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Author Topic: Florida's first attempt at "assault rifle" laws:  (Read 4032 times)

RMc

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Florida's first attempt at "assault rifle" laws:
« on: February 06, 2019, 10:30:18 pm »
In 1893, "...the Florida legislature enacted a new gun control law. It required a license to carry or possess ‘‘a pistol, Winchester rifle or other repeating rifle.’’                       

Interesting article that focuses on the historical roots gun control laws.

The Racist Influence on Gun Control Laws
David Kopel

https://www.theepochtimes.com/the-racist-influence-on-gun-control-laws_2787186.html

    :coffee
Alabama

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    coelacanth

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    Re: Florida's first attempt at "assault rifle" laws:
    « Reply #1 on: February 07, 2019, 12:02:17 am »
    Yup.  Gun control laws have always been used as a means of subjugating people with the means and the will to resist.  No different today.   :coffee
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

                                                   Benjamin Franklin

    Mississippi556

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    Re: Florida's first attempt at "assault rifle" laws:
    « Reply #2 on: February 07, 2019, 03:12:42 pm »
    Law abiding gun owners are the new underclass, a minority subject to discrimination.   But, because of 2A we are still a "protected class" for Constitutional law purposes.  Let's not forget that.  The NRA understands this. 

    We may soon have to employ the same methods of MLK and other great civil rights leaders to protect those rights.   I'm already engaging in a personal form of boycotting of anti-2A businesses, when possible.  While the claim is in dispute as to who is the "oldest", the NRA is certainly one of the oldest and most successful civil rights organizations in the US.  Its lobbying and political efforts may no longer be enough to stem the tide.  We may need to step our of our "let others do it" comfort zone and get personally actively involved.

    We have a very pro 2A legislature in my home state, but the tide may be turning with Congress in Washington and with the federal courts in many parts of America. 
    « Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 03:23:21 pm by Mississippi556 »
    Mississippi"When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe"  Words of Jesus, Luke 11:21 (ESV).

    MTK20

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    Re: Florida's first attempt at "assault rifle" laws:
    « Reply #3 on: February 07, 2019, 03:19:55 pm »
    Law abiding gun owners are the new underclass, a minority subject to discrimination.   But, because of 2A we are still a "protected class" for Constitutional law purposes.  Let's not forget that.  The NRA understands this.  We may soon have to employ the same methods of MLK and other great civil rights leaders to protect those rights.   I'm already engaging in a personal form of boycotting of anti-2A businesses, when possible.

    What you stated is both horrible and accurate.

    I've heard from pro-gun individuals in the psych field, that the APA is trying to get CHL holders listed in the DSM due to carrying a handgun everyday "negatively impacting our quality of life". It boggles the mind, as even something as extreme as transgenders (which compose a percent of a percent of the population) are not seen as pathologically aberrant.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Mississippi556

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    Re: Florida's first attempt at "assault rifle" laws:
    « Reply #4 on: February 07, 2019, 03:28:02 pm »
    What you stated is both horrible and accurate.

    I've heard by pro gun individuals in the psych field, that the APA is trying to get CHL holders listed in the DSM due to carrying a handgun everyday "negatively impacting our quality of life". It boggles the mind, as even something as extreme as transgenders (which compose a percent of a percent of the population) are not seen as pathologically aberrant.

    Gee, to say that I said something both "horrible and naccurate" is perplexing.   Perhaps some additional context might help.  My computer crashed and had to be replaced.  I'm just getting back to some of my user groups after being away for several months.  But, this is a reply that certainly takes me by surprise.  Yes, it is accurate.  Horrible? In what sense?  Because of the consequences of its truth?
    « Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 03:40:02 pm by Mississippi556 »
    Mississippi"When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe"  Words of Jesus, Luke 11:21 (ESV).

    MTK20

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    Re: Florida's first attempt at "assault rifle" laws:
    « Reply #5 on: February 07, 2019, 04:30:42 pm »
    Gee, to say that I said something both "horrible and naccurate" is perplexing.   Perhaps some additional context might help.  My computer crashed and had to be replaced.  I'm just getting back to some of my user groups after being away for several months.  But, this is a reply that certainly takes me by surprise.  Yes, it is accurate.  Horrible? In what sense?  Because of the consequences of its truth?

    Gun owners are underclass citizens. That's true.

    Gun owners are underclass citizens. That sucks (is "horrible").


    Nothing to be alarmed by, the truth is often uncomfortable and "horrible", that's why so many try to avoid it. "Knowledge is preferable to ignorance. But it is better, by far, to embrace the hard truth, than a reassuring fable."  :cool

    Hope that cleared things up  :cool .
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Mississippi556

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    Re: Florida's first attempt at "assault rifle" laws:
    « Reply #6 on: February 08, 2019, 02:49:08 pm »
    Gun owners are underclass citizens. That's true.

    Gun owners are underclass citizens. That sucks (is "horrible").


    Nothing to be alarmed by, the truth is often uncomfortable and "horrible", that's why so many try to avoid it. "Knowledge is preferable to ignorance. But it is better, by far, to embrace the hard truth, than a reassuring fable."  :cool

    Hope that cleared things up  :cool .

    Thank you.  Understood.  Completely agree.   I know we might not be viewed by many in this country as somehow subject to protection for violation of our civil rights laws.  However, I've always viewed the Second Amendment as equally important to all other provisions in the Bill or Rights or in any subsequent amendment, such as the 14th Amendment.
    Mississippi"When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe"  Words of Jesus, Luke 11:21 (ESV).

    MTK20

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    Re: Florida's first attempt at "assault rifle" laws:
    « Reply #7 on: February 08, 2019, 03:17:53 pm »
    Thank you.  Understood.  Completely agree.   I know we might not be viewed by many in this country as somehow subject to protection for violation of our civil rights laws.  However, I've always viewed the Second Amendment as equally important to all other provisions in the Bill or Rights or in any subsequent amendment, such as the 14th Amendment.

    It's always been a line of observation for me: First off, is life worth protecting? Yes. Are there small or underrepresented demographics? Well, sure. Democrats state that minorities and women are under represented, but yet they are ignorant, they don't go far enough. Who is the smallest voice and the most under represented? Well, that's the individual. No one cares about the individual and yet anyone who feels that any government or organisation will act in the individuals best interest is sadly mistaken. This is why I also am very aware of the forefathers referring to the "tyranny of the majority", as democracy can be horribly tyrannical. For example we have 10 people and one issue for debate. Nine say "yes" and one says "no", seems fair right? Majority should always rule, right? Wrong. What if the issue is consent and sex? Never forget that gang rape is a democratic affair. It shows how the tyranny of the majority will trample the rights of the individual and even feel morally justified in doing so.

    Every person has the right to ensure their own safety and autonomy. Civilised people will respect these boundaries through verbal debate and votes at the ballot. Brutes and tyrants will stop at nothing, and this is why the civilised individual must be armed. It seems counterintuitive that the civilised and nonviolent society requires violent defense, but it is because of the threat of these means of defense that society is able to be civilised or nonviolent at all.

    Maybe my thoughts make sense, or maybe I'm just a politically uneducated, overly opinionated millennial  :shrug . I only do this politics stuff as a full time hobby after all, and my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it  ;) .
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    coelacanth

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    Re: Florida's first attempt at "assault rifle" laws:
    « Reply #8 on: February 08, 2019, 04:51:32 pm »
    Its all good, bro'.   :cool
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

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    Mississippi556

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    Re: Florida's first attempt at "assault rifle" laws:
    « Reply #9 on: February 18, 2019, 05:45:36 pm »
    It's always been a line of observation for me: First off, is life worth protecting? Yes. Are there small or underrepresented demographics? Well, sure. Democrats state that minorities and women are under represented, but yet they are ignorant, they don't go far enough. Who is the smallest voice and the most under represented? Well, that's the individual. No one cares about the individual and yet anyone who feels that any government or organisation will act in the individuals best interest is sadly mistaken. This is why I also am very aware of the forefathers referring to the "tyranny of the majority", as democracy can be horribly tyrannical. For example we have 10 people and one issue for debate. Nine say "yes" and one says "no", seems fair right? Majority should always rule, right? Wrong. What if the issue is consent and sex? Never forget that gang rape is a democratic affair. It shows how the tyranny of the majority will trample the rights of the individual and even feel morally justified in doing so.

    Every person has the right to ensure their own safety and autonomy. Civilised people will respect these boundaries through verbal debate and votes at the ballot. Brutes and tyrants will stop at nothing, and this is why the civilised individual must be armed. It seems counterintuitive that the civilised and nonviolent society requires violent defense, but it is because of the threat of these means of defense that society is able to be civilised or nonviolent at all.

    Maybe my thoughts make sense, or maybe I'm just a politically uneducated, overly opinionated millennial  :shrug . I only do this politics stuff as a full time hobby after all, and my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it  ;) .

    Indeed, it's all good.

    When it comes to the very real "tyranny of the majority" I'm reminded of the quote often attributed to Ben Franklin, but not verified:

    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
    Mississippi"When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe"  Words of Jesus, Luke 11:21 (ESV).

    Plebian

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    Re: Florida's first attempt at "assault rifle" laws:
    « Reply #10 on: February 18, 2019, 08:57:39 pm »
    It's always been a line of observation for me: First off, is life worth protecting? Yes. Are there small or underrepresented demographics? Well, sure. Democrats state that minorities and women are under represented, but yet they are ignorant, they don't go far enough. Who is the smallest voice and the most under represented? Well, that's the individual. No one cares about the individual and yet anyone who feels that any government or organisation will act in the individuals best interest is sadly mistaken. This is why I also am very aware of the forefathers referring to the "tyranny of the majority", as democracy can be horribly tyrannical. For example we have 10 people and one issue for debate. Nine say "yes" and one says "no", seems fair right? Majority should always rule, right? Wrong. What if the issue is consent and sex? Never forget that gang rape is a democratic affair. It shows how the tyranny of the majority will trample the rights of the individual and even feel morally justified in doing so.

    Every person has the right to ensure their own safety and autonomy. Civilised people will respect these boundaries through verbal debate and votes at the ballot. Brutes and tyrants will stop at nothing, and this is why the civilised individual must be armed. It seems counterintuitive that the civilised and nonviolent society requires violent defense, but it is because of the threat of these means of defense that society is able to be civilised or nonviolent at all.

    Maybe my thoughts make sense, or maybe I'm just a politically uneducated, overly opinionated millennial  :shrug . I only do this politics stuff as a full time hobby after all, and my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it  ;) .

    If you take that all power comes from violence, and if you wish to assume the individual has power. Then it only follows that the individual must be armed AND willing to do violence.

    Our system of governance is based on the individual vote and wielding institutional violence through that act of voting. If you wish to remove the individuals right to defense and the arms capable of such defense. You are wishing that individual to lose the power they wield. Their vote now means nothing.

    If you want some cookies from my cookie jar, and I wish to keep my cookies. It does me no good to talk to you(voting). If I have no threat of violence(law) or acts of violence to stop it.

    There is no non-violent society that exists. It cannot exist for any length of time. We setup systems(Justice System/Military) to meter out the violence all societies need to function.

    You can hide the violent acts behind a badge/uniform/gavel, but it is always there.   
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    MTK20

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    Re: Florida's first attempt at "assault rifle" laws:
    « Reply #11 on: February 18, 2019, 10:18:34 pm »
    If you take that all power comes from violence, and if you wish to assume the individual has power. Then it only follows that the individual must be armed AND willing to do violence.

    Our system of governance is based on the individual vote and wielding institutional violence through that act of voting. If you wish to remove the individuals right to defense and the arms capable of such defense. You are wishing that individual to lose the power they wield. Their vote now means nothing.

    If you want some cookies from my cookie jar, and I wish to keep my cookies. It does me no good to talk to you(voting). If I have no threat of violence(law) or acts of violence to stop it.

    There is no non-violent society that exists. It cannot exist for any length of time. We setup systems(Justice System/Military) to meter out the violence all societies need to function.

    You can hide the violent acts behind a badge/uniform/gavel, but it is always there.


    Very well said  :thumbup1 . The thing that has always confounded me is why does the average first world citizen not recognise this? Americans will either flat out deny this, or the thought has never occurred to them in the first place.

    Y'all were a bad influence on me  ;) . When I first started here, I might've carried a gun everyday, but I was one of those amongst the masses of Americans that felt "violence is never the answer, even in self defense". How that thought could exist alongside my thoughts of defense of life and property is an impressive display in cognitive dissonance. I don't see them around much these days, but I feel Alone and Jesse really helped me unfluff my thinking on that matter.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    coelacanth

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    Re: Florida's first attempt at "assault rifle" laws:
    « Reply #12 on: February 19, 2019, 06:04:43 pm »
    "You can have peace or you can have freedom.  Don't ever count on having both at once."   Robert A. Heinlein
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

                                                   Benjamin Franklin

    MTK20

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    Re: Florida's first attempt at "assault rifle" laws:
    « Reply #13 on: February 19, 2019, 07:12:22 pm »
    "You can have peace or you can have freedom.  Don't ever count on having both at once."   Robert A. Heinlein

    I want a piece of freedom. Or piece of apple pie, for that matter. Both are distinctly American  :cool .
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    coelacanth

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    Re: Florida's first attempt at "assault rifle" laws:
    « Reply #14 on: February 19, 2019, 08:18:45 pm »
    Get it while you can.  Bernie Sanders is back and he really wants to turn the U.S.A. into Cuba.   :coffee
    Arizona" A republic, if you can keep it."

                                                   Benjamin Franklin

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