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Author Topic: Wife's new Truck  (Read 9521 times)

coelacanth

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Re: Wife's new Truck
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2019, 03:05:54 am »
Got it.  Sounds fairly typical in today's manufacturing environment.  Any chance of retro-fitting an older style latch mechanism less prone to the freezing problem?    :hmm    Trying to work through this one is a bit out my experience - considering we don't deal with much ice and snow and sub freezing weather here in Arizona.   :cool
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    aikorob

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    Re: Wife's new Truck
    « Reply #26 on: December 31, 2019, 09:57:08 am »
    https://www.fordf150.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=123522

    if you can see this topic..............about halfway down page 3, a guy posted his solution to prevent/redirect the water away from the latch

    GeorgiaFrom The Codex Kalachnikova: "He who would have you surrender your arms does so because he wishes to do something you could prevent by their usage."

    Mikee5star

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    Re: Wife's new Truck
    « Reply #27 on: December 31, 2019, 06:44:04 pm »
    https://www.fordf150.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=123522

    if you can see this topic..............about halfway down page 3, a guy posted his solution to prevent/redirect the water away from the latch

    I knew the problem was ongoing and had existed for several years.  Thanks for the link, I will read through it later.  I have to call the dealership to find out when they think they can get to mine.  I might send the link to  my service manager. ;) 

    My wife's '16 does not have the issue, as we bought it used we don't know if the fix was applied or if it came fine from the factory.  The service manager said said that Ford had updated the service bulletin three or four times on what the "fix" is.

    Got it.  Sounds fairly typical in today's manufacturing environment.  Any chance of retro-fitting an older style latch mechanism less prone to the freezing problem?    :hmm    Trying to work through this one is a bit out my experience - considering we don't deal with much ice and snow and sub freezing weather here in Arizona.   :cool

    My dad offered to take my truck to Tuscon when he and my mom head back there in a couple of weeks.  We both figured the problem would go away down there.  It was 38 and raining when I got up this morning, by noon temp had fallen 15 degrees and it was blowing 25mph and snowing about an inch a hour.
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    coelacanth

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    Re: Wife's new Truck
    « Reply #28 on: January 01, 2020, 12:28:30 am »
    After reading through that thread about the problem(s) that aikorob posted it kind of makes me mad at Ford for not just owning this issue for the folks affected.  You can bet your a$$ets that they knew about this problem from their dealers when it first showed up.   You can't have a hundred or more F series trucks all setting out in the weather on the lot and not get real familiar with this one.    :scrutiny    I neither know nor care what the internal communication situation is at Ford or how they handle a screw up of this magnitude but I have to think if I were running the show those responsible for letting this problem get out of hand and remain that way for two or three years would be looking for a new job.

    Ford is not alone in this kind of thing - all the manufacturers act this way in my experience.  They spend hundreds of millions of dollars over the years on product development and testing and that much again on marketing and promotion but none of that is going to buy you any customer loyalty when you don't do the right thing when your product fails in the real world. 
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    aikorob

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    Re: Wife's new Truck
    « Reply #29 on: January 01, 2020, 06:36:05 am »
    ..................... I neither know nor care what the internal communication situation is at Ford or how they handle a screw up of this magnitude but I have to think if I were running the show those responsible for letting this problem get out of hand and remain that way for two or three years would be looking for a new job. .............

    especially their flagship product

    but, it's a calculated risk to the bean counters------
    out of all the trucks sold; only a small subset will be outside, in freezing conditions, where this problem will show up. Ford sold over 800K   F-series in 2016
    if 100K vehicles are affected, and the repair cost is $500=5M     If the cost for an improved design over all 800K trucks is more than $62.50 each; they lose money
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    Raptor

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    Re: Wife's new Truck
    « Reply #30 on: January 01, 2020, 09:09:14 am »
    Unfortunately, this appears to be SOP for Ford. My family had a very early 90s Ford Taurus station wagon that we bought new. Don't recall the exact model year since I was in kindergarten when we got it, so almost certainly a 1991 or 1992 model. The type of engine that was in our wagon turned out to be seriously defective. As in multiple serious recurring issues. Leaky head gaskets was one, and I recall that some senor or valve kept malfunctioning, and the timing belt never stayed in tension either (as a result of of the last one, the car made a sound like fingers on a chalkboard whenever it idled or accelerated).

    And Ford being Ford, to the best of my knoweldge they promptly acknowledged the problems and implemented permanent solutions repeatedly refused to admit that there was anything wrong with the engine model whatsoever, and their authorized repairs consisted of similar quick 'n' done patches like with your latches, though they thankfully did fix them under warranty... until the warranty expired. Then owners were screwed. They finally did acknowledge the issue and offer to compensate the owners according to the current market value of their car... in the early 2000 when the cars were so old that they were barely worth anything. My Dad was so disgusted with the car by that point (which seemed to be in the shop on a monthly basis by that point) that he took whatever deal they were offering, put the money towards a Honda minivan, and vowed to never by an American car brand ever again.
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    coelacanth

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    Re: Wife's new Truck
    « Reply #31 on: January 01, 2020, 02:02:04 pm »
    Unfortunately - for all concerned - the "bean counters" have an effect on the whole industry.  The problem(s) we are discussing are not confined to one manufacturer or the manufacturers of any one country.  They span the entire spectrum of the automotive industry.  I won't list anecdotes here but they are a few mouse clicks away for any and all manufacturers if you'd care to look for them.

    The cost(s) of fixing an existing problem are considerable but they must be weighed against the cost(s) of people swearing off the brand entirely because of bad experience.  A lot of the problem(s) can be traced to the staggering sums of money necessary for governmental regulatory compliance.  It all comes out of the bottom line and corporate shareholders are not known for their forgiving nature over the long term. This makes the corporation choose between the devil you face today and the one you'll probably face tomorrow.  Without getting too deep into the differences between strategic and tactical thinking as they apply to the auto industry, the companies must juggle a lot of competing priorities. 

    The problem is the customer who buys a faulty product is invariably the one left holding the bag - whether its a dealer who is losing customers every day because the manufacturer is playing that game they play or the customer who bought the product from that dealer and is simply done with the whole business and looking to limit the losses and move on. 

    I have never had a car or truck or any other piece of machinery that was entirely trouble free over a five year period of ownership.  Some didn't make it to the five month mark.   I have owned American, European and Asian makes - both cars and light trucks.  Heavier equipment has been primarily American and Japanese.  To date, the most reliable makes over the long haul have been Ford, Toyota, Kubota and Subaru.   The best dealers are those that have tried to intervene on behalf of the customer with a problem that was clearly a manufacturer's issue.  Those dealers, in my experience, have been Subaru and Chevrolet dealers with Ford and Toyota a notch or two behind them.   

    I finally gave up on Chevrolet as a brand in spite of having a good dealer experience.  They may have gotten better since then but I'm not yet willing to take another chance on them.  Subaru has been a pleasant surprise so far.  Ford is still pretty solid despite a few black eyes over time and Toyota has a pretty solid product but their dealer network can be hit or miss and dealership parts and repairs may well fall into the realm of an abusive relationship.  :facepalm   
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    Mikee5star

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    Re: Wife's new Truck
    « Reply #32 on: January 01, 2020, 03:54:32 pm »
    Bean counters are the death of high quality anything.  But without them we could not afford to buy the product and the market would be so small due to length of product life and initial cost the manufacture would not remain in business.   As I have said, I don't know what percentage of trucks have this problem, but it does not seem to show up until truck has been in service for about 6 months.  People who had problem show up right away bought used trucks.  Every repair place I have ever seen has some sort of inside work space, so problems caused by vehicles being out doors can be hard to "repeat".  My sample size is 2.  I have a failure rate of 50%.  It is huge to me.  I spent around $73,000 on both of these vehicles, again huge to me.  But they have a used Limited or Platinum F150, can't remember which, that they are asking $75,000 for USED. :facepalm

    My dealer ship pulled my truck in to the shop last night, pulled the door panels opened the doors and are leaving it that way until the parts come in Thursday.  They expect to have my truck back to me Friday.  They are attempting to do right by me. 

    I just looked at the Car Fax for the used F350 I was looking at and saw that it went in to the dealer ship for DOOR LATCH FREEZING ISSUE in October.  Not sure what I think about that.  I am hoping that my truck will be fixed, not sure that I will ever trust it fully again.  It is the best compromise of what I NEED that I could find. 

    I would look at a Chevy/GMC if there was a dealership closer, but I do not have the time for a 10 hour round trip to look at a truck I am not sure I would buy.  If there was a Toyota, Nissan, and GM 1/2 ton crewcab long bed 4 wheel drive standard truck I would, but nobody makes such a beast any more.  Gm did, they called it a 1500HD, but it only came with a bigger engine and was a 2 or 3 year oddity.  I can't justify the time and expense to look at the compromises when I like hate Ford.  I get mad at Ford, go to something else, and then come back to Ford as they build the vehicles that come the closest to meeting my needs/wishes, at the quality and price I can almost afford.
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    coelacanth

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    Re: Wife's new Truck
    « Reply #33 on: January 01, 2020, 09:51:49 pm »
    If you went to the medium duty F series ( starting with the F 450 ) would it be easier for you to find the mix of features you need?  I know the commercial market typically requests different equipment than the light duty consumer market that the Raptors and stuff like that are marketed to.  I know they offer PTO and special wiring harnesses and different engines in that line so maybe if you went with a little heavier chassis you might be able to find the manual transmission you're looking for.   :shrug
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

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    Mikee5star

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    Re: Wife's new Truck
    « Reply #34 on: January 02, 2020, 06:40:05 pm »
    If you went to the medium duty F series ( starting with the F 450 ) would it be easier for you to find the mix of features you need?  I know the commercial market typically requests different equipment than the light duty consumer market that the Raptors and stuff like that are marketed to.  I know they offer PTO and special wiring harnesses and different engines in that line so maybe if you went with a little heavier chassis you might be able to find the manual transmission you're looking for.   :shrug

    In Fords you have to go to a F650 or 700 to get to a "medium" duty truck.  Then you get lots of different choices but generally 4x4 is not one of them.  F450, and F550 are basically a F350 dually with lower gears in the differentials and options for longer wheel length.  Transmissions are the same IIRC. Frames are beefed up some but lots of the parts interchange.  Kodiak is the GM medium duty and they use Allison's.  Most of these size trucks are fleet owned and the newer autos are way down on maintenance, so clutches are going fast.   Big thing to watch out for is if you go over 26,000lbs GVRW then you need to have a commercial drivers license in some states.  In AK as long as it is not for hire, you can drive whatever you want. 

    I have a 10,000 lb tow capacity, about 2000lbs of payload, and get 19mpg out of my '18 F150.  If it had a 8' bed and a manual it would be ideal, but I get 95% of what I want.  I would lose driveability, mileage, and tow capacity if I had a manual.  3.5 eco boost has 375 horse power, 475 ft lbs of torque, and gets great mileage.  I can't think of another engine that can do that.  Newish 6.7l Ford diesel is 435 horse power and 975 ft lbs of torque in front of a 10 speed auto.  I think it is rated for 35,000 lbs of towing in the F350 dually.

    Auto transmission are becoming more common in semi's.  Also I don't want to supply the company with a truck.  And due to the "heavy" duty nature of these trucks the gear ratios are low so the mileage sucks.  I had a 1997 Super Duty which was what Ford called the F450 before it was F450.  Regular cab, 7.3l turbo, 5 speed, with a 8' wide by 12' long flat bed.  It was 2wd with .430 gears which meant that at 55 mph you were turning almost 2500 rpms and that meant about 12 mpg. 

    At this point automatics are standard.  I will have to buy or build a classic vehicle if I want to bang my own gears.  Still looking for a classic pick up to build as a farm truck for the wife to drive to the farmers market.  Think I want to go Studebaker for that one.  It will be a summer only truck so 2wd is fine and it will run to town and back with produce to sell only.  I have my Toyota that I want to fix up as my "Toy".  I need to get the front axles fixed so that I can use it as a back up even in the winter.   I would be driving it now, but you can't go over 35 with the hubs locked in.  There is only 197,000 miles on the 22RE.
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    coelacanth

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    Re: Wife's new Truck
    « Reply #35 on: January 03, 2020, 01:01:36 am »
     :thumbup1  Got it.  And you're right - TANSTAAFL - re: big engines and big gears and fuel mileage. 
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    Mikee5star

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    Re: Wife's new Truck
    « Reply #36 on: January 25, 2020, 05:14:46 pm »
    So update time.  My wife went up and got my truck from the dealership on Thursday, 1/9.  Dropped her truck off, then we went up Mon 1/13, picked her truck up and I got my truck back.  If you want to appreciate your new vehicle, go drive a 30 year vehicle for three weeks.  So far the issue has not re-occurred.  In the two weeks it has been back the weather has been clear and cold, below 15F on average.  I think the temp has got over 20F 3 times in the last two weeks.  It snowed an inch or so and I let the truck run and melted the snow rather than sweeping it.  No freezing door latches so far.

    So that appears to be the fix, at least until we get lots of rain again,  put the truck in a heated shop for about 10 days with the interior door panels removed.  The water redirection and new sealing around the latches seems to work for smaller amounts of precipitation.  We don't usually get larger amounts of winter precipitation unless the temps are between 20F-40F, so I will know more later.

    For all my b____in and moaning I continue to be very pleased with my truck.  For the money, under $40,000, I don't think you can find a better do all vehicle. 

    All that said, I think that I will look at cargo vans again.  Now that Ford is making the Transit with all wheel drive, there is an option other than the Sprinter for a AWD van with out going to a Quigley conversion van. And maybe Chevrolet will bring back the Express AWD.  But they all start about $45,000.
    Alaska

    coelacanth

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    Re: Wife's new Truck
    « Reply #37 on: January 25, 2020, 09:10:03 pm »
    Glad things are working out so far.   :thumbup1
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

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