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Author Topic: "War Belt"  (Read 30832 times)

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Re: "War Belt"
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2013, 05:59:22 pm »
ROFL

I'm waiting for them to re-invent the buttpack.

The one thing about buttpacks is they make sitting in a vehicle kind of awkward, especially if you have long legs like me.  I remember many rides in the CO's Humvee with my knees jammed into the driver's seatback because my buttpack was pushing my butt forward several inches from my seat.

I never did figure out how the buttpack on ALICE gear works with a parachute harness, but apparently it does.  One thing MOLLE can't do.
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    Re: "War Belt"
    « Reply #26 on: February 26, 2013, 06:04:30 pm »
    While deployed (USMC 0311 A-stan) I used a extra thick war/patrol belt I got at the haji mart on base. It wasnt a war belt more like an extra thick riggers belt (no molle) intended to snap overtop one's pants belt via a plastic male female connection, I found this set up extremely useful b/c I could have a dump pouch, fixed blade knife and pouches with my NVG's and PVS 24 and one saw nut-sack (100 rd cloth drum its a USMC term not my own) pouch on my belt that I could easily detach when sitting in a vehicle or manning a turret etc and I liked the concept off having an additional low profile belt that consists of gear that could very well be mission essential but fequently was not needed. This setup can be carried easily with a low profile belt in conjunction with plate carrier and assault pack or ILBE (although I thankfully never humped an ilbe on a foot patrol in theater.)  My belt was of dubious haji mart quality and broke month 6 of the deployment and Im wondering if a better substitute now exists?
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    Re: "War Belt"
    « Reply #27 on: February 26, 2013, 06:46:54 pm »
    Persquaffty ...  something like this ?  http://www.originalsoegear.com/cobrabelt.html

    By the way thank you for your service. 
    Yes I live in California.  Please dont hold that against me.

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    Re: "War Belt"
    « Reply #28 on: February 26, 2013, 11:22:18 pm »
    essentially thats the idea, it was however less ummmm logical it had an inner and outer belt hard to explain like a police duty belt but not as logical and skinnier.
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    Re: "War Belt"
    « Reply #29 on: February 27, 2013, 01:26:37 am »
    I favor the war belt concept, simply because I am forced to wear one on duty. It's called the Police Duty Belt. Ergo, all of my gear is set up around the idea that I'll have a belt with some equipment and MAYBE a vest with some equipment. I could do completely different things on and off duty, but that adds a level of training complexity that doesn't do anyone any good. I basically assume that my "primary" gear will be on my belt and I may have additional crap on a chest rig. I try to keep locations consistent.

    Mike

    Here's a question for you.  If you could replace your normal police duty belt with the wider, padded MOLLE belt, would you?  I've worn a duty belt before, and I know how uncomfortable they can be.  I can't help but thinking the padded MOLLE belt might be a lot more comfortable (even if it did look a little silly on an on-duty police officer). 

    But no, your reasoning for using it is quite sound.  I'm all about that.  Whatever gear works for you, use it.  If it's a cheap Condor tac vest, if it works it works.  People have gone to war with worse.  The people we're fighting in Afghanistan are lucky if they have any load bearing gear at all.  Or shoes, for that matter.
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    Re: "War Belt"
    « Reply #30 on: February 27, 2013, 01:34:15 am »
    essentially thats the idea, it was however less ummmm logical it had an inner and outer belt hard to explain like a police duty belt but not as logical and skinnier.


    Hmm.  I think what you're looking for is basically one of the 2" nylon gun belts that a lot of the gear makers have.  I have this one, from Specter Gear:  https://www.spectergear.com/searchresults.asp?cat=61

    They even make a nice big pad for it, to make it more comfy.  Basically, it's a reinvention of the old ALICE pistol belt.  It's stiffer, better suited to carrying a holster, than the old web belt ever was.  It's designed not to be a pants belt (like I think the SOE gear one is), and a 2" belt won't fit through your pant loops anyway.  It goes over your pants belt.  You can even get nylon keepers from places like LA Police Gear and Cop Quest to attach it to your pants belt so it stays put (just make sure you get ones meant for a 2" belt.  Many are designed for 2.25" police duty belts, and they'll be too big).

    Specter also makes a dump pouch specifically designed for their duty belt.

    Or, you can combine one of these belts with a MOLLE pad (from a bunch of different gear makers now) and attach standard MOLLE pouches to it, but this will add a little bulk to it.  If your standard kit is a high ride plate carrier, then the MOLLE belt works.  If you're using the full up vest (I forget what the Marine equivalent of the IOTV is), then the vest will probably come down too far on your torso to make using the MOLLE belt practical.  I think you could still get away with a 2" duty belt though.

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    Re: "War Belt"
    « Reply #31 on: February 27, 2013, 07:20:47 am »
    Would I replace my duty belt with something more comfortable and adaptable if I could? Absolutely. I dunno if molle is the way forward for that or not, but appearance and policy aside, I'd certainly consider it.

    Mike

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    Re: "War Belt"
    « Reply #32 on: February 27, 2013, 09:10:15 am »
    My brother introduced me to the "sub-fighting unit" aka warbelt. This is a term from his days with Marine FAST company at Treasure Island, CA, back in the late 80's-early 90's. It had your pistol, fighting knife etc., that you might need to keep fighting or E&E-ing if you had to drop your armor in flight or in his case, if he went overboard off an oil rig or ship. It was also so you could remain armed and ready at all times even when not fully kitted up. When I was in boot camp what was called the war belt was simply the web belt that held our canteens and gradually more items as we progressed. SLM's 'sub-fighting unit" was that type of basic web belt and was way before MOLLE was introduced. I use one but when in the woods I still like the old LBE H harness attached to it.

    Like George has said many a time, I too think that every member of the Armed Forces should be issued a "warbelt" with sidearm and fighting knife upon graduation from basic and a version of it is to be on them at all times, even in full dress uniform. Imagine the difference it would have made at Ft. Hood and with so many ANA attacks by our so called allies. It would also serve as a reminder to each service member of the gravity of his office and would be like a badge of service/office to the public.

    I personally will always carry a sidearm into harm's way as a back-up to my rifle. Even if never used, its a comfort to have. Cost in supply, training, maintenance, etc. is the reason its not issued to every infantryman. If asked I think most Marine 0311's would welcome it. i assume the same about Army 11B's as well.

    I acually had what I previously considered to be a squared away SWAT officer complain about his sidearm in the woods. It was toooooo heeeeeavy. It banged up his hiiiiiiip. It got in the waaaaaaay snivelsnivelsnivel.

    Awwwww...Does it chafe too? Is it the wrong color? Does your tumtum hurt? He filed a complaint on me when we got back the next day. It cut his throat with the chief though who felt the same way I did. Needless to say, he wasn't taken along on any more surveillance missions. When we are lying in a hide site, we often are scouted out and have had bad guys walk right up on us without seeing us. A pistol is the best option for that close up contact.
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    Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong.
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    Re: "War Belt"
    « Reply #33 on: February 27, 2013, 09:54:04 am »
    When someone does that around here we ask him if he has a yeast infection. That usually settles things quickly.

    What is REALLY funny is when it is a female officer doing the asking. Nothing will shut a man up like that.

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    Re: "War Belt"
    « Reply #34 on: February 27, 2013, 11:31:21 am »




    Here you go, solider.  You have to carry your M9.  It's just a few more pounds, and one more accountable item you have to clean and make sure you don't lose and wear on your body somewhere. We're going to walk for twelve hours and run for a few hundred meters at the end. Oh, you still have to be mobile enough to react to contact, climb over mud walls, get through rivers, and hey, watch for pressure plates while you're at it.  It's 120* outside, so make sure you have enough water.  We're not getting resupplied this time.

    Afghanistan changed a lot of people's notions of what to carry on a dismount. Experiences there are one of the main reasons thigh holsters are less popular now.  I never brought my sidearm on a multi-day.  I'm already carrying a ton of crap. I never saw any of my Army guys carry one, not even the officers.  And that's just where I was.  Other places in Afghanistan are very high altitude, over 8, 9, or 10,000 feet.  There's no room for superfluous crap when you can carry more water, more batteries, or more ammunition for your rifles and machine guns (the guns you'll actually use).  You're more likely to get run over by a jingle truck because you didn't have your reflective belt on, than you are to need your M9 in Afghanistan.

    "Everyone should carry a weapon at all times" sounds cool in theory.  In reality, the US serviceman isn't some kind of samurai. The military is a large, bureaucratic organization made up of every type of person imaginable, not some elite warrior caste.  It'd mean every member of a battalion would have to stay on base overnight because some dumbass lost his sidearm.  It'd mean a rash of negligent discharges.  It'd mean even more improperly worn shoulder holsters. It'd mean multimillion dollar aircraft destroyed because some maintainer was required to wear a gunbelt when crawling around in the intake of an F-16, lost his mag, and had a round pop out that he didn't notice.

    More trouble than it's worth.

    As for the insider attacks, everyone in Afghanistan these days IS armed at all times these days.  It doesn't help you when the ANA goes instant jihad and shoots you in the back. It certainly doesn't help against a suicide bomber. And I would much rather the finance guys get better at processing my travel voucher, then them spending their limited training time learning to use a pistol that they'll never need.

    I'm not saying I'm against the carrying of service sidearms or anything, but I'm being realistic. I try not to be dogmatic about things.  Carrying a pistol on the battlefield isn't necessarily a bad idea, but it's certainly not necessary and you're not "wrong", you're not "not a warrior", and you don't "have the wrong mindset" if you don't have one. It's just a piece of equipment, not a badge of honor.
    « Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 11:42:29 am by Nightcrawler »
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    Re: "War Belt"
    « Reply #35 on: February 27, 2013, 12:41:33 pm »
    That was an epic rant, and not being in the service ever I don't have any information or opinion that matters on that subject.

    However the phrase "You're more likely to get run over by a jingle truck" has now earned a permanent place in my vocabulary.
    « Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 01:30:11 pm by Deathrider1579 »

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    Re: "War Belt"
    « Reply #36 on: February 27, 2013, 01:40:13 pm »
    I've always hated drop/thigh holsters. By hate, I was give one for free and ended up setting it on fire. Gorram Alliance junk.

    For me, a war belt is essentially an LBE (which I'm old enough to have used) minus the shoulder straps. Straps are generally a good idea. So... Sure, LBE's are great. LBE's without the straps is slightly controversial, I suppose. But I've taken off my H and V straps before.

    I suppose I made a war belt with my rigger's belt for when I hiked. Essentially I used an M16 mag pouch to hold my supplies. I'm leery of going all tacticool now that I'm out of the military. I prefer focusing on normal looking solutions. I've gotten some VERY odd looks at training classes because I had no tacticool accessories. No optics, no vest, no nothing. I ended up putting an M16 mag pouch on my belt. Tis about it. I used an OWB holster, and tucked in my shirt for the "tactical pistol" part. I conceded that I was not trying to go for "high speed, low drag" operator. I was practicing for the way I lived every day, not practicing for the way I did NOT live every day. Not knocking that sort of training. Just saying, a lot of people train very differently than they act in the normal world.

    War belt in the military? Sure. Again, it's the old LBE system. Belting your pouches to you instead of your armor. Admittedly, I always belted my pouches to my armor. I hung my armor on essentially a stubby cross, and could go from asleep to "everything on" in seconds. Slap on K pot, rip off armor (already open), put on armor, grab rifle, close up armor while running. A separate belt would have slowed me done by two to five seconds, if fumbling in the dark. Simple enough to fix, a peg off the cross towards the front to hold the belt. The advantage would be solely if I needed to ditch the armor. Unlikely, to happen, but possible.

    Honestly, I'd rather than be using an assault pack on a quick detach system on my armor, but that's personal preference. I can and have winged a pack over a fence, or obstacle. Belt would have made it harder in confined space...  I dunno. I can see the advantages and disadvantages. I went with "strap everything to the armor, extra crap goes in the backpack, 'bailout bag' was a not-really-tacticool $5 general issue butt pack". It didn't bite me in the rear, but I understand the appeal of the LBE system.

    I still remember flipping my pack over my head to get on.  Ye Gods I still remember how STUPID it was to be carrying a 70-90 lb ruck. Seriously. I was in very good shape, and it was a bear to even put on when you were all kitted up.
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    Re: "War Belt"
    « Reply #37 on: February 27, 2013, 02:16:36 pm »
    In my mind, the War Belt is something that you can quickly pick up and snap on, then grab your rifle. It has magazines and a pistol already on it, apparently. It's for regular folks who have had some training, not professional soldiers.

    If you had to get into a shooting match with someone, you don't to standing there in your pajamas with an empty rifle thinking, "Can I make it back to my bedroom to get another mag?" I think its just another way of conveniently carrying extra ammo and gear.

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    Re: "War Belt"
    « Reply #38 on: February 27, 2013, 02:38:33 pm »
    Again, just so I'm clear, I'm not bashing anybody or anyone's choice of gear. Just thinking out loud, no worries.  I didn't mean to sound ranty.

    I've also seen a MOLLE bandolier that would also be a good choice for the citizen who might need to throw on some extra ammo in case of an emergency.  It just goes over a shoulder instead of around your waist.
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    Re: "War Belt"
    « Reply #39 on: February 27, 2013, 03:04:33 pm »
    I might consider getting a belt, but I just have the shotgun for home defense, and have cobbled together a pouch with a shoulder strap that holds shells. If I need the pistol, I'll put on my pants.

    I think it's awesome that there are so many gear options out there.

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    Re: "War Belt"
    « Reply #40 on: February 27, 2013, 03:27:45 pm »
    In my mind, the War Belt is something that you can quickly pick up and snap on, then grab your rifle. It has magazines and a pistol already on it, apparently. It's for regular folks who have had some training, not professional soldiers.

    If you had to get into a shooting match with someone, you don't to standing there in your pajamas with an empty rifle thinking, "Can I make it back to my bedroom to get another mag?" I think its just another way of conveniently carrying extra ammo and gear.
    Again, just so I'm clear, I'm not bashing anybody or anyone's choice of gear. Just thinking out loud, no worries.  I didn't mean to sound ranty.

    I've also seen a MOLLE bandolier that would also be a good choice for the citizen who might need to throw on some extra ammo in case of an emergency.  It just goes over a shoulder instead of around your waist.

    To nitpick... Not sure why folks would call it a "war belt" instead of fanny pack, tool belt, utility belt, bat belt, ammo belt, etc. Chuck Norris wears one, then it's manly. So, no worries on that front.

    Anywho. Yea, this one is just going to be tied to personal preference. I can't see any distinct advantages to the bat belt over a bag, pack or bandolier. This is not bad, it just is. A bag, pack or ruck could be made to look normal and non-tactical. Bandolier and bat belt would be much harder, but maybe possible. This may or may not be a disadvantage, based on your preferences.

    Guess in the end, I concur with Nightcrawler.
    To know the darkness is to love the light,
    to welcome dawn and fear the coming night.
    - Book of Counted Sorrows

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    Re: "War Belt"
    « Reply #41 on: February 27, 2013, 03:40:30 pm »
    Quote
    Not sure why folks would call it a "war belt" instead of fanny pack, tool belt, utility belt, bat belt, ammo belt, etc. Chuck Norris wears one, then it's manly. So, no worries on that front.

    Because gun writers/school instructors do. Manufacturers picked it up because it's marketable.  End users like it because...well, take John Citizen, owner of an AR-15.  John does some internet research, decides he wants to take a professional carbine course, and then equips himself accordingly.  John then runs through the carbine course with his Multicam WAR BELT and carbine, gets to hang out with a comparatively famous, experienced firearms instructor or two, has a great time, and feels like a badass running and gunning.

    That's why.  :shrug
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    Re: "War Belt"
    « Reply #42 on: February 27, 2013, 03:46:14 pm »
    Because gun writers/school instructors do. Manufacturers picked it up because it's marketable.  End users like it because...well, take John Citizen, owner of an AR-15.  John does some internet research, decides he wants to take a professional carbine course, and then equips himself accordingly.  John then runs through the carbine course with his Multicam WAR BELT and carbine, gets to hang out with a comparatively famous, experienced firearms instructor or two, has a great time, and feels like a badass running and gunning.

    That's why.  :shrug

    Nothing wrong with that, either.
    To know the darkness is to love the light,
    to welcome dawn and fear the coming night.
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    Re: "War Belt"
    « Reply #43 on: February 28, 2013, 03:45:01 am »
    If I ever have to put on fighting gear to face anything more dangerous than EDC or range day, I want to preserve the option of invisibility.  I want to carry without looking like a catalog picture, I want to be camouflaged without looking like I am camouflaged.  I also need to account for mobility with kids, and my tactical vehicle is not an uparmored anything, but it does have a lot of cup holders and booster seats. 

    Washington"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.  But, in practice, there is. "
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    Re: "War Belt"
    « Reply #44 on: February 28, 2013, 03:54:56 am »
    I just bought a full set of molle gear and a "war belt"  Wait for the first episode of Delta Bravo Tactical to find out why.
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    Re: "War Belt"
    « Reply #45 on: March 03, 2013, 09:16:55 pm »
    as someone who has never been paid to shoot or be shot at, the war belt/ battle belt/ superDuty belt et cetera has a lot of appeal.
    i've never had a plate carrier, tactical harness, or whatever those things are called, and probably never will. i would feel a fool wearing one and i really don't see the point outside of a war zone. but an oversize belt with the essentials that i can quickly strap on? that i can get behind. if it easily adjusts so i can buckle it over a coat so much the better.
    reloads, flashlight, and a holster for the nightstand gun ready to buckle over my jammies sounds a bit overkill but potentially useful.
    small enough to be thrown in with the bugout gear or a trunk survival kit but big enough to be useful, i could see getting one.

    of course i still poke fun at my buddy who bought the name brand battle belt and strapped a bajillion AR mag pouches right across his back and has zero general purpose gear...the fancied up belt is a good idea, but not everyone executes it well.

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    Re: "War Belt"
    « Reply #46 on: March 05, 2013, 10:41:47 am »

    I need to make a gwar belt. That way I can make money from both tactical market as well as metal fans. 
    To know the darkness is to love the light,
    to welcome dawn and fear the coming night.
    - Book of Counted Sorrows

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