Author Topic: Where is the point of no return? (Read 18788 times)

luke213(adamsholsters) · « **Reply #25 on:** January 10, 2021, 06:41:33 pm »

One thing to note about this whole thing, and I'm not saying it's credible but it's been reported. Put on your tin foil hat a little here;)

What if the goal wasn't just to stir the pot and the goal was to get the tech from inside, hard drives etc. If that's the case then they succeeded, not that it changes the outcome at this point. But I've seen lots of reports that tech went missing particularly from Pelosi etc. What else we saw could very well be the diversion of sorts, and who knows what will come down the road as a result.

Now I'm not taking a position on the whole thing as a whole, I just found that fact rather interesting. And as a whole it's hard to make a lot of sense of the things that happened etc.

As far as a line etc, Well I've talked about that in the past and my opinion hasn't changed but I also have zero idea how to put this particular train back on the tracks. And I haven't seen any indication that the majority of the country is willing to either. So bit pessimistic but I don't see a way off the path we're currently on.

WeTheArmed.com

Grognard · « **Reply #26 on:** January 11, 2021, 01:16:37 am »

I'm still just ....

Only the BBC reported that Trump told protesters:Go Home x3Go in Peace x2election was fraudulent x1.
"but he instigated the riot" .. phfttttt.
OTOH: if this was supposed to be the "great revolution" they did a s___ty job of communicating and organizing it, much less executing it. Even the liberal activists are saying so.
I was not there. I was at home, working.I do have a couple who are friend of a friend who did go to the protest.They went to the primary site, did their protest activity, then followed the crowd to Capitol hill.On their side of the bldg, fences were up and cops watched as they did protest activity.But then they tell me, people came from the other side to tell that protestors were being allowed in...they followed the queue, found open doors, held by Cops.and they followed everyone else through a semi-guided tour of the Capitol, then left.This couple never knew they were part of an invasion until about an hour after leaving.
so really: I still don't know what to think, other than 3/4 of the country has been conned to the point of disbelief.

stephendutton · « **Reply #27 on:** January 11, 2021, 05:34:51 am »

Quote from: luke213(adamsholsters) on January 10, 2021, 06:41:33 pm

One thing to note about this whole thing, and I'm not saying it's credible but it's been reported. Put on your tin foil hat a little here;)

What if the goal wasn't just to stir the pot and the goal was to get the tech from inside, hard drives etc. If that's the case then they succeeded, not that it changes the outcome at this point. But I've seen lots of reports that tech went missing particularly from Pelosi etc. What else we saw could very well be the diversion of sorts, and who knows what will come down the road as a result.

Now I'm not taking a position on the whole thing as a whole, I just found that fact rather interesting. And as a whole it's hard to make a lot of sense of the things that happened etc.

As far as a line etc, Well I've talked about that in the past and my opinion hasn't changed but I also have zero idea how to put this particular train back on the tracks. And I haven't seen any indication that the majority of the country is willing to either. So bit pessimistic but I don't see a way off the path we're currently on.

I've heard this sort of thing elsewhere with some people wondering whether Nancy Pelosi's laptop could have been accessed. Nothing concrete of course. All I will say is that if Twitter, Facebook and all the other social media platforms that I have banned for failing to meet my community guidelines are going to be kicking people off then private forums may become more popular again.

lesptr · « **Reply #28 on:** January 11, 2021, 01:18:31 pm »

Quote from: booksmart on January 08, 2021, 11:08:46 am

The guy in the fur hat, with the buffalo horns? *nods* I've seen multiple photos of him at Trump rallies, with various QAnon posters.

I *told* you you needed to pay attention to that BS.

He’s also been seen with BLM and antifa shenanigans.

You should pay attention as well.

booksmart · « **Reply #29 on:** January 11, 2021, 03:09:14 pm »

Quote from: lesptr on January 11, 2021, 01:18:31 pm

He’s also been seen with BLM and antifa shenanigans.

You should pay attention as well.

He isn't Antifa; he's proudly QAnon affiliated. There're shots of him mugging with Giuliani (in a suit and tie, so he does know how to clean up

).

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/giuliani-jake-angeli-capitol-riot/

lesptr · « **Reply #30 on:** January 11, 2021, 03:30:47 pm »

Quote from: booksmart on January 11, 2021, 03:09:14 pm

He isn't Antifa; he's proudly QAnon affiliated. There're shots of him mugging with Giuliani (in a suit and tie, so he does know how to clean up ).

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/giuliani-jake-angeli-capitol-riot/

For someone who is really impressed with himself, I can’t believe you use snopes as a source to quote.

Plebian · « **Reply #31 on:** January 11, 2021, 04:37:51 pm »

Many times real whackadoos switch sides on issues a ton. They are just looking for a cause to be whackadoos most times and do not really care about the reasons.

booksmart · « **Reply #32 on:** January 11, 2021, 05:49:40 pm »

Quote from: lesptr on January 11, 2021, 03:30:47 pm

For someone who is really impressed with himself, I can’t believe you use snopes as a source to quote.

*Sigh* Just 'cuz it's snopes doesn't mean it's wrong...

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-protester-capitol-antifa-qa/fact-check-man-with-painted-face-wearing-fur-and-horns-rallied-for-trump-and-qanon-not-antifa-or-blm-idUSKBN29C0BP

https://gvwire.com/2021/01/07/longtime-arizona-qanon-supporter-in-horned-helmet-joins-storming-of-u-s-capitol/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/jake-angeli-qanon-shaman-stormed-capitol-b1784091.html

coelacanth · « **Reply #33 on:** January 12, 2021, 12:09:50 am »

I suppose its to be expected that a guy who dresses like he's trying out for a "Village People" redux and never saw a camera he didn't try to get in front of is going to become the public face of the group of visitors to the capitol building. Still, I wonder why none of the people who just calmly walked into the building while the capitol police held the doors open for them were talked to. I guess those people aren't exciting enough visually and don't fit the narrative of " the crazed mob attacking the U.S. Capitol".

Juxtaposed against the rioting, looting, arson, and destruction of public and private property for most of the last year, the events in Washington, D.C. on January 6th seem relatively tame. One might even venture to say the day was "mostly peaceful" to borrow a phrase from the news readers describing such events in Minneapolis or Portland or Chicago or Seattle. If the rioting in Washington, D.C. earlier this year wasn't really that big a deal then why is this day so important to the talking heads?

Consider it a rhetorical question. I think I understand the situation but that's a whole 'nother thread.

ksuguy · « **Reply #34 on:** January 12, 2021, 01:13:38 am »

Buffalo guy just seems like an attention whore that likes to cosplay at protests. It's his "thing".

booksmart · « **Reply #35 on:** January 12, 2021, 09:47:51 am »

Quote from: coelacanth on January 12, 2021, 12:09:50 am

I suppose its to be expected that a guy who dresses like he's trying out for a "Village People" redux and never saw a camera he didn't try to get in front of is going to become the public face of the group of visitors to the capitol building. Still, I wonder why none of the people who just calmly walked into the building while the capitol police held the doors open for them were talked to. I guess those people aren't exciting enough visually and don't fit the narrative of " the crazed mob attacking the U.S. Capitol".

Juxtaposed against the rioting, looting, arson, and destruction of public and private property for most of the last year, the events in Washington, D.C. on January 6th seem relatively tame. One might even venture to say the day was "mostly peaceful" to borrow a phrase from the news readers describing such events in Minneapolis or Portland or Chicago or Seattle. If the rioting in Washington, D.C. earlier this year wasn't really that big a deal then why is this day so important to the talking heads? Consider it a rhetorical question. I think I understand the situation but that's a whole 'nother thread.

They've got bigger fish to fry than people who just went sightseeing. If the person came in, looked around, checked out some of the paintings, and walked out, they're not going to be nearly as interested in them as the people wandering around with zip ties, s___ting on the statues, and stealing stuff.

Chief45 · « **Reply #36 on:** January 12, 2021, 09:54:10 am »

From backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/please-read/

*************************
Shutdown of conservative voices in the various media is, if anything, scarier than the way a pro-Trump protest went downhill in the Capitol the other day.

We learned yesterday that GoDaddy had shut down the popular gun forum AR15.com, citing advocacy for violence.

Regular visitors here know that in the many years this blog has existed, I have welcomed dissenting voices and very rarely deleted comments or banned commentators. It is likewise extremely rare for me to close comments.

I have had to close comments, proactively, on the blog post immediately preceding this one.

Yes, the incoming administration has promised Draconian laws that will severely and outrageously impact the law-abiding gun owners w ho come here. I can say with some authority that gun owners’ civil rights forces with a long history of success in the legal arena will challenge such legislation in court.

The muffling of conservative voices will likewise be challenged in court.

I am going to ask our readers to avoid any commentary – here, or in any other form of media – advocating violence, shooting authorities or hanging elected officials, or anything else of the kind. Having carried a badge for 43 years I can assure you that technology developed for catching white collar criminals, child pornographers, etc. will be applied to forum posts, Twitter tweets, and the like. Your mom was right: anything you post on the Internet or in the Twitterverse – or here – may as well have been put on a billboard on the highway. It can and will be used against you to “make an example of you.”

All y’all are guests here, and all of us including me are guests of the Duffy family and the Backwoods Home group. As our history here shows, they and I support free speech. That said, I am not going to see them shut down because some drooling, bloodthirsty troglodyte posted advocacy of murder or any other form of non-self-defense violence here.

So, please, think before you post here, or anywhere else. The Capitol incident did no good whatsoever in my opinion for the credibility of the gun owners’ civil rights movement. The FBI is now warning us of violent, armed demonstrations scheduled at the Capitol again, and at State Houses around the nation. I don’t give legal advice, just practical advice, but I’ll tell you this.

Violence is almost certain to erupt at such gatherings, and whichever side starts it someone will blame the law-abiding gun owners. There are prosecutors elected with money from the left who will seek to make examples of law abiding people with guns who get caught up in such.

Going to such an event voluntarily, knowing it could erupt in lethal violence, could shred the “mantle of innocence” that is essential to a successful self-defense plea. Going to such a demonstration at all strikes me as being stupid. Going armed seems even more stupid, and going visibly armed would be more stupid yet.
***************************

booksmart · « **Reply #37 on:** January 12, 2021, 10:07:58 am »

Quote from: ksuguy on January 12, 2021, 01:13:38 am

Buffalo guy just seems like an attention whore that likes to cosplay at protests. It's his "thing".

The fact that y'all keep trying to pawn your weirdos off on another group amuses me to no end. "He's not one of ours!" Yeah, yeah, he is.

I at least try to explain ours. I may not understand them, or agree with them, but I try to explain 'em.

Doug Wojtowicz · « **Reply #38 on:** January 12, 2021, 03:38:04 pm »

Complaining about the Free Market closing out Parler and shutting down people's speech, but y'all really glad to help bakeries NOT make cakes for gay weddings.

Which is a more constitutional crisis, boys getting married or a President distributing lies and misinformation and endorsing deadly QAnon bull carp?

booksmart · « **Reply #39 on:** January 12, 2021, 03:48:54 pm »

I made that point to my Mom last night.

To be intellectually consistent, a liberal would believe that you can force a baker to make a cake for a gay couple, and for Facebook to allow conservative views. But a conservative would allow neither.

In case you're wondering, I believe Facebook should be carrying Conservative views, but I draw the line at calls for violence (from either party).

BTW, welcome back, Doug.

Doug Wojtowicz · « **Reply #40 on:** January 12, 2021, 04:03:42 pm »

Quote from: coelacanth on January 12, 2021, 12:09:50 am

Juxtaposed against the rioting, looting, arson, and destruction of public and private property for most of the last year, the events in Washington, D.C. on January 6th seem relatively tame.

As far as I know, Antifa/BLM never caused a fatality among the police, as what happened with Officer Brian Sicknick.

https://www.fox5dc.com/video/889048

And of course, the FBI has most assuredly traced much of the arson back to the Proud Boys.

https://www.wbaltv.com/article/there-is-no-evidence-that-suggests-antifa-was-a-part-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/35145385

Doug Wojtowicz · « **Reply #41 on:** January 12, 2021, 04:04:48 pm »

I came to see just how things were here. At least a couple people might call me a Communist, even if I did present evidence from a Fox news affiliate.

Grognard · « **Reply #42 on:** January 13, 2021, 11:35:58 am »

I welcome differing perspective and opinion; even from those espousing a failed political ideology and ruinous economic system.

Doug Wojtowicz · « **Reply #43 on:** January 13, 2021, 12:21:46 pm »

Quote from: Grognard on January 13, 2021, 11:35:58 am

I welcome differing perspective and opinion; even from those espousing a failed political ideology and ruinous economic system.

When I say some folks here consider me a Communist, they might feel that they're right, but employee pay should rise at the same rate as CEO/Corporate officer pay. Y'all got money to get a yacht, y'all can pay the people that bust their asses enough to make payments on a new car or buy a nice AR.

This is the kind of thing that gets me labelled Communist. People being paid for their labor.

Plebian · « **Reply #44 on:** January 13, 2021, 04:02:43 pm »

Quote from: Doug Wojtowicz on January 13, 2021, 12:21:46 pm

When I say some folks here consider me a Communist, they might feel that they're right, but employee pay should rise at the same rate as CEO/Corporate officer pay. Y'all got money to get a yacht, y'all can pay the people that bust their asses enough to make payments on a new car or buy a nice AR.

This is the kind of thing that gets me labelled Communist. People being paid for their labor.

This is not meant to be rhetorical or judging this comment without merit, but I have asked this to a number of individuals expressing these type of views(all the way up to economics professors).

How do we determine what is 'fair' pay for an individuals labor?

I know the free market way of determining value by supply and demand, but how else would we determine this value? Is there anyway to set a 'fair' pay without someone making an arbitrary decision?

RetroGrouch · « **Reply #45 on:** January 13, 2021, 04:40:33 pm »

So a suicide 3 days after the fact is a direct result? It was also three days after Biden was confirmed as President Elect.

How many cops committed suicide this past summer in cities that had riots and burned? Can they all be laid at the feet of BLM/Antifa/Democrats?

coelacanth · « **Reply #46 on:** January 13, 2021, 10:51:40 pm »

Quote from: Plebian on January 13, 2021, 04:02:43 pm

This is not meant to be rhetorical or judging this comment without merit, but I have asked this to a number of individuals expressing these type of views(all the way up to economics professors).

How do we determine what is 'fair' pay for an individuals labor?

I know the free market way of determining value by supply and demand, but how else would we determine this value? Is there anyway to set a 'fair' pay without someone making an arbitrary decision?

That does seem to be the crux of the matter.

Plebian · « **Reply #47 on:** January 14, 2021, 03:05:44 am »

Quote from: coelacanth on January 13, 2021, 10:51:40 pm

That does seem to be the crux of the matter.

It seems to be a non-trivial thing to answer. I am very honestly asking here, and I have yet to have someone actually answer it without using market forces or an arbitrary assignment of value.

Maestro · « **Reply #48 on:** January 14, 2021, 05:32:31 am »

I'm so glad I logged into WTH today. Reading these posts since the 6th is like a microcosm of the state of the US, with all the back and forth of ideas and things. That said.

In response to some of the other comments,

Quote from: Doug Wojtowicz on January 12, 2021, 04:03:42 pm

As far as I know, Antifa/BLM never caused a fatality among the police, as what happened with Officer Brian Sicknick.

a member of BLM killed 5 cops in Dallas in 2016, ANTIFA member Michael Reinoehl killed a Pro-Trump activist during the Portland protests, and then there is this...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/americans-killed-protests-political-unrest-acled

which states that at least 25 more people were killed during the protests and riots. (I didn't fact check that by the way)

In regards to "Where is the point of no return?" There isn't one. Not anymore. And it's mostly because the folks in the gun community all think that in the event of revolution they are all John Connor, nobody is the private killed in the opening scene.

Personally, even if I was so inclined, I'm too old, too married, and too damn fat to join in on shenanigans!

booksmart · « **Reply #49 on:** January 14, 2021, 11:10:28 am »

Quote from: coelacanth on January 13, 2021, 10:51:40 pm

That does seem to be the crux of the matter.

I think we can safely say that this ain't working to everyone's benefit: