elsewhere, not the the laser is bad, per se.

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    Re: Night sights or Laser grip?
    « Reply #10 on: March 21, 2013, 02:31:17 am »
    well said,

    occasionally i find myself irritated by seeing the same objections to lasers copy/pasted by someone who has clearly never tried them. it's always phrased so similarly that i wouldn't be surprised if it could traced through a decade of blogs and forum posts to some old curmudgeon on thehighroad who still maintains that autoloaders are a passing fad.

    lasers; just another tool in the toolbox.

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    Re: Night sights or Laser grip?
    « Reply #11 on: March 21, 2013, 06:03:06 am »
    The only time I've ever liked a laser on a handgun was shooting one handed while carrying a shield.  Nothing like trying to line up your sights through the small window of a shield. The laser made shield shooting fun! 

    I would get night sights long before a laser.
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    Kaso

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    Re: Night sights or Laser grip?
    « Reply #12 on: March 21, 2013, 08:50:50 am »
    occasionally i find myself irritated by seeing the same objections to lasers copy/pasted by someone who has clearly never tried them.
    Okay, I'm glad you clarified.  I have, if fact, tried them on a few guns, and that's why I said 'in my experience.'  I can agree with Coronach, that the issue is lack of training on my part, but I still don't like them.

    it's always phrased so similarly that i wouldn't be surprised if it could traced through a decade of blogs and forum posts to some old curmudgeon on thehighroad who still maintains that autoloaders are a passing fad.
    I've never read anything to that effect before, and the opinions I wrote are soley mine, and were formulated through my own first-hand experiences.



    Kaso

    mnw42

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    Re: Night sights or Laser grip?
    « Reply #13 on: March 21, 2013, 09:28:18 am »
    Night sights, hands down.  They will not fail you and will not be obscured.

    I am not a fan of lasers for the reasons mentioned above.  They have a place, but you have to keep yourself from making you lazy.
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    RetroGrouch

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    Re: Night sights or Laser grip?
    « Reply #14 on: March 21, 2013, 04:29:13 pm »
    How good is your vision?  If you are young and/or have good vision, the night sights are probably good for you.  If you have less than stellar vision (mostly due to getting older) then the laser will be easier to shoot in low light conditions, as your pupils expand, making it harder to focus.  I personally have tried both in competitive situations, and I find the laser easier to use, as I have age related vision issues.  I only have to focus on the target (which most people do in a real defensive situation), and I find most night sights to be on the dim side, unless the room is completely dark.  You do have to train with lasers, as there is the tendency to try and stop the laser dot from dancing around on the target, which takes too long and is almost impossible.

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    Re: Night sights or Laser grip?
    « Reply #15 on: March 21, 2013, 10:39:06 pm »
    kaso, at some point there i began to generalize about anti-laser sentiment rather than your specific comments. 'draws focus from the front sight' and 'hunting the dot' all blend into a guy complaining that a swedish ax is terrible for splitting wood. he's not wrong, but he far cry from sensible.

    trying a borrowed pistol at the range doesn't really do the concept justice; a laser isn't meant to be used on your average well lit range at all. i thought laser grips were a waste of money until we traded into a snub nose that came with them. in low light they are phenomenal, far brighter than my warren tactical sights (my shiniest bit of tritium), and incredibly easy to use (though a pain to calibrate)

    i don't know where this 'laziness' argument comes from. years of training to draw and aim down the sights doesn't evaporate overnight and unless you ditched all your other guns and went out of your way to only shoot in low light i don't know how you could possibly get enough time behind a laser to retrain yourself improperly.

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    Re: Night sights or Laser grip?
    « Reply #16 on: March 21, 2013, 11:45:45 pm »
    The laziness comes mainly from people who are gun owners rather than shooters. They think the laser is a magic device that turns your average JHP into a smart bomb. I've seen this before, too.

    Forgot to add that night sights work in the daytime, too. Lasers don't.
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    Kaso

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    Re: Night sights or Laser grip?
    « Reply #17 on: March 22, 2013, 12:19:01 am »
    The laziness comes mainly from people who are gun owners rather than shooters.
    Just so.  My experience with lasers came before I was sufficiently practiced, and as such, they were 'retraining my shooting technique.'  Perhaps I could go back and try them, but with as little as I get out to shoot, I'd prefer to stick with the basics. :)

    That said, if anyone does want to use a laser, I have a quite nice set of lasergrips for a 1911 in the buy/sell section...  :whistle



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    IMerrell

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    Night sights or Laser grip?
    « Reply #18 on: March 22, 2013, 12:56:32 am »
    Also a laser is a electrical/mechanical device, at some time it WILL fail.
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    RetroGrouch

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    Re: Night sights or Laser grip?
    « Reply #19 on: March 22, 2013, 02:27:54 pm »
    And I've had "iron sights" fail (lose zero, fall off once).  I have had to replace the batteries on my Crimson Trace laser sights, but that is about the extent of them failing, and if you check them regularly, it isn't a problem.
    Arizona

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    Night sights or Laser grip?
    « Reply #20 on: March 22, 2013, 02:44:15 pm »
    I'm not just referring to the batteries, eventually irregardless of the batteries the device will stop working.
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    hi-power

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    Re: Night sights or Laser grip?
    « Reply #21 on: March 22, 2013, 02:55:41 pm »
    Quote
    Forgot to add that night sights work in the daytime, too. Lasers don't.

    well, no. tritium is even less visible than a laser when it's light out. what does work are the physical iron sights which are going to be there regardless (unless ultra snag free pistols with the sights lopped off make a come back...) and if you aren't aiming down the sights you are doing it wrong.


    Quote
    Also a laser is a electrical/mechanical device, at some time it WILL fail.

    a gun is a mechanical device with inevitable failure points. but it does have some advantages over the more reliable knife, no?

    in all seriousness the crimson trace units are sturdy and despite my clumsiness have survived several years of high rotation carry with only faint wear marks to show for it. the laser is a very simple device.
    in terms of battery life the estimated four hours run time comes out to years of carry and dry fire practice. i'm actually still on the original set after almost three years and the grips we bought used have only gone through two sets in the past eight years.

    potentially things could go wrong, but i worry about it less than i worry about banging up a scope.

    Quote
    I'm not just referring to the batteries, eventually irregardless of the batteries the device will stop working.

    they are pretty simple, it's going to be a long 'eventually'. i imagine i'll have to replace my tritiums well before the laser gives me an issue.

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