WeTheArmed.com

General Topics => R & R => Automotive => Topic started by: Nightcrawler on April 22, 2016, 12:44:30 pm

Title: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: Nightcrawler on April 22, 2016, 12:44:30 pm
Jeeps, yes or no? Talking older used ones here, anywhere from eighty to a hundred and twenty thousand miles on them. Would be a daily driver/commuter and occasional road tripper.

I have friends who swear by Jeeps, and friends who swear they're junk. So what's the real story? Good models/years? Models/years to avoid?

Do they get crappy gas mileage? Are they maintenance pits? I don't mind a little oil leak here or there, but I have neither the skill nor the time to be turning wrenches and rebuilding components just to keep my car running. Reliability is paramount for me.

What do you guys think?

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: Grant on April 22, 2016, 01:07:03 pm
  From what I know of them, they're very reliable and long-lasting and easy to work on.........However the ability and willingness to do the latter is needed for the first two.

  They last forever, reliable and rugged.....but do require maintenance.  And to get those long milages, it requires wrenching.

   
Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: sqlbullet on April 22, 2016, 01:09:37 pm
Headlines like this:  J.D. Power reliability ratings ... Jeep among the worst... (https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/jd-power-reliability-ratings-drop-jeep-among-the-worst-lexus-best-021214.html)

Make me think that Jeeps don't go with this:

Reliability is paramount for me.

I will add that if you look at the guys that swear by Jeep reliability they usually have an impressive mobile toolkit, often that includes a welder, in their Jeep.
Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: Grant on April 22, 2016, 02:01:56 pm
Headlines like this:  J.D. Power reliability ratings ... Jeep among the worst... (https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/jd-power-reliability-ratings-drop-jeep-among-the-worst-lexus-best-021214.html)

Make me think that Jeeps don't go with this:

I will add that if you look at the guys that swear by Jeep reliability they usually have an impressive mobile toolkit, often that includes a welder, in their Jeep.

I'll say that "reliability" is looked at in two ways:

#1.   putting say 50K miles on between any problem but taking it to a repair shop for a major job.
#2.  Putting 10K miles on between problems but being able to fix it yourself, quickly, easily for 1/2 the cost of the above.

  If you were going to fix it yourself and had the time and ability: Yes, a Jeep is reliable.
Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: Nightcrawler on April 22, 2016, 02:16:35 pm
A vehicle that has a problem that needs mechanical repair every 10,000 miles is not reliable no matter how you rationalize it. You still end up paying a lot more, even if the job costs half as much, because you're having problems 5x as frequently.

Maybe I should just look at Hondas, then?



Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: MTK20 on April 22, 2016, 02:21:33 pm
A vehicle that has a problem that needs mechanical repair every 10,000 miles is not reliable no matter how you rationalize it. You still end up paying a lot more, even if the job costs half as much, because you're having problems 5x as frequently.

Maybe I should just look at Hondas, then?



Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

Yes, or Toyota.
Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: booksmart on April 22, 2016, 02:29:18 pm
I'll put in a quiet word for Subarus, too... My Forester has been a great car, with no issues and more space than it looks.  Added bonus: it can go faster than I'm comfortable driving it.
Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: Grant on April 22, 2016, 02:41:57 pm
A vehicle that has a problem that needs mechanical repair every 10,000 miles is not reliable no matter how you rationalize it. You still end up paying a lot more, even if the job costs half as much, because you're having problems 5x as frequently.

Maybe I should just look at Hondas, then?

Depends on what you mean.    I'm including things like U-joints,etc. that are maybe....$20?  for one on like on of our 3/4T pickups.      No other $$$ put into if if you were doing it yourself.       I can work on a '90 dodge 3/4T work pickup of ours 10X easier than the new 2012 ford.   The ford sees less repair, but when it does, it's one repair costs more than 10 of our self-fixes on the '90.     Part-to-part comparison, starter,etc. are 2-3X as expensive as the older more simple vehicle.

  For get-in-and-go, probably not what you're looking for.
Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: Raptor on April 22, 2016, 03:52:33 pm
Maybe I should just look at Hondas, then?

Abso-freakin'-loutely. Honda is the one brand my family has never ever had a problem with. Every single Honda we've bought has been 100% dead-nuts reliable.
Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: Adskii on April 22, 2016, 03:55:39 pm
Subies suffer from poor mileage like jeeps. Not to mention there were years where they (the jeeps) were relatively gutless for all those expensive miles.

That's not to say don't get it if it is what you love. My personal road going vice are Saabs... with all their flaws they are fun, but not what I would recommend to someone I liked.

It depends on where you are, Hondas and Toyotas are good, but not worth what most people ask for them in Utah. They just aren't.

The truth is cars are getting better in general, I don't automatically turn my nose up at ford cars anymore (that Volvo infusion was one of the best things that happened to them).
Someday I might buy another dodge, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.

Please note my observations (rantings) are purely based on cars. I have no experience with trucks as I've never owned one or wanted one.

Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: booksmart on April 22, 2016, 04:25:07 pm
Subies suffer from poor mileage like jeeps. Not to mention there were years where they (the jeeps) were relatively gutless for all those expensive miles.

Yeah, at 26mpg (day-to-day average), it could be better, but it could be a lot worse.  I also liked that I could get it as a manual.
Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: sarge712 on April 22, 2016, 07:55:27 pm
I really wanted another Jeep but my last one was always in need of some repair or another. Plus I needed more room and cargo space for hauling firewood, etc. I settled on another Toyota T-100. My last T-100 was a gem with 200k and I sold it to a friend. My wife put 280K on her last Toyota van with not a problem and bought a second last year. Dad has had at least two Toyotas, a Tundra and a 4Runner, With a final mileage of 250k and 300k, respectively, with nary a problem.
Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: GeorgeHill on April 22, 2016, 08:17:14 pm
If you want Reliability - CHEVY.  My Chevys have given me the least number of problems and one of them had 300,000 miles on it.
Drove it until literally the doors fell off. 
Seriously... Hinge pin came out and everything. But even then, that was an easy fix.
Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: louie the lumberjack on April 22, 2016, 08:42:17 pm
I assume you are referring to the Wrangler?  If so I have no direct experience other than a CJ my dad drove.

Otherwise I had a Patriot (think of it as a gutless Subaru) that I sold to a younger relative at170k and its still going.  Standard maintenaince only and I wasnt particularly kind to it driving it around the CO front range.  My kids outgrew the backseat so I got an upgrade.

This hasn't seen as much time on dirt but I only bought it last summer.  I've put around 15k on it (70k) in total, have not regretted it yet.  It shares an engine with the Wrangler and I get 23mpg mixed.

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o772/lbach82/image_zpsef5rqbog.jpeg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/lbach82/media/image_zpsef5rqbog.jpeg.html)

A vehicle is like any other peice of gear, unless its a total POS if you take care of it it'll take care of you.  :shrug

louie the lumberjack
Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: Nightcrawler on April 22, 2016, 08:51:23 pm
I would like a Tacoma or a 4 Runner. But they hold their value so well that one with only a hundred thousand miles or so on it is out of my price range.

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: Bud on April 22, 2016, 10:29:07 pm
I am a confirmed Jeep person and by Jeep, I mean Wrangler

My current:

(http://www.hartons.org/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/IMG_1139.JPG)
Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: Mikee5star on April 23, 2016, 01:43:54 am
I think that all vehicles are better across the board than thirty years ago, even twenty years ago.  Not just that they have lots more crap creature comforts in them, but that the engines, suspension, and especially auto transmissions are lots better.  That said I am somewhat pissed that I can't hardly find a manual transmission in a truck anymore.

I would like a Tacoma or a 4 Runner. But they hold their value so well that one with only a hundred thousand miles or so on it is out of my price range.

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
   

This is why I have a 29 year old 4Runner with 190,000 miles on it.  Also why it is my toy truck and sitting waiting for me to have the time to tinker with it to get it back on the road.  We just got the Wife a '94 Toyota pickup, 2 weeks ago, 190,000ish on the truck, 80-90,000ish on the replacement 3.0l v6, ODO and speedometer were not hooked up when the engine and gauge cluster swap was done so mileage is iffy.  Not my favorite Toyota engine, mileage is reported to not be great, but it has nice power.  We were the first to look at it, and as it was priced $2-3000 under our local average for Toyota's we grabbed it.

If you don't need a SUV or Truck, and your man card can stand it, get a car.  I am thinking about a mini-van for my next daily driver.  Plenty of room for my junk, decent mileage and comfortable. 

 


Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: JesseL on April 25, 2016, 01:03:20 pm
Personally, I'm not a fan of most of Jeep's offerings. I'd be okay with an old CJ that's stone-axe-simple to work on, or something brand new and still under warranty.

Anything else I'll avoid - and that even includes the Cherokee in my driveway when I can help it.

Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: GeorgeHill on April 25, 2016, 08:56:36 pm
With Wranglers - in the West they hold their value just as much as a Toyota Tacoma or 4Runner.  Affordable Wranglers?  There out there, but they are so old and run down you'll be able to see the ground beneath your feet.
Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: coelacanth on April 25, 2016, 09:41:16 pm
Agreed.  The Older Jeep CJ's are stone axe reliable and the V-8 engines give them plenty of useable power but they are pretty well used up at this point and the ones you find tend to be junk or ground-up restorations that go for big bucks.  Gas mileage is pretty feeble compared to newer offerings.  All of them - regardless of age have rust through problems if you live in an area where that is problematic. 

If you are a serious off road driver or trail crawler there is nothing better to start with as your basic vehicle but expect to spend considerable money upgrading stock components and keeping the whole thing running long term.  Reliability is, as always, in the eye of the beholder.  :hmm

I have taken a 2004 Ford F-150 SuperCrew 4x4 all over most of Arizona ( on and off road ) since it was new and it has been spectacularly reliable if not particularly fuel efficient ( 15 mpg city and 18 mpg highway ).  Aside from a couple of warranty repairs ( engine mount and A/C compressor ) my most aggravating maintenance problem has been the three power window regulators that have failed over time.  Properly maintained ( dealer serviced at recommended intervals ) and driven sanely, it has never been bested by our terrain and operating conditions.

That said, when it became time to replace Mrs. c's Ford Escape, we settled on a Toyota Tundra Double Cab 4x4 with the 4.8 engine and an automatic transmission.  It was about $6000 less than a comparable Ford F-150 and has done about 99% of what my 2004 Ford is capable of on a real world basis.  I am increasingly fond of this truck as a basic workhorse.  The dealer service interface has been superior to my experience with Ford over the years as they appear 100% committed to customer satisfaction regardless the situation.  The truck itself is a logical extension of the older T-100 series of Toyota trucks.   My neighbor has a 1999 T - 100 and wouldn't part with it short of a ransom demand for one of his children.  They are originally from Utah and have used that truck since new all over the high mountains, snowfields and deserts of that magnificent state.  In short, Toyota seems to have their sh*t together re: the full sized truck market.

Back to the original topic - buy a Jeep if you must.  Enjoy it if you can.  Sell it if you are able.  They are not what they once were.   
Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: TimGerber on April 26, 2016, 08:08:11 am
I have had 2 Grand Cherokees over the years.  Both had V8 engines. The engine sound is great in the cab at idle.  Love those V8s.  4WD all the time.  Terrible gas mileage, excellent acceleration, excellent comfort level, both were very reliable. Well over 100,000 on both.  I would love to get the SRT version from a few years ago.  I don't take them off road very often as the GC in standard form is really just a glorified station wagon, but the 4WD is nice with occasional heavy snow in WI.

TimG
Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: Bud on May 07, 2016, 10:41:29 am
Moving from moderately affected to severely afflicted mid life crisis, I have decided to start building my 2015 Wrangler JKU into an expedition vehicle:

(http://www.hartons.org/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/winch.JPG)

This is about $4500 in; a Kargo Master Congo roof rack, a two inch lift, a Smittybilt front bumper and a Warn 10K winch, a trailer brake controller with seven [pin plug and a door post mounted four switch electronic connection for controlling lights.

I usually begin the next modification by starting a very mild whine which builds up to a fever pitch at about four weeks at which point she throws up her hands and says, "I don't care, do whatever you want". That campaign starts........NOW! or actually as soon as she has her coffee because even I know not to enrage her before coffee.

I am not ready for tires and rims yet as I only have about 25K on this set so I am considering a rear bumper with storage rack (fuel cans, recovery tools) fender flares or lights on all four sides.

The last is not an invitation for the usual "flashlight derailment" although i have recently found a rather nice TrustFire 2800 triple X-ML Cree light that can almost start fires
Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: Mississippi556 on May 09, 2016, 05:16:45 pm
Jeep as off-road, expedition, hunting, vehicle, absolutely!

As daily driver -- uh, no.

Here is my little '77 CJ-5.  Modestly tricked out, with 4" lift, 36" Super Swampers, trick rear shackles, rear fuel, water and tire rack, modified Ford 1 ton T-18 transmission with double low first gear, lockers, warmed over 6 cyl. with Weber carb, Offy intake manifold and long tube headers, Warn 8,000 lb. winch and a few other goodies.  Headlights are 100 watt Euro spec motorcycle lights.

Worth its weight in gold in the woods.  Easy to work on.  Totally unfit as a daily driver, though.
Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: coelacanth on May 10, 2016, 12:24:12 am
 :thumbup1   I like the older CJ's like yours but as I pointed out previously, finding one that is still in decent shape is nearly impossible unless it has been fairly extensively restored and/or modified. 
Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: Plebian on May 10, 2016, 12:56:05 am
My friends have had good luck with Jeeps of various sorts on road and off. I have some sort of magical effect that if I ride or drive one it breaks down on me. Each time I have hopped in one it has broken down in under an hour.

I think it is some sort of Nightcrawler effect I possess, but it is only towards Jeeps.
Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: Mississippi556 on May 10, 2016, 05:50:22 pm
Don't stand up in an old CJ.  You are likely to fall through the rusted out floorboard, held in place only by the paint.  Ask me why I know.  You can fix that with new welded in plates.  There are water drain holes in the floor.  Very handy for off-road, but very prone to rusting even earlier than everything else!
Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: Outbreak on May 20, 2016, 09:05:44 am
:thumbup1   I like the older CJ's like yours but as I pointed out previously, finding one that is still in decent shape is nearly impossible unless it has been fairly extensively restored and/or modified.

Watching craigslist locally, I've found several unmolested CJ-7's, and if I didn't like being married so much I would have made some offers.
Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: GeorgeHill on May 20, 2016, 02:15:17 pm
Old CJ-7... New Body tub, New Crate Motor installed, new wiring harness...
That would be the golden ticket.
Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: JesseL on May 20, 2016, 10:31:06 pm
Old CJ-7... New Body tub, New Crate Motor installed, new wiring harness...
That would be the golden ticket.

For $5000 more you could get a newly manufactured frame, transmission, and axles and skip the old CJ-7 part.
Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: GeorgeHill on May 21, 2016, 01:54:24 am
For $5000 more you could get a newly manufactured frame, transmission, and axles and skip the old CJ-7 part.
:hmm

Like how you can build a Glock with ZERO Glock parts... You could build a whole new Jeep with no Jeep parts.

 :hmm

"Boys, go clean the garage out!"
Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: booksmart on May 21, 2016, 08:42:32 am
Dude, it'd be a rolling money pit.
Title: Re: Jeeps: yes or no?
Post by: Avenger29 on June 11, 2016, 09:05:01 pm
The new Wranglers are nice, but pricey, and they hold their value as well (if not better) than a Tacoma or a diesel.

Looked at them at the local dealerships but you weren't going home with anything they had for under 33k new, and used isn't really much cheaper around here. Very popular, but more than I could spend. I didn't like the idea of financing one for 7 years so I could "afford" the payment.

You can still get them with manuals or auto and I hear the new 3.6L V6 is a good engine. I still think they are cool if you have the means, I just don't.

The craigslist crowd still wants ridiculous money for these things even when old and beat to s___.