Author Topic: Stopped and Under Attack? Get Out and Move! (Read 10288 times)

MTK20 · « **on:** August 16, 2016, 01:07:52 pm »

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/cant-drive-away-get-car/?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiWm1ZeU1tSmtPRGRqWW1GbCIsInQiOiJrZHZyUmgzOVwvRnNreE81MlFWWnFoNElFMDdlRDM2Z0tHMTE5TnFNbitHS1k5MzVHeEtFS2x4c1dkMXlVdDBWaTlmaCtWdDM1ZFNIRWtYYmtseDg3eDNLV1YweW5NTjczNGg2cEt0eDhuZ1U9In0%3D

WeTheArmed.com

Grant · « **Reply #1 on:** August 16, 2016, 01:48:40 pm »

Very true, thought about it before.

But that would be a TRUE last resort if you couldn't get it in gear and shove/push your way out.

Kaso · « **Reply #2 on:** August 16, 2016, 02:06:52 pm »

Quote from: MTK20 on August 16, 2016, 01:07:52 pm

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/cant-drive-away-get-car/?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiWm1ZeU1tSmtPRGRqWW1GbCIsInQiOiJrZHZyUmgzOVwvRnNreE81MlFWWnFoNElFMDdlRDM2Z0tHMTE5TnFNbitHS1k5MzVHeEtFS2x4c1dkMXlVdDBWaTlmaCtWdDM1ZFNIRWtYYmtseDg3eDNLV1YweW5NTjczNGg2cEt0eDhuZ1U9In0%3D

Have I ever mentioned how much I love a thread that starts with a link, but no excerpt or description?

MTK20 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 16, 2016, 03:02:26 pm »

Quote from: Kaso on August 16, 2016, 02:06:52 pm

Have I ever mentioned how much I love a thread that starts with a link, but no excerpt or description?

Aw, shoot. I forgot

. I normally try to avoid this.

Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt, the one time I forget to do so

.

GeorgeHill · « **Reply #4 on:** August 16, 2016, 03:37:49 pm »

He is right about a bullet impacting the windshield can be deflected down - but he obviously doesn't understand the physics of WHY the bullet can be deflected down. The bullet is not pulled down. That's kinda dumb. Glass doesn't pull the projectile. It's the mass of the material above the projectile deflecting it downward through the path of least resistance, which is the shattered material below it. This is physics. Not magic.
Also. Not all bullets will be deflected downwards. Some can go straight through like there was nothing there. That all depends on bullet construction and momentum, and the luck of how the glass reacts to the impact. (Chaos Mathematics here)
Also: His first sentence. "Today we're going to talk about the rules..."
Fail.
There are no Rules in a fight. None. There are Laws about the use of force. But once the criteria for justification of the use of force is met, then there are no rules. None. Well, just one. Win It.
The first option if you can't drive away... Is can you use your vehicle as a weapon? Can you smash your way out?
The only reason to abandon the vehicle - is the if the vehicle is immobilized. Either Physically, by being blocked and can't push out, or being stuck. Or mechanically disabled. If you have to drive on 4 flats, drive on 4 flats. If you have to run a threat down, run him down. Bailing out is the last option.

MTK20 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 16, 2016, 03:48:56 pm »

Quote from: GeorgeHill on August 16, 2016, 03:37:49 pm

He is right about a bullet impacting the windshield can be deflected down - but he obviously doesn't understand the physics of WHY the bullet can be deflected down. The bullet is not pulled down. That's kinda dumb. Glass doesn't pull the projectile. It's the mass of the material above the projectile deflecting it downward through the path of least resistance, which is the shattered material below it. This is physics. Not magic.
Also. Not all bullets will be deflected downwards. Some can go straight through like there was nothing there. That all depends on bullet construction and momentum, and the luck of how the glass reacts to the impact. (Chaos Mathematics here)
Also: His first sentence. "Today we're going to talk about the rules..."
Fail.
There are no Rules in a fight. None. There are Laws about the use of force. But once the criteria for justification of the use of force is met, then there are no rules. None. Well, just one. Win It.
The first option if you can't drive away... Is can you use your vehicle as a weapon? Can you smash your way out?
The only reason to abandon the vehicle - is the if the vehicle is immobilized. Either Physically, by being blocked and can't push out, or being stuck. Or mechanically disabled. If you have to drive on 4 flats, drive on 4 flats. If you have to run a threat down, run him down. Bailing out is the last option.

Agreed on all accounts, George. Even Massad Ayoob said that as far as self defense use of force is concerned, no handgun cartridge can match the feet per square inch energy produced by ramming
someone with a vehicle. Although I would rather escape than harm someone, obviously.

RetroGrouch · « **Reply #6 on:** August 16, 2016, 05:14:55 pm »

I'm only bailing out of the car if it is completely boxed in or otherwise immobile.

Buckeye Redneck · « **Reply #7 on:** August 16, 2016, 05:58:38 pm »

Quote from: RetroGrouch on August 16, 2016, 05:14:55 pm

I'm only bailing out of the car if it is completely boxed in or otherwise immobile.

This.

Get out of the kill zone. If it's a deliberate ambush they want you stopped there for a reason.

Grant · « **Reply #8 on:** August 16, 2016, 07:16:26 pm »

I'm going to say, that instances where bailing out may be necessary is:

Dropped car keys, either outside, or cannot find them in a panicked mode.

Intentional blocking, with no way to rock it back and forth out.

I was thinking the instance was more of someone being surprised just as they get in their vehicle, without having started it yet.

sarge712 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 16, 2016, 07:31:24 pm »

Quote from: GeorgeHill on August 16, 2016, 03:37:49 pm

The only reason to abandon the vehicle - is the if the vehicle is immobilized. Either Physically, by being blocked and can't push out, or being stuck. Or mechanically disabled. If you have to drive on 4 flats, drive on 4 flats. If you have to run a threat down, run him down. Bailing out is the last option.

Exactly what we teach in vehicle ambush response to our officers.

freeman1685 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 17, 2016, 05:21:47 pm »

This would be where a cushion of space, provided by the five second rule, would come in handy. Keeping five seconds behind the vehicle in front of you, has a tactical advantage, as well as a means of collision avoidance.

Watching brake lights two or three cars in front also gives an early warning. I've also been known to brake check someone following too close.

Another rule of thumb, while stopped at a light, if you can't see the bottom of the tires of the vehicle in front of you over the hood of your car, where they contact the road, you are too close. That amount of space doesn't sound like much, but if you are rear ended, it'll keep you from being shoved into the car in front, in most cases. It also provides enough space to pull around, should the car in front suddenly become disabled, or the situation becomes hostile.

Keeping your distance from other vehicles on the road, is more than a safety issue.

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sqlbullet · « **Reply #11 on:** August 17, 2016, 10:50:53 pm »

The top of my hood is about 5.75' off the ground. I often can't see the trunk of the car in front of me, let alone the tires.

On the other hand, I have a better chance than most of making it OVER the car in front of me

MTK20 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 17, 2016, 11:05:33 pm »

Quote from: sqlbullet on August 17, 2016, 10:50:53 pm

The top of my hood is about 5.75' off the ground. I often can't see the trunk of the car in front of me, let alone the tires.

On the other hand, I have a better chance than most of making it OVER the car in front of me

Easy fix, trade that thing in and get a car or something practical

.

I've developed quite the aversion to trucks. Where I live, everyone and their dog has a Ford F5quintillion and a pipe so loud on it, it's worshipped by Harley Davidson motorcycles who wish that in their two wheeled after life, they too can reach a decibel level that unnecessarily high. I can always tell the work trucks from the show trucks. Most times the farm trucks have an appropriate exhaust and show honest wear. The show trucks are covered in pretty, untouched chrome, have the obscene pipe sticking out of it, and have never encountered a bump larger than crossing a railroad track.

When the college age cowboys keep me from getting a good parking spot on campus, cos they can't back up like their older counterparts- and when they gun and rev their engines at 2am on a school night in an effort to give their liquored up minds an exhilarating thrill- one tends to have a resentment towards the things.

freeman1685 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 17, 2016, 11:47:50 pm »

Quote from: sqlbullet on August 17, 2016, 10:50:53 pm

The top of my hood is about 5.75' off the ground. I often can't see the trunk of the car in front of me, let alone the tires.

On the other hand, I have a better chance than most of making it OVER the car in front of me

Nice. But I think you missed my point. Stopping back far enough would make driving over the car unnecessary, even in that monster.

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sarge712 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 18, 2016, 03:02:55 am »

Quote from: MTK20 on August 17, 2016, 11:05:33 pm

...I can always tell the work trucks from the show trucks. Most times the farm trucks have an appropriate exhaust and show honest wear. The show trucks are covered in pretty, untouched chrome, have the obscene pipe sticking out of it, and have never encountered a bump larger than crossing a railroad track.

Don't I know it. I recently had a co-worker ask to borrow my faithful old '96 T-100 to move some furniture and appliances. "Ummm don't you have a big ass truck Jeffy?" "Yeah Sarge, but I dont want to scratch or ding it. I gotta think about re-sale and trade in value." Ooooh damn, I hit a new land speed record for a lost temper. The LT down the hall even came over to see what it was all about. Inconsiderate all-about-them pussies, I swear.

And thats a niiiice truck but only middlin' sized for around here in Western NC. My T-100 is dwarfed by most of the redneck Godzilla trucks in this neck of the woods.

GeorgeHill · « **Reply #15 on:** August 18, 2016, 08:28:19 am »

You guys need to visit Vernal. All trucks, no cars. All the trucks are big. Bigger the better there.

GeorgeHill · « **Reply #16 on:** August 18, 2016, 08:30:50 am »

Trucks are less easily immobilized... But you are still vulnerable in them. We demonstrated bullet penetration in vehicles with the biggest truck doors we could find.

sqlbullet · « **Reply #17 on:** August 18, 2016, 11:18:36 am »

i am not normally a fancy truck guy. My last car was a Volkswagen Jetta diesel with speed dimples from a hale storm.

This was a gift, believe it or not. It was also very slightly used and the lift kit, fender flares, pop out running boards, fancy wheels and tires were all added by the previous owner. Who then found out he was about to be a daddy and couldn't afford it.

I have a trailer for stuff that is too scratchy for the truck, and while I plan to keep it nice, I also don't plan to baby it.

If stopped, I don't plan to get out unless it is completely immobilized/disabled. And that is far harder to accomplish in this than in my Jetta.

GaBoy45 · « **Reply #18 on:** August 29, 2016, 12:05:18 am »

We have the same problem with the show trucks. Usually driven by High schoolers and college kids whose parents have a lot of money and think Luke Bryan is an example of good country. We usually have a good time with those when you right them tickets.

One guy on the squad usually tells them "sorry" which they then ask why. His response is usually "your parents had to spend so much money just so you could compensate"

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MTK20 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 29, 2016, 09:11:44 am »

Quote from: GaBoy45 on August 29, 2016, 12:05:18 am

We have the same problem with the show trucks. Usually driven by High schoolers and college kids whose parents have a lot of money and think Luke Bryan is an example of good country. We usually have a good time with those when you right them tickets.

One guy on the squad usually tells them "sorry" which they then ask why. His response is usually "your parents had to spend so much money just so you could compensate"

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That's hilarious! I'm surprised that your fellow coworkers don't get written up or need to attend "sensitivity training" more often. I know every office has politics, but I forget that not every one's office politics are as constrictive as mine.

Chief45 · « **Reply #20 on:** August 29, 2016, 09:48:26 am »

rather like the ones running around with a set of fake bull balls hangin from the hitch. might be just a little bit of compensation going on . . . .

cause if you gotta graft a set of fake balls onto your truck, wonder where else they might be missing from . . .

Quote from: GaBoy45 on August 29, 2016, 12:05:18 am

**SNIP** "your parents had to spend so much money just so you could compensate"

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GaBoy45 · « **Reply #21 on:** August 29, 2016, 02:58:38 pm »

Quote from: MTK20 on August 29, 2016, 09:11:44 am

That's hilarious! I'm surprised that your fellow coworkers don't get written up or need to attend "sensitivity training" more often. I know every office has politics, but I forget that not every one's office politics are as constrictive as mine.

As long as we are polite and don't curse the complaints don't go past maybe the Sergeant.

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sarge712 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 29, 2016, 06:35:19 pm »

Quote from: GaBoy45 on August 29, 2016, 02:58:38 pm

As long as we are polite and don't curse the complaints don't go past maybe the Sergeant.

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As it should be

armoredman · « **Reply #23 on:** August 29, 2016, 08:29:03 pm »

Did anyone else here see the old movie Deadly Weapons where they did a lot of work showing bullet deflection in window glass, trees and car door penetration? The lesson from the last one is drive a 1970s vehicle - it's almost armored.

katmandoo · « **Reply #24 on:** August 30, 2016, 11:08:29 am »

these are the kind of idiots we have to deal with in Minneapolis/St. Paul. These scumbags just keep getting more brazen because LEOs have been ordered to stand down by the useless liberal morons in charge around here. Luckily the gal in the car does it right. push on through!

http://www.fox9.com/news/197164803-story