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Author Topic: Benchmade's dirty diaper . . .  (Read 19049 times)

MTK20

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Re: Benchmade's dirty diaper . . .
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2019, 09:15:54 pm »
Well, I guess you could call most of my family "Fudds" then.

Reading through this again. I feel we got off into the weeds here. It's not just someone who owns one gun.

As I mentioned above, it is the antigun, gun owner. Unless your family supported an AWB, I doubt they were Fudds.
Texas
Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

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    coelacanth

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    Re: Benchmade's dirty diaper . . .
    « Reply #26 on: March 01, 2019, 09:53:52 pm »
    Fair enough.  I am just a bit sensitive to the labels we tend to put on one another as people who are ostensibly on the same side of an issue like our second amendment freedoms.  Being a Fudd, from a long line of Fudds gives me, perhaps, a little more insight into that culture and that type of individual than those who use the term without having any personal connection to them.   Its a lot easier to buy into an idea or a meme and use the popular label than it is to actually understand the person we applied the label to. 

    As for Benchmade Knives, I decided long ago that their products weren't something I was interested in.  Too many dollars and too much hype for what was actually being delivered when the edge met the work to be done.  Nothing to do with their politics.  I was blissfully unaware of that situation until this week.  It simply stands as one more reason to avoid Benchmade IMO.   I started this thread as a public service announcement for my friends here at WTA.  Proceed as you see fit - with my blessing.   :coffee
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    Kaso

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    Re: Benchmade's dirty diaper . . .
    « Reply #27 on: March 01, 2019, 10:16:47 pm »
    Wow, glad to see WTA getting some spring back into its step.  ;)

    Kaso

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    Re: Benchmade's dirty diaper . . .
    « Reply #28 on: March 01, 2019, 10:27:10 pm »
    Being a Fudd, from a long line of Fudds gives me, perhaps, a little more insight into that culture and that type of individual than those who use the term without having any personal connection to them.
    You are not a Fudd by any definition of the term.  You like your wheel guns and your bolt guns, but that doesn't make a Fudd.  Fudds do not embrace tradition so much as look down at and judge those who embrace modernity.

    MTK20

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    Re: Benchmade's dirty diaper . . .
    « Reply #29 on: March 01, 2019, 10:37:26 pm »
    You are not a Fudd by any definition of the term.  You like your wheel guns and your bolt guns, but that doesn't make a Fudd.  Fudds do not embrace tradition so much as look down at and judge those who embrace modernity.

    I agree (hot damn, have we messed up when I'm agreeing with Kaso  :neener. Btw nice to see you again!  :cool).

    Coelacanth conceal carries and is knowledgeable of even the boutique loads used in the AR platform. He is no Fudd, nor even an adherent to old Bill Ruger doctrine. I just don't see it  :shrug .
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    coelacanth

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    Re: Benchmade's dirty diaper . . .
    « Reply #30 on: March 01, 2019, 10:42:25 pm »
    I certainly appreciate the recognition of my finer points but I definitely remember when the only guns in the household consisted of a 16 gauge side by side shotgun and a single shot .22 rimfire rifle.  Sport shooting was for folks who could afford the extra ammunition.  All we did was hunt and take care of pests and predators.  Definitely on the Fuddly side of the scale at that point.   

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    LowKey

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    Re: Benchmade's dirty diaper . . .
    « Reply #31 on: March 01, 2019, 11:02:46 pm »
    I certainly appreciate the recognition of my finer points but I definitely remember when the only guns in the household consisted of a 16 gauge side by side shotgun and a single shot .22 rimfire rifle.  Sport shooting was for folks who could afford the extra ammunition.  All we did was hunt and take care of pests and predators.  Definitely on the Fuddly side of the scale at that point.
    Fudd has less to do with hunting and almost everything to do with having the mindset that the only legitimate reason to own a firearm is hunting and shooting clays; and that people who own black rifles, "hi-capacity" magazines,  practice concealed carry, and oppose gun control and gun registration are extremist gun-nuts.     The "Fudds" are those who have the attitude that as long as TPTB leave their deer rifle and bird gun , any other form of gun restriction or banning is noting that they object to in the least.



    coelacanth

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    Re: Benchmade's dirty diaper . . .
    « Reply #32 on: March 01, 2019, 11:21:33 pm »
    By that definition I am the diametric opposite of a Fudd.  I think the second amendment is crystal clear.  Should one need any further guidance to the mindset of those who penned it, look no further than the inclusion of Letters of Marque and Reprisal in the Constitution.  They authorized private owners of the deadliest military technology of the age to engage in military operations on behalf of the government that issued them. 

    There was no wailing and hand wringing about those weapons being in private hands.  It was universally understood that those things were the birthright of every American.   :coffee
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    MTK20

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    Re: Benchmade's dirty diaper . . .
    « Reply #33 on: March 01, 2019, 11:37:46 pm »
    Fudd has less to do with hunting and almost everything to do with having the mindset that the only legitimate reason to own a firearm is hunting and shooting clays; and that people who own black rifles, "hi-capacity" magazines,  practice concealed carry, and oppose gun control and gun registration are extremist gun-nuts.     The "Fudds" are those who have the attitude that as long as TPTB leave their deer rifle and bird gun , any other form of gun restriction or banning is nothing that they object to in the least.

    ^This. Perfect summary  :thumbup1 .

    Being a 'one gun' man isn't the be all end all definition. Not that long ago, my poor self only had one gun. Raptor is in that same boat as well.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Raptor

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    Re: Benchmade's dirty diaper . . .
    « Reply #34 on: March 02, 2019, 07:30:09 am »
    ^This. Perfect summary  :thumbup1 .

    Being a 'one gun' man isn't the be all end all definition. Not that long ago, my poor self only had one gun. Raptor is in that same boat as well.

    Raptor used to be in the same boat: now Raptor has two "military style hand guns" and an "Evil Black Rifle," any one of which would make a genuine FUDD have a meltdown at the mere sight of it.  ;)

    LowKey's definition of a FUDD is spot-on. It's not someone who owns one gun (I've met FUDDs with safes full of wood & steel hunting rifles & sporting shotguns), its one of those a______s who thinks the Second Amendment only applies to his deer rifles and to hell with you, you "terrorist!"

    Back on-topic, I can't speak for Benchmade and don't know what was going through their heads, but having grown up in a relatively super-liberal area, I certainly understand the "going with the flow" mindset. Nor do I think that donating to anti-gun politicians is necessarily a bad thing, especially when you're stuck in a solidly anti-2A area where a genuine pro-gun candidate has about a snowball's chance in hell of getting elected. It never hurts to have politicians "owing you a favor," so to speak, when a controversial vote might come up.

    As for me, I already own two Benchmades. I'll continue carrying & using them, because Benchmade already got paid for them so what's the point of getting rid of or destroying them? That said, I'm not planning on buying any new ones, nor will they be my sole recommendation when someone asks about knives anymore.
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    LowKey

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    Re: Benchmade's dirty diaper . . .
    « Reply #35 on: March 02, 2019, 01:52:03 pm »
    Here's my rationale for feeling so strongly about not doing business with companies who give even a crumb of support to the anti-gun crowd. 

    The anti-gunners, and the progressive set in general, are masters at using incrementalism and masters at infiltrating and taking over organizations.  Government bureaucracies, academia,media, and corporate structures.  You have to hand it to them, they are manipulators par excellence.
    The only chance of stopping them is to call them out on their BS at every opportunity and to deny them any resource over which we exert control, because everything we give them ends up being turned against us. 
    Trying to "work together", "get along", "compromise", and so on and so forth only result in us getting the shaft.  If the struggle to preserve our rights was a football game with the 2A as the football, we've played the part of Charlie Brown to their Lucy for far too long.
    If it means we need to "polarize" society to the extent that it's plainly visible in our daily lives where the lines are drawn, so be it.  Time for people to decide which camp they want to be in, and let each side be able to see the true size of the other. Perhaps that will give them pause.   



    You don't sell fissionable materials to someone who's likely to use them to build bombs to drop on you*, and you don't give hard currency for oil to people who are going to fund terrorist attacks against you*.  So why on Earth would you buy a widget from someone who's going to fund your oppression?

    If this is a culture war then business with them or those who provide any support to them equates to trading with the enemy, not because it violates "ideological purity" but because it materially aids them.  There's a reason there has always been a rather harsh penalty for "providing aid and support to the enemy".   For businesses that do so it should be massive loss of revenue and (one can hope) eventual bankruptcy and closure of the company., leaving a market opening for someone else who isn't going to stab their own customer base in the back.   

    Okay, rant off. ;)


    * Unless, of course, you don't give a rat's ass about your country.


    AltRight Vanguard

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    Re: Benchmade's dirty diaper . . .
    « Reply #36 on: March 02, 2019, 06:39:07 pm »
    So am I to understand that your problem with them lies primarily with the donations, and less with the act of cutting up guns?
    West VirginiaLet these troubles come during my time, so that my children may live in peace.

    LowKey

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    Re: Benchmade's dirty diaper . . .
    « Reply #37 on: March 02, 2019, 06:59:25 pm »
    So am I to understand that your problem with them lies primarily with the donations, and less with the act of cutting up guns?
    Yes, as long as the guns were used in crimes by the legal owners or they were guns used in crimes where the legal owners could not be identified and contacted.   Firearms are tools, not religious relics.   
    Now if the guns were from "Red Flag" confiscations I'd have a problem.
    Likewise if they were from "buy back" programs, but to a lessor extent as my objection there isn't the destruction of the firearm in that case so much as it's a waste of tax dollars/public property.  After all the legal owner of a firearm has the right to do with it as they choose which includes melting it into slag or cutting it into tiny pieces, and if the municipality bought it then the municipality has become the legal owner of said firearm but their destroying it is no less a waste of public monies than buying (for example) a school bus which they then promptly crush into scrap.


    coelacanth

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    Re: Benchmade's dirty diaper . . .
    « Reply #38 on: March 05, 2019, 09:43:48 pm »
    Latest update and an interview with a Benchmade spokesman on Tom Gresham's radio show:    :facepalm

    https://www.alloutdoor.com/2019/03/04/benchmade-attempts-damage-control-gun-talk-radio/


    I think the old adage applies here - you know - the one about when you find yourself at the bottom of a hole, put the shovel down and stop digging.    :coffee

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    booksmart

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    Re: Benchmade's dirty diaper . . .
    « Reply #39 on: March 06, 2019, 09:40:53 am »
    I agree (hot damn, have we messed up when I'm agreeing with Kaso  :neener. Btw nice to see you again!  :cool).

    No, we've messed something up when I agree with Kaso...  which does happen from time to time.  :panic  :rotfl

    Kaso

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    Re: Benchmade's dirty diaper . . .
    « Reply #40 on: March 06, 2019, 10:00:48 am »
    No, we've messed something up when I agree with Kaso...  which does happen from time to time.  :panic  :rotfl
    Something about a broken clock, and you being right twice a day...  :coffee

    Kaso

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    Re: Benchmade's dirty diaper . . .
    « Reply #41 on: March 06, 2019, 10:04:55 am »
    For businesses that do so it should be massive loss of revenue and (one can hope) eventual bankruptcy and closure of the company, leaving a market opening for someone else who isn't going to stab their own customer base in the back. 
    Yes, we all saw how much of a beating Springfield and DS Arms took, when their lobbying firm misstepped.  Remember that fun line of argument we had, when you first joined, where you hoped it would force those two out of business?  People are stupid, and they will forget this just as fast.   :shrug

    AltRight Vanguard

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    Re: Benchmade's dirty diaper . . .
    « Reply #42 on: March 06, 2019, 12:10:02 pm »
    If you want to bring up Springfield, the difference here is that Benchmade has not really stabbed anyone in the back.  Springfield did.  Springfield, like Dicks is on my list of no-go brands.  Whether they notice or not, my intent is there.
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    MTK20

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    Re: Benchmade's dirty diaper . . .
    « Reply #43 on: March 06, 2019, 12:54:23 pm »
    If you want to bring up Springfield, the difference here is that Benchmade has not really stabbed anyone in the back.  Springfield did.  Springfield, like Dicks is on my list of no-go brands.  Whether they notice or not, my intent is there.

    Sometimes glaring and thinking angry thoughts can be enough. Not always, but sometimes  :cool .
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    AltRight Vanguard

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    Re: Benchmade's dirty diaper . . .
    « Reply #44 on: March 06, 2019, 01:12:30 pm »
    Sometimes glaring and thinking angry thoughts can be enough. Not always, but sometimes  :cool .
    Witholding my money is much more effective, I would think.  And it seems that Dick's bottom line agrees. 

    When I feel that an organization is threatening my rights, I certainly do cut them off financially.
    West VirginiaLet these troubles come during my time, so that my children may live in peace.

    ksuguy

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    Re: Benchmade's dirty diaper . . .
    « Reply #45 on: March 06, 2019, 01:42:43 pm »
    Yes, we all saw how much of a beating Springfield and DS Arms took, when their lobbying firm misstepped. 

    That was actually Rock River Arms, not DSA.   I'm still looking for another place to get a good .458 Socom upper instead of buying one from them
    Kansas

    LowKey

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    Re: Benchmade's dirty diaper . . .
    « Reply #46 on: March 06, 2019, 01:57:09 pm »
    Yes, we all saw how much of a beating Springfield and DS Arms took, when their lobbying firm misstepped.  Remember that fun line of argument we had, when you first joined, where you hoped it would force those two out of business?  People are stupid, and they will forget this just as fast.   :shrug
    Probably, but almost assuredly when there are so many on the internet (the modern town square/forum) who tell people not to bother.
    If boycotting was supported, or even urged then it would have more bite.


    **Edited to add**

    It seems the left has the tactic down pretty well and seem to be able to influence quite a few businesses.  Would that we were able to do so as well as they to counter to their ideological influence,  but we seem to be too cool for school and wont learn from watching others. 
    They're willing to brawl, and we seem to  be stuck following Marquis of Queensbury Rules......when people in our crowd aren't telling us there's no point in fighting back anyways.  :coffee
    I
    « Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 02:41:05 pm by LowKey »

    ksuguy

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    Re: Benchmade's dirty diaper . . .
    « Reply #47 on: March 06, 2019, 11:35:01 pm »
    Unfortunately, this sort of crap has begun to worm its way into a lot of high level corporate offices.  I don't think this is necessarily because corporate executives necessarily follow the same ideology.  I think many of them are just sociopaths that see it as yet another tool that can be used for their personal benefit.  Also, many of them probably don't like the idea of all the "little people" being armed, much like the old feudal nobility.   
    Kansas

    MTK20

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    Re: Benchmade's dirty diaper . . .
    « Reply #48 on: March 06, 2019, 11:46:38 pm »
    Unfortunately, this sort of crap has begun to worm its way into a lot of high level corporate offices.  I don't think this is necessarily because corporate executives necessarily follow the same ideology.  I think many of them are just sociopaths that see it as yet another tool that can be used for their personal benefit.  Also, many of them probably don't like the idea of all the "little people" being armed, much like the old feudal nobility.

     :hmm
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    LowKey

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    Re: Benchmade's dirty diaper . . .
    « Reply #49 on: March 07, 2019, 01:38:05 pm »
    Unfortunately, this sort of crap has begun to worm its way into a lot of high level corporate offices.  I don't think this is necessarily because corporate executives necessarily follow the same ideology.  I think many of them are just sociopaths that see it as yet another tool that can be used for their personal benefit.  Also, many of them probably don't like the idea of all the "little people" being armed, much like the old feudal nobility.
    Frankly, it doesn't matter which. 
    In those cases where it's simply a pursuit of increased profits the only thing that will cause them to change course is a nosedive in profits, and can only come about if many people stop spending money on their products.  Even if that means paying a little more to someone else for an equivalent item, or foregoing purchasing it at all.   
    In those cases where it is management pushing their own ideological beliefs through corporate policies the way to combat it is still causing their profits to nosedive. Eventually majority shareholders will get rid of the responsible party.   

    One person refusing to buy product from an individual company isn't going to have an appreciable impact, and getting the individualistic crowd that is firearms owners to pass up cheap deals to make a political point isn't ever going to be easy. 

    I don't know all the tactics we can bring to bear in the fight to preserve our rights,  I just know that apathy isn't one of them. :shrug

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