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Author Topic: An excellent article by Matt Bracken, worth the read.  (Read 3137 times)

THE NORSEMAN

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An excellent article by Matt Bracken, worth the read.
« on: March 27, 2010, 01:19:46 PM »
Normally, it's bad form to post a link with no input or comment of your own.  OK, here's my comment-  He's right.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2481166/posts
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 01:42:40 PM by THE NORSEMAN »
This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty. . . . The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction- St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries


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tire iron

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Re: An excellent article by Matt Bracken, worth the read.
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2010, 02:36:32 PM »
Link doesn't work for me........
An amateur practices something until he does it right a pro practices something until he can't get it wrong.

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Stryker

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Re: An excellent article by Matt Bracken, worth the read.
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2010, 02:40:48 PM »
Works for me, so here's the text.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Tennessee

Bud

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Re: An excellent article by Matt Bracken, worth the read.
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2010, 10:23:07 PM »
I agree with the author. But for me, sdubstitute multi-round 12 or 20 gauge shotgun for revolver.
Bud
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JesseL

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Re: An excellent article by Matt Bracken, worth the read.
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2010, 10:42:55 PM »
Funny thing whenever I'm getting to know someone around here - I'm always a little circumspect on the subject of guns (you never can be sure how people might react to what some consider a controversial subject), but it usually seems to end in a show-and-tell of the pistols neither of us knew the other was packing.

Gotta love it here.
Arizona

Grant

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Re: An excellent article by Matt Bracken, worth the read.
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2010, 11:47:02 PM »
 Agree 100%.

One reason I am assembling a few "extra" things.    Even if they shoulda known better, it's better to have a neighbor armed with a reasonable rifle with enough ammo, VS the 5 differant bolt actions with about 40 rounds apiece.....

  Then again....nearest neighbor is still over 2 miles away....lotta good that does  ;D 
Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

FMJ

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Re: An excellent article by Matt Bracken, worth the read.
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2010, 01:07:07 AM »
Wow, California has a totally different culture ( no s___ ! )

Per NORSEMAN's request, I shared this on Calguns.net

But the responses are completely different:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=284321
CaliforniaThere are many like it, but this one is mine.


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tire iron

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Re: An excellent article by Matt Bracken, worth the read.
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2010, 01:51:24 AM »
Great article - and one I agree with in principle and in practice.

Sort of "telling" with how the most of the California crowd responded to the article though......

cheers

tire iron
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THE NORSEMAN

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Re: An excellent article by Matt Bracken, worth the read.
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2010, 02:14:32 AM »
Note-  I was not trying to just single out California, just get the article spread around as it's a good one.  The author has given permission to share at will as long as authorship is recognized, as he is a writer by trade.

I do have to say, I was expecting an entirely different reaction.  Kind of surprised me.  However, I don't live there, and am certainly not qualified to pass judgment of any sort on the situation in that state.  So don't take my reaction as a slap at calguns, it's not.  We don't disrespect other forums here.

Anybody wants to share it on a state specific website, go right ahead, as it just may give you an idea of how much help will be available outside your close circle should it be needed.  Just remember to play nice.
This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty. . . . The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction- St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries

FMJ

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Re: An excellent article by Matt Bracken, worth the read.
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2010, 03:05:22 AM »
I actually wasn't expecting that response from most of them either. 

I know were are not belittling Calguns.net (as what forum/organization is responsible for what certain members think--not to mention it is a rather large forum with over 10K memebers).

As for the DPRKs situation, I guess that the high cost of living does that to people.  Hell, if I am not mistaken, local sales tax for me is about 8.75%...
CaliforniaThere are many like it, but this one is mine.

Harm

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Re: An excellent article by Matt Bracken, worth the read.
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2010, 03:16:15 AM »
For my family, and I imagine most of us here, loaning guns to family is either a done deal, a HELL NO moment, or they done brought their own!  I know my brothers each have their own setups and always have it with them when they come around.  But friends and neighbors is a whole other can o worms.   

I've actually been thinking about this exact issue for a while now.  You see my best friend and his gal live in California.  He's no pansy when it comes to guns as he's a GI, served his tour in Iraq and did 8 years in the reserves.  He also enjoys shooting but he's a movie maker by trade so he's in California where the work is. 

Last time they were down I told them if the "time" gets hot.  He can adios to Casa De Harm.  He's got no family in LA as his family now resides in Virginia.  So I've been thinking and thinking about this.  So about two months ago I picked up another Sig 556.  And last month another 229.  So now not only do I have extra I have ones with standard Operating/Maintenance, and ammo/mags.  I'll be picking up another 556 here later this year as well. 

But the thought in regards to other neighbors really has me wondering.  I think I may start hitting up the gun shows with a few hundred bucks in cash looking for cheap shotties.  Sorry to the revolver crowd but if I'm handing out guns I want something effective.  And in untrained hands, a shotguns a better choice IMHO. 

Hell you can even do a terminator sling if you want to them. 

Norseman thanks for the article brother, thought provoking and it cemented where my mind was already headed. 
ArizonaIn Deo Confido

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Into the last good fight I'll ever know
Live and die on this day
Live and die on this day

Grant

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Re: An excellent article by Matt Bracken, worth the read.
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2010, 08:14:57 AM »
  Okay, first I got a comment on the PRK.

 In a way I can understand the feeling.....A gun-owner in California wouldn't envy the thought of arming his pansy friggin neighbor, that has spent their lives trying to make him lose his rights to the 2nd amendment.      Plus it wouldn't be worth doing....In my opinion, in places like that, something bad will actually have to happen to THEM to get people changing minds...


  Third:  Where are you people who are stocking up on shotguns?    I've got a spare shotgun, but there's no way I'm getting more than 1, much less having a need for 2.    I know I might be in unusual circumstances, but even between our buildings I don't think there's much cover closer than 30 yards to each other (No shotgun shots).  I know I'm extreme desolation VS urban, but even so.....

  Outside of inside-house use, they're pretty useless....in my opinion. 

  Third: Wow. Sig 556's are that good?  Thinking of using my 180B and Mini14 as trading material...might be something to look into.
Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

Splodge Of Doom

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Re: An excellent article by Matt Bracken, worth the read.
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2010, 10:02:33 AM »
Grant, take a look at some of George's shotgun vids - especially the ones where he shows off federal black cloud or slugs.

THE NORSEMAN

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Re: An excellent article by Matt Bracken, worth the read.
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2010, 10:13:54 AM »
The Federal loads with the flight control wads generally turn in very tight patterns at 40 and even 50 yards.
This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty. . . . The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction- St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries


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JesseL

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Re: An excellent article by Matt Bracken, worth the read.
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2010, 02:59:40 PM »
And from what George has shown, slugs can hit reliably past 100 yards.
Arizona

tire iron

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Re: An excellent article by Matt Bracken, worth the read.
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2010, 03:39:54 PM »
I have some extra firearms for the following reasons:

1.  Giving to a close friends that don't own firearms at this point
2.  Bartering for those that aren't close friends


History has shown that when societies collapse - there are three catagories of "currency" - they are:

1.  Gold, silver and other precious metals
2.  Food/water
3.  Guns/ammo

I know some that are very well to do that have all three of the above covered in spades.

I don't.

I *do* however have #'s 2 and 3 covered.

Gold is ~$1000 per oz.  For that same $1000.00 I can get three or four firearms and a box or two of ammo for each one.  I personally think that I will get the same or more in trade with those three firearms and ammo than I would with 1 oz of gold.  So with my limited resources I will buy firearms and ammo instead of gold.

Just my opinion - I could be totally wrong.

cheers

tire iron

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Bud

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Re: An excellent article by Matt Bracken, worth the read.
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2010, 07:11:36 PM »
History has shown that when societies collapse - there are three catagories of "currency" - they are:

1.  Gold, silver and other precious metals
2.  Food/water
3.  Guns/ammo

tire iron

In my opinion, this is exactly right. I have osted before exactly what I believe. I have a certain amount of monery to spend and it's not enough to buy gold and silver so I am buying ammo,guns, food and those extra things i will need to help defend my town. I live in a town of 900 or so in a very rural area of northern Illinois. I am 20 miles from the nearest Interstate(I don't want to be near a major escape route from the metro areas) and our town is easily defendable by an organized and prepared residential miltia. We have identified and agreed on calibers to buy and stock but not on specific guns as that generated way too much dialogue.

Those of us involved are always shocked to learn there is someone else in town thinking the same way we are.

I do not think I can defend a remote retreat by myself. I think it will take a large group cooperating to survive if it really comes to that.

If it doesn't, then our kids are going to inherit some really neat guns with a surprising amount of ammo, oddly in the same calibers as the neighbors. And some really neat to have stuff too. I am looking for a used Kawasaki mule in good condition. I think it may be useful along with all the other stuff i have been accumulating.
Bud
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FMJ

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Re: An excellent article by Matt Bracken, worth the read.
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2010, 07:43:12 PM »
Are people just plain nicer in Free America?
CaliforniaThere are many like it, but this one is mine.

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Re: An excellent article by Matt Bracken, worth the read.
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2010, 09:47:49 PM »
Mr. Bracken's books are also very well worth a read. I consider many of the situations in them very possible eventualities ( such as
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I don't THINK I'll ever have to face down routers in the streets.

I should hope not. Mobs of rogue woodworking tools would suck to repel.

Grant

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Re: An excellent article by Matt Bracken, worth the read.
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2010, 12:01:32 AM »
  I envy you Bud....

   We have a few neighbors, but the only ones around (All of whom would pitch in and help) are limited to 4 families (including us) and less than a dozen adults.   Of course we're heavily rural but *shudder*, We aren't gonna be exempted from all this.

   It would be nice if we could get community involved, even if it was 15 miles away.....But there's too many that I potentially see as being full moochers, and/or forceful takers of what's stored amongst it....

   That said: I believe guns and ammo is a good basic money...On the flip-size, you better trust who you trade them to.   If you make a habit of trading .223's for stuff, eventually someone's going to say "hmmm....wonder what else he has?"

   As for shotguns: Admittedly they CAN be used.     But we're ou in the middle of friggin nowhere :rotfl    Problem is slugs are "okay" and quite usable to said distances (Ain't had a chance with the Mossberg, but the Legacy made 3" groups at 50 yards), but shot energy will drop past 50 yards pretty fast.     I dunno, I'm getting a few, but I'll put down a shotguns worth of money onto a SKS.  Not great but *shrugs*. I dunno.  Right now I'm somewhat moving past guns and onto the "Supplies" part.   

 
Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

Bud

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Re: An excellent article by Matt Bracken, worth the read.
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2010, 11:05:58 AM »
  I envy you Bud....

   We have a few neighbors, but the only ones around (All of whom would pitch in and help) are limited to 4 families (including us) and less than a dozen adults.   Of course we're heavily rural but *shudder*, We aren't gonna be exempted from all this.

   It would be nice if we could get community involved, even if it was 15 miles away.....But there's too many that I potentially see as being full moochers, and/or forceful takers of what's stored amongst it....

 

There is a very nice brick 4 bedroom here in town up for sale. Y'all come!
Bud
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Grant

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Re: An excellent article by Matt Bracken, worth the read.
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2010, 12:23:37 PM »
 Yeah but it's Illinois  ;D

Lol.

 I think it will be a little better.   After many years of inactivity, I am involved in restarting our local gun club.   If we get together the little groups of 3-4 shooters into one shooting organization, I think there's a good chance we can work something out.   Alot of like-minded inviduals, just until now been running in differant circles.

 
Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

THE NORSEMAN

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Re: An excellent article by Matt Bracken, worth the read.
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2010, 12:29:50 PM »
Well Grant, go get those wagons in the same circle then. ;)
This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty. . . . The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction- St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries

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Re: An excellent article by Matt Bracken, worth the read.
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2010, 02:20:58 PM »
I read enough of the article to get the gist.  I started thinking about it...

Besides my parents, I don't know anybody that I'd consider "close" that doesn't own one or more guns.  Now here's the kicker... the one guy I did know that didn't own a gun, I gave him one last November on his 21st birthday (a .357 revolver I had in my safe that he'd been eyeing).  No kidding.

So with that, I literally don't have anyone close to me that isn't a gun owner.  Hell, even my neighbors with whom I rarely interact I've seen carting rifles and whatnot to and from the car at random times.  I saw one guy down the block standing on his front porch just talking on the phone with an AR slung over his shoulder.  Heh.


-T.
Arizona  Arm yourself because no one else here will save you.  The odds will betray you, and I will replace you...

JPSwain4

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Re: An excellent article by Matt Bracken, worth the read.
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2010, 05:55:37 PM »
I'm right in line with the group's opinion too. I think i'd be more inclined to pass out shotty's than revolvers. The trouble with me is I'm relatively new to my area, so i don't have a lot of like-minded friends near by yet (north metro Denver, CO: drop me a line if you're close). Luckily, my immediate next door neighbors (3 single guys in their late 20's like me) are an Armored Truck guard who carries daily, a commercial airline pilot/Air marshal who also carries daily, and a helicopter pilot for the forestry service who's an avid hunter. Beyond them, i'd be pretty hard stretched on who to trust with my firearms, and really, they don't need them... what kind of ice breakers do you guys use when exposing new friends/neighbors to the fact you're a gun guy? Casual conversation about the weekend and mentioning the range?


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