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Weapons and Gear => C&R => Topic started by: MTK20 on August 08, 2015, 11:25:20 pm

Title: Old reloading tool, what is this?
Post by: MTK20 on August 08, 2015, 11:25:20 pm
We have had this as an interesting knick knack in the family (passed down by my great grandfather) and we don't really know what it is. Any suggestions on specific make, model, and use (other then just "reloading tool").

Markings: what looks to be "Ideal MFG Co. New Haven Conn. USA" the clearest writing is the "25-20R" what that means, I do not know. 25-20 rimmed?
Title: Re: Old reloading tool, what is this?
Post by: cpaspr on August 09, 2015, 12:27:15 am
It's missing a part.  That appears to be an all in one, reloading tool, for, as you surmised, a .25-20 rifle.  The last picture shows one half of the mold for making new bullets.  The part that is missing is the sprue cutter that is screwed into the hole on the top of the mold (left side of the first picture).  The tool could be used to make new bullets, size and deprime and reprime cartridges, then after manually filling with the correct amount of powder, seat a new bullet.
Title: Re: Old reloading tool, what is this?
Post by: MTK20 on August 09, 2015, 02:32:19 am
Thanks!

More questions: what would the sprue cutter look like for a handheld device like this?

What firearms are likely to have used the .25-20 rifle cartridge?

Lastly, nationality of said cartridge and weapons that used it?

This has now piqued my interest. Time to practice my Google-fu  :cool.
Title: Re: Old reloading tool, what is this?
Post by: cpaspr on August 09, 2015, 02:00:08 pm
Simply googling ".25-20" indicates it was a Winchester round, from the late 1800s.  Also, manufactured using smokeless powders, once those were developed.  If I recall, I saw a video linked to from here.  Ah, yes, here it is:  https://wethearmed.com/hunting-fishing-and-trapping/25-20-winchester-92/msg363767/#msg363767 (https://wethearmed.com/hunting-fishing-and-trapping/25-20-winchester-92/msg363767/#msg363767).

The sprue cutter would be similar to any on a modern cast bullet mold.  Note, though, that the hole for pouring lead through must be centered over the mold cavity.  They are not all interchangeable.
Title: Re: Old reloading tool, what is this?
Post by: MTK20 on August 09, 2015, 03:03:37 pm
Thanks, cpaspr!  :thumbup1
Title: Re: Old reloading tool, what is this?
Post by: Il Rob on August 09, 2015, 03:51:29 pm
Quote
What firearms are likely to have used the .25-20 rifle cartridge?

The only firearms I am familiar with that were chambered for .25-20 were the Winchester Model 92, the Remington Model 25 (the Model 25 was a neat little small frame pump also chambered for .32-20), and inexpensive bolt action rifles like the Winchester Model 43 and the Savage Model 23.

The guns are all antiques (although I did recently come across an Oregon Kimber 82 in that caliber) but .25-20 is still loaded by Winchester and (I think) Remington. Or it was recently anyway.

I rather like the .25-20, I think it should make a dandy little short range varmint round. Especially here in Illinois where it seems like there is house on every corner even out in the country. However, everyone nowadays wants at least 3000 fps out of their varmint guns, whether they really need it or not  :D 

The only thing I have for it now is a Remington Model 25 that is really too nice to take into the field. Wish I could find another "shooter" grade gun, but so far no luck. If you want to find a gun to shoot .25-20, I'd recommend the Winchester lever gun or the small Remington pump. I'm sure Marlin made a lever gun as well. I'd avoid the Savage 23 and Winchester 43, at least for shooters. These were really rimfires chambered for low powered centerfire cartridges (like the .25-20 or .22 Hornet) and probably weren't very durable.

Oh, and neat find with the reloading tool!

Rob
Title: Re: Old reloading tool, what is this?
Post by: coelacanth on August 09, 2015, 11:46:02 pm
Yup, the 25-20 is supposedly a neat little small game round.  I think Marlin also chambered their 1893 lever action in that caliber.  I never actually fired one but the I have fired the 32-20 and it's about on par with the .30 carbine out of a rifle.   I imagine the 25-20 would be even less recoil and report.  Ballistically I'd put in in roughly the same class as the .22 magnum rimfire but with a slightly heavier bullet.

Those old loading tools were a bit crude and strictly a black powder proposition as I recall.   Still, they were pretty handy to keep the old smokepole fed and game in the pot. 
Title: Re: Old reloading tool, what is this?
Post by: only1asterisk on August 10, 2015, 01:26:20 am
There is more than one 25-20.  More than likely it is the .25 WCF.

Here is a Ideal tool in good condition:
http://www.gunauction.com/buy/5781595
Title: Re: Old reloading tool, what is this?
Post by: MTK20 on August 10, 2015, 01:38:37 am
Oh, no.

Cartridge controversy  :facepalm.

 :rotfl

The tool only reads ".25-20 R".
Title: Re: Old reloading tool, what is this?
Post by: only1asterisk on August 10, 2015, 12:15:12 pm
Oh, no.

Cartridge controversy  :facepalm.

 :rotfl

The tool only reads ".25-20 R".
97% sure the markings refer to the .25 WCF aka .25-20 Winchester.  The markings are similar to other Ideal tools of that era.  It would would have been a likely companion of a lever action or single shot rifle.
Title: Re: Old reloading tool, what is this?
Post by: armoredman on August 10, 2015, 10:21:01 pm
There'a a museum out there that would love to have that for their Old West exhibit. Very nice!
Title: Re: Old reloading tool, what is this?
Post by: MTK20 on August 11, 2015, 01:17:51 am
There'a a museum out there that would love to have that for their Old West exhibit. Very nice!

Thanks!  :cool
Title: Re: Old reloading tool, what is this?
Post by: RMc on August 16, 2015, 01:31:53 am
97% sure the markings refer to the .25 WCF aka .25-20 Winchester.  The markings are similar to other Ideal tools of that era.  It would would have been a likely companion of a lever action or single shot rifle.

".25-20 R"  The "R" stands for repeater.  There were two distinct .25-20 cartridges. The older one was referred to as the .25-20 SS, (single shot), after Winchester brought out the shorter .25-20 round for the 1892 lever action repeating rifle.

More on the .25-20 WCF or Repeater:

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellCB25-20Win.htm