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Author Topic: Multi-use suppressors  (Read 19972 times)

mattitude

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Re: Multi-use suppressors
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2009, 11:54:17 pm »
A couple small items, and not to sound like a "know-it-all", but just to give some friendly advice...
Using a soda bottle as a suppressor is a felony. Posting about this act is self incrimination. I would delete the post if it were mine. Also it might even be against the site's rules (discussion of illegal activities and all).
In regards to having or using adapters to fit a "can" on multiple weapons...
Most companies in the "know", have both weapon's barrels threaded so as to accept the one can. Some that are not as "aware", will use differing adapters to accomplish this task. This is a touchy subject, that the ATF generally turns a blind eye to, but it definitely falls within their authority. Possession of any "spare" part for a suppressor is considered "intent to manufacture". Prosecution for this infraction is a distinct possibility. Using one can on a couple weapons is doable, but just be very careful how you go about doing it.
Just a couple cents worth of wisdom, from your friendly neighborhood Drunk Machine Gunners Club...  ;)

Soda bottle isn't the best idea and I agree with you there...but everything else isn't the case.  A suppressor mount isn't a NFA controlled item and you can buy them w/o any paperwork AND even some manufacturers sell them on their firearms as a "stock" item.  Another thing is that a suppressor isn't assigned to a particular host and as long as the suppressor is legally owned the ATF doesn't care if you fire a rimfire through a .50BMG can.  I think you are confused with your "intent to mnufacture" as no one is talking about spare baffles, tubes or end caps (when they are removable) which are the only controlled parts.  Boosters & mounts can be bought by anyone and kept stock if desired.
North CarolinaMedically retired Air Force (17 years, 7 months & 25 days)

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    DMGNUT

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    Re: Multi-use suppressors
    « Reply #26 on: July 22, 2009, 01:59:25 am »
    Mattitude, you are correct. I misspoke myself using the word "adapter" in a general way. I was thinking of a specific instance at a range where someone actually had 2 different end caps (or adapters) for a can, so it could be put on 2 different weapons. He claimed the can's manufacturer had made the 2 caps for him. For all I know, he may have made the extra one himself. It was only my intent to point out that there are some obscure laws in regards to NFA items, that us civilians could easily and without intending to, run a foul of.
    On a side note, someone interested in a can, interchangeable on different weapons, might consider checking out Fischer Enterprises, in Tempe, AZ. They make a can which will "quick connect" over the top of the Smith Enterprises, Vortex flash hider. I don't know if this allows it to swap between calibers, but if you wanted to use it on 2 or 3 different ARs, and they each had a vortex flash hider... its a pretty slick setup.

    chiwar7178

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    Re: Multi-use suppressors
    « Reply #27 on: July 22, 2009, 04:23:55 am »
    I wonder what all it would take to be able to make your own suppressors, and be legal...Maybe a firearms production license, class III license, more?   :hmm

    DMGNUT and Mattitude:
    Heh... Seems like I'm not the only paranoid one; good.  General paranoia is healthy, especially in these troubled times--unjustified paranoia isn't healthy, ever.  The key when you're talking about anything--be it hunting, shooting, traveling, operations, etc. is to not be super-specific and keep tabs of what all people are allowed to know.

    If you're capable, you don't want to post something out in the open concerning your ability to "hit a tennis ball at 1500 yards during a hurricane while laying prone in the passenger compartment of a flying helicopter," in any context--because if you do, then you're going to be on a very short list of people to have federal agents kick in your door at "oh-dark-thirty" in the aftermath of any shooting of a public official.  I guess what I'm saying is this: if you're in the top 5% of shooters, as far as skill goes, keep it to yourself and/or downplay your abilities--be modest and NEVER, EVER, use your skills for nefarious purposes.  With great power comes great responsibility.  Don't abuse your power like a lot of politicians do--don't stoop to that level.

    Assuming said event *really* took place ;). It'd end up being very lucrative, and ultimately funny, if anyone tried to prosecute me for something that would be A) beyond statute of limitation, B) they have absolutely NO evidence of, only heresay.  Also, to anyone on here, or anyone just perusing teh interwebz: does anyone know if said event really happened?  Or, since I never disclosed jurisdiction--did it happen in the U.S.--if it indeed happened?  Not enough information, ability to employ 5th Amendment rights (if anything illegal did occur in the U.S.), no proof of any wrongdoing--all those throw the idea of prosecution under the bus.

    All:
    Before anyone jumps in and says, "BUT YOU JUST PUT YOURSELF IN THE SPOTLIGHT WITH THAT!"  I didn't just bring a spotlight on myself with my previous, or this, post.  I put myself in the spotlight back in 2001 when I enlisted and filled out the paperwork to be granted a Top Secret security clearance--and also everytime I've ever filled out that Form 1187 (#?) and had a NICS check done so I can buy a firearm--just like a great many of the members on WTA.

    In the last 8 years, I haven't done anything that would jeopardize my security clearance, or 2AR--despite REALLY wanting to go chew-out and throw water balloons at some OPM agents that were parked outside my house using an IR laser mic, which would've been considered obstruction of justice.  Concerning the OPM agents: I B.S. y'all not--through sheer fluke, I saw the diffusion of an IR laser beam through my sliding glass window when I was testing out NVG's in the living room one night (which is the reason I don't keep ANY of my windows absolutely spotless; that is, if I don't have privacy film on them).  Once I figured out it was coming from outside the house, I even videotaped the vehicle and occupants.  I later found out they were OPM agents through some law enforcement friends of mine who viewed the video (and it was verified by a few of the people that were questioned concerning my character/activities during my clearance investigation).

    I have absolutely TONS of shooting stories, but I can't share them entirely because I'm expected to not discuss who all was there, and some of them--not even the events that occured.

    There are quite a few things, both firearms and non-firearms related, that I've done that noone will EVER know about, unless you happened to be there with me at the time.  Such examples would include the maximum distance I've EVER shot at (and hit) a gallon jug-sized target, what bullet constructions and loads I've personally worked up, where my rounds strike downrange, what locations (other than formal ranges) that I've shot specific weapons at, how/when I perform clearing/defense drills in my home, where exactly I aim on a target, and everyone that I've ever come into contact with concerning firearms training--be it formal or informal.

    Some of the things non-firearms related that noone will know about unless they were with me would be: my dating history, preferred overall appearance and qualities of a partner, preferred activities, my "schedule" of daily activities, and what components/supplements of/to OPSEC/FPCON that I actually use in my day-to-day life.  Those things are integral when battling terroris; furthermore, they're noone else's business, and I like to keep it that way.  Even if I am to post/say what some methods of doing something, it doesn't mean that I've actually used them, but I've at least researched them and think they're a plausible idea (read: if it's innoculous, I've most likely done it.  If it's questionable: I  PROBABLY haven't).  I like to keep everyone, including those possibly keeping tabs on me, guessing.  No sense in making intelligence-gatherers' jobs any easier; especially not in the Socialist-state that our country's headed toward.

    We all know that Big Brother has been at it for a very long time; what most don't think about is Little Brother.  Practice your Google-Fu and look "Little Brother" up if you don't know what it is.

    I read something to this effect a few weeks ago on this very site:
    When it comes to ANY legal preceedings, it's not about the truth; it's about telling a story to 12 people, hopefully with supporting evidence, them deciding whether or not it's believable, and whether or not the evidence supports the story.

    There is NO SUCH THING as Justice.  This is because if there were Justice, everyone (no matter color, creed, age, financial/social status, physical health, etc.) would still have their rights, guns, money, and ability to think for themselves (and exercise that ability).
    "Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietum servitium."
    --Latin: "I prefer liberty with danger to peace with slavery."

    Thernlund

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    Re: Multi-use suppressors
    « Reply #28 on: July 22, 2009, 02:32:51 pm »
    I wonder what all it would take to be able to make your own suppressors, and be legal...Maybe a firearms production license, class III license, more?   :hmm

    That's really easy.  Fill out an ATF Form 1, send it in with your $200, and wait.  Once you get your tax stamp, go to work!  People do this all the time.

    If want to make them as a business, you need an FFL/SOT.


    -T.
    Arizona  Arm yourself because no one else here will save you.  The odds will betray you, and I will replace you...

    chiwar7178

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    Re: Multi-use suppressors
    « Reply #29 on: July 23, 2009, 02:11:49 am »
    Hmm...  :hmm

    Excellent...I was thinking that I needed an FFL & SOT (i.e. at least $500 a year) to be able to make my own.  It is very good that I only have to get Form 1 and pay the $200 to build my own.  Now I get to go and employ my Google-Fu so I can find some detailed schematics or just some garage directions for making suppressors.

    A :ninja smiley would be cool; but not as cool as a minigun one.
    "Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietum servitium."
    --Latin: "I prefer liberty with danger to peace with slavery."

    Thernlund

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    Re: Multi-use suppressors
    « Reply #30 on: July 23, 2009, 02:18:35 am »
    LOTS of great info at Silencertalk.com.  Check out the "Silencersmithing" forum.  You'll have to sign up though as it's Members Only.

    Watch yourself.  Those guys can get mean.  :scrutiny  When ST says they pull fewer posts than other forums, they mean it.  It's pretty much unmoderated.

    But LOTS of awesome info there.  Check it out.


    -T.
    Arizona  Arm yourself because no one else here will save you.  The odds will betray you, and I will replace you...

    Outbreak

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    Re: Multi-use suppressors
    « Reply #31 on: October 17, 2009, 09:03:12 pm »
    Revival again:

    I have a .22LR conversion for my AR. What would it take to put my [future] .22LR can on the AR, only for use with the .22 conversion of course.
    TexasOutbreak

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    I absolutely despise Glocks. That's why I only own two.

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    Harm

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    Re: Multi-use suppressors
    « Reply #32 on: October 18, 2009, 12:39:43 am »
    Outbreak, I'll throw out my understanding of it, and then wait for someone smarter to correct me.  But I believe if it's a 22can, and it's a 22AR Upper, then all you need is a threaded end to match the threading of the suppressor. 
    ArizonaIn Deo Confido

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    mattitude

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    Re: Multi-use suppressors
    « Reply #33 on: October 18, 2009, 12:55:54 am »
    Damn near all .22 rimfire cans that thread directly on to the barrel are standard 1/2 x 28 thread pitch...come to think of it I can't think of any rimfire can that has a different thread pitch.  So all you would need to do is unscrew your flash suppressor from the barrel and simply screw on the can.  Simple as that.

    Revival again:

    I have a .22LR conversion for my AR. What would it take to put my [future] .22LR can on the AR, only for use with the .22 conversion of course.
    North CarolinaMedically retired Air Force (17 years, 7 months & 25 days)

    JesseL

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    Re: Multi-use suppressors
    « Reply #34 on: October 18, 2009, 01:20:18 am »
    As long as the muzzle threads are concentric and square with the bore...

    I don't know how hard the average AR barrel maker works to do threading right.
    Arizona

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    Re: Multi-use suppressors
    « Reply #35 on: October 18, 2009, 05:59:26 pm »
    Revival again:

    I have a .22LR conversion for my AR. What would it take to put my [future] .22LR can on the AR, only for use with the .22 conversion of course.

    I think I might consider spending the extra coin and just getting a .223 suppressor, which could be used with the .22LR as well.


    -T.
    Arizona  Arm yourself because no one else here will save you.  The odds will betray you, and I will replace you...

    mattitude

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    Re: Multi-use suppressors
    « Reply #36 on: October 18, 2009, 07:46:44 pm »
    You really don't want to do that.  If you've ever seen the inside of a rimfire suppressor just after 1,000 rounds you will see how this is a bad idea.  There is only 1 take apart 5.56 suppressor (Tactical Innovations TAC-16) that I know of and it sells for 400.00 I believe, but other than that firing rimfire through a sealed centerfire can will fill it up quickly  which reduces internal volume and in turn destroys performance. 

    I think I might consider spending the extra coin and just getting a .223 suppressor, which could be used with the .22LR as well.


    -T.
    North CarolinaMedically retired Air Force (17 years, 7 months & 25 days)

    Thernlund

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    Re: Multi-use suppressors
    « Reply #37 on: October 18, 2009, 10:58:14 pm »
    Gunscrubber.  :scrutiny


    ;D


    -T.
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    mattitude

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    Re: Multi-use suppressors
    « Reply #38 on: October 19, 2009, 12:41:52 pm »
    It takes a blast cabinet, glass beads and about 30 minutes to clean the baffles on my rimfire suppressor.  If you are up for an experiment I have an easy one for you and your suppressor (I assume that you have a sealed suppressor and clean it with Gunscrubber) and only requires a small scale.  Weigh your suppressor and record the weight in grams if possible as it will give you the most accurate weight.  Shoot at least 2000 rounds through your can and weigh it again.  The vaporized lead and carbon build up will add weight to your can.  Clean with Gunscrubber.  Weigh again and compare your initial figure with the post cleaning weight.  I will guarantee you that your can will weigh more than your initial weight and will only continue to get heavier despite the Gunscrubber treatment.  The only way to remove the molten vaporized lead is to use an abrasive method.  Chemical removal will only get you so far but ultimately you will not be able to remove the hard buildup. 

    Gunscrubber.  :scrutiny


    ;D


    -T.
    North CarolinaMedically retired Air Force (17 years, 7 months & 25 days)

    Thernlund

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    Re: Multi-use suppressors
    « Reply #39 on: October 19, 2009, 01:40:07 pm »
    Disagree brother.  I've cleaned my suppressors by soaking them full of Gunzilla/MPro7/whatever CLP I have on hand for a few hours, dump them out, fill 'em back up with carburetor cleaner, dump out, rinse with carburetor cleaner.  Works perfectly.

    However... I don't shoot unjacketed lead through them.  In fact, I haven't shot unjacketed lead at all since... oh... '88 maybe?

    On that front I digress.  Although I don't think a blast cabinet is necessary, you do make a good point where rimfire is concerned.  A centerfire suppressor should not have to be cleaned very often (every couple/few thousand rounds maybe?).  Rimfire on the other hand will muck it up in short order.  So on that tip I guess I don't disagree necessarily.


    -T.
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    Outbreak

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    Re: Multi-use suppressors
    « Reply #40 on: October 19, 2009, 08:48:42 pm »
    You really don't want to do that.  If you've ever seen the inside of a rimfire suppressor just after 1,000 rounds you will see how this is a bad idea.  There is only 1 take apart 5.56 suppressor (Tactical Innovations TAC-16) that I know of and it sells for 400.00 I believe, but other than that firing rimfire through a sealed centerfire can will fill it up quickly  which reduces internal volume and in turn destroys performance. 


    That sounds pretty cheap for a centerfire rifle can. Is it any good?

    I also can't really afford 2 cans for a while. I have no real need to suppress centerfire guns. For that matter I don't need to suppress a .22 either, but I wanna, and it's a lot cheaper all around. I'm just trying to find the best bang for buck.

    We already covered the idea of using a .223 can on a .22LR pistol and more or less discounted it because of size and weight. If I can stick a .22LR can on an AR, that would be awesome until the gun budget allows for a .223 or 7.62 suppressor.
    TexasOutbreak

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    I absolutely despise Glocks. That's why I only own two.

    I'm glad that your chains rest lightly upon you. --JesseL

    mattitude

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    Re: Multi-use suppressors
    « Reply #41 on: October 19, 2009, 11:53:10 pm »
    Centerfire cans are a whole different animal when it comes to fowling.  There is no where near the amount of build up in a centerfire since the projectiles are jacketed which eliminates the vaporized lead, the faster powders burn cleaner and the only build up is from carbon which doesn't have no where near the volume gobbling of lead.  Rimfire cans get very dirty very quickly and if you take a look of what suppressor manufacturers offer now is that there are less sealed cans available now than a few years ago with user servicable cans taking the lead by far.  There is a little performance gain with a sealed (rimfire) can but it is very marginal and that margin goes away after only a few thousand rounds.  Most manufacturers also don't recommend soaking rimfire cans because most make the baffles from aluminum which gets destroyed by most solvents and voids warranties and makes the cans unsafe.  I got a pretty good education on rimfire cans and they are different than centerfire cans which their maintenance requirements are different that is due to different construction materials (stainless steel) and much cleaner ammunition...so soaking centerfire cans is really the only way to clean them as most are sealed anyway.

    Disagree brother.  I've cleaned my suppressors by soaking them full of Gunzilla/MPro7/whatever CLP I have on hand for a few hours, dump them out, fill 'em back up with carburetor cleaner, dump out, rinse with carburetor cleaner.  Works perfectly.

    However... I don't shoot unjacketed lead through them.  In fact, I haven't shot unjacketed lead at all since... oh... '88 maybe?

    On that front I digress.  Although I don't think a blast cabinet is necessary, you do make a good point where rimfire is concerned.  A centerfire suppressor should not have to be cleaned very often (every couple/few thousand rounds maybe?).  Rimfire on the other hand will muck it up in short order.  So on that tip I guess I don't disagree necessarily.


    -T.
    North CarolinaMedically retired Air Force (17 years, 7 months & 25 days)

    mattitude

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    Re: Multi-use suppressors
    « Reply #42 on: October 20, 2009, 12:01:48 am »
    The Tac-16 is a "so-so" can and you would be doing better on the budget end with either an AAC Ranger (screw on) or a M4-1000 (fast attach) and you could get either for under 600.00 if you shop around.  But for your first suppressor I would recommend a rimfire as you will get MUCH more enjoyment out of it and use it a hell of a lot more.  Don't believe the "Hollywood" portrayal of suppressors because they aren't that quiet or sound like that at all...but a rimfire can is pretty damn close.  Centerfire cans add quite a bit more stress on the host weapon and you will still find yourself wearing hearing protection when using them and not only that but the blow back from the back pressure is horrible.  You will get big puffs of gas in your face when firing a rifle and it stinks like ammonia and burns your eyes.  The extra pressure also batters an AR pretty badly and I would recommend either an adjustable gas tube or gas block to restrict the gas flow to the bolt carrier but even so you will experience blow back coming back through the barrel as the barrel volume is so low that the gas pressure doesn't drop and has to go somewhere...and that is back into the receiver and the magazine well also.  You will find that the rounds in the magazine will be covered with carbon and if you use a PMAG the window will start to black out from the carbon.  Rimfire cans are awesome and you get a lot of bang for your buck.

    That sounds pretty cheap for a centerfire rifle can. Is it any good?

    I also can't really afford 2 cans for a while. I have no real need to suppress centerfire guns. For that matter I don't need to suppress a .22 either, but I wanna, and it's a lot cheaper all around. I'm just trying to find the best bang for buck.

    We already covered the idea of using a .223 can on a .22LR pistol and more or less discounted it because of size and weight. If I can stick a .22LR can on an AR, that would be awesome until the gun budget allows for a .223 or 7.62 suppressor.
    North CarolinaMedically retired Air Force (17 years, 7 months & 25 days)

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