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Author Topic: Who favors #1 buck over 00?  (Read 16750 times)

only1asterisk

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Re: Who favors #1 buck over 00?
« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2013, 11:50:55 am »
I'd really, really like to get somebody to make a low recoil load with 12 pellets of #1.

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    Stevie-Ray

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    Re: Who favors #1 buck over 00?
    « Reply #26 on: February 28, 2013, 04:22:55 pm »
    Well I do, but since it's vaporware around here, I generally use 00. My shotgun has yet to fire a #1 buck load, and ordering from the net is a pain when I can get all the 00 or #4 I want anywhere. My gun shoots both rather well.
    MichiganFolks keep talking about another Civil War.  One side knows how to shoot and has a trillion bullets.  The other side has crying closets and is confused about which bathroom to use.  How do you think that war is going to end?

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    Re: Who favors #1 buck over 00?
    « Reply #27 on: March 24, 2013, 05:14:52 pm »
    A few random thoughts. 

    -------------------------

    Number 1B is a perfect example of the ammunition version of "People go were the roads go."

    A few years ago "Single Ought" buckshot was discontinued by all the U.S. ammo manufacturers since most 00B has been reduced in diameter to virtually the nominal diameter of 0B.  Road Closed  :(

    Number One Buckshot was almost lost from the commercial ammo line-up about the same time - but - I suspect, demand in the Carolina's, Virginia and the along the Gulf Coast kept it alive. Just barely. 

    Yeah, even "wally world" still carried it along the Gulf Coast - before the current Ammunition Ice-Age   :banghead

    Some time back, with great commercial timidity, Federal tested the waters with a "Tactical" 15 pellet #1B load for the LE market.  :shrug

    You can drop in at the Box of Truth to check out the details:

    http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot56.htm

    http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu148_5.htm


    Moving along.  After seeing this post, I cut open a round of Federal Flite-Control "Tactical" 8 pellet 00B. I figured Federal would probably use the same Flite-Control wad for #1B "Tac Load" as well. I already had a sample of #1B pulled from a Federal Premium load. Yep, it measured right at .286" just like the Box o' Truth guy said.  My hunch appeared to be true - 15 of the #1 Buck-Lite  pellets fit perfectly in 3 pellet layers in the Flite-Control wad.  :scrutiny

    Over on the handloading bench, I had an 8 pound bottle of #1B from Bullet Weights Inc. - distributed to the handloading market by Ballistic Products.  This high antimony 1B runs a clean .300" (just like the label said) and just a bit over 40 grains per pellet.  Low and behold that little Flite-Control wad held an even dozen, in 2 pellet stacks, of those actual-nominal diameter #1B pellets. Those 12 pellets weighed almost the same as 15 pellets of the Buck-Lite version.  :o

    What does all this mean - that is with the current Glacial pace of the ammo and component supply line and the all consuming Black Hole of ammo demand?

    Well... #1B does offer something of a balance of maximum impact area and penetration.  :coffee

    Guess the only thing more to add:  :eh

    I kinda like #1B  -  especially when its close to nominal!  ::)

    Update:

    Tried some Nominal/Actual #1B (.30"/40 grain) in a Federal FliteControl wad removed from a Federal 3.5" Turkey Load. It held 20 of the .30" buckshot, stacked in layers of two, for an 800 grain payload.
    The FliteControl wad used in 3" loads held 16 thirty caliber pellets for a 640 grain payload.

    IMO Federal is not addressing this market niche by not producing a full line of #1B FliteControl rounds with a nominal/actual diameter of .30" to provide a real balance between a larger ballistic impact area and adequate penetration.
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    Grant

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    Re: Who favors #1 buck over 00?
    « Reply #28 on: March 24, 2013, 06:20:11 pm »
      I just picked up 4 boxes of Winchester 2 3/4" #1 buck.  Was two whole cases a week ago, but no cash, came back and I got the last 4 boxes.

       Gonna pattern everything from my new shotgun one of these days.

       Also got some Nobelsport 12 gauge, 12 pellet 00 buck coming.  It's cheap and mainly blasting ammo, but I dunno.   I know a local who patterned it and it did well in HIS shotgun, and seems powerful enough.  12 pellets of 00 VS 9 pellets of 00 or 16 pellets of #1???  should be okay even if it is a hair slower.
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

    Grant

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    Re: Who favors #1 buck over 00?
    « Reply #29 on: March 24, 2013, 07:17:26 pm »
     Okay being impatient, having a new toy and needing to unwind....I grabbed a handful of buckshot for some informal testing.

      Gun: Mossberg Maverick 20" cylinder barrel.
      Ammo: 2 3/4" 12 gauge all full power.  Fiocchi 27 pellet #4 buck, 9 pellet 00 buck and Winchester #1 16 pellet buck.

        Fiocchi performed as normal, nice even spreads, maybe a hair faster than normal at 20 yards, but on a 10"X12" jug, #4 buck scored 9 hits and 00 Buck scored 3 hits.     On tin (big scrap sheets), it all spread openly and evenly.     00 buck continued it's normal trend of clustering 3 pellets in a 4" circle near center of POA. 

       Winchester...bleck...whew...man..irregular.   Threw pellets to the left, then the right, then it blew them all over with huge gaps.....so THIS shotgun did NOT like #1 buck from winchester.  Glad I didn't splurge on a full case of it awhile back.
     
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

    Grant

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    Re: Who favors #1 buck over 00?
    « Reply #30 on: March 24, 2013, 11:13:00 pm »
      Ok...one more update....I had to blow off some steam so I went out agian.

    HOLY WOW....Federal 3" magnum 15 pellet 00 buck?   20 yards it all stayed inside a 24" circle. Only fired two shots (can't find any more locally and I'm conserving), but it sure seemed to do good and consistant both shots.

     
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

    GeorgeHill

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    Re: Who favors #1 buck over 00?
    « Reply #31 on: March 25, 2013, 01:35:20 pm »
    I've come like Federal very much.  More so than Winchester.  More so than Hornady. 
    You can buy more expensive loads, Hevi Shot, but you are not buying better loads.... I'm talking across the board.  Not just in Buck Shot loads.
    The 1600 FPS 00Buck load from Hornady though is also very impressive.
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    Re: Who favors #1 buck over 00?
    « Reply #32 on: March 28, 2013, 09:56:03 pm »
      Okay, I tested some of my Nobelsport today....HOOLLLY SHEEEEE.....

    If you guys can find some, get a box and try and pattern it.   I got a full case and I'm gonna try to sell some stuff to get another when it comes in stock.

    full power, 12 pellet 00 buck at 1290FPS.   It is DEFINATELY full power, only downside: it is about 2 7/8" instead fo 2 3/4.   SO if your tube is a tight fit, you'll be down by one.   But I only paid 65 cents a round, it's powerful and......MY (can't speak for every one) shotgun shoots it like it has a full choke.   put every pellet into 18" at 20 yards and 35 yards had 9 inside a 18" circle and all inside of 24".

       
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

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    Re: Who favors #1 buck over 00?
    « Reply #33 on: March 29, 2013, 03:53:07 am »
    Nice.  I'll be looking for some.
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    RMc

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    Re: Who favors #1 buck over 00?
    « Reply #34 on: March 29, 2013, 07:51:49 pm »
      Okay, I tested some of my Nobelsport today....HOOLLLY SHEEEEE.....

    If you guys can find some, get a box and try and pattern it.   I got a full case and I'm gonna try to sell some stuff to get another when it comes in stock.

    full power, 12 pellet 00 buck at 1290FPS.   It is DEFINATELY full power, only downside: it is about 2 7/8" instead fo 2 3/4.   SO if your tube is a tight fit, you'll be down by one.   But I only paid 65 cents a round, it's powerful and......MY (can't speak for every one) shotgun shoots it like it has a full choke.   put every pellet into 18" at 20 yards and 35 yards had 9 inside a 18" circle and all inside of 24".

       

    Not bad for a 3 pellet per layer stack, non-buffered, non-shotcup load, (correct me if this has changed).  It would be interesting to see how much choke constriction these loads could handle.  That is - pattern improvement or deterioration vs increasing choke constriction levels.
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    Re: Who favors #1 buck over 00?
    « Reply #35 on: March 29, 2013, 09:10:12 pm »
      Yep that's the load.  I don't know, haven't had time to try it in my Mossy 500 with chokes, but I am guessing that chokes could only hurt it at this point.

    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

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    Re: Who favors #1 buck over 00?
    « Reply #36 on: March 29, 2013, 09:23:48 pm »
      Okay, I tested some of my Nobelsport today....HOOLLLY SHEEEEE.....

    I've got a bunch of that in #4 buck. Good stuff in my SPX and at 6 bucks for a box of 10, it was cheap. I'll buy a bunch more next show if I can. This center target was punched out with Nobelsport #4 buck. Notice the big holes from the cardboard wad. :D

    MichiganFolks keep talking about another Civil War.  One side knows how to shoot and has a trillion bullets.  The other side has crying closets and is confused about which bathroom to use.  How do you think that war is going to end?

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    Re: Who favors #1 buck over 00?
    « Reply #37 on: March 30, 2013, 01:14:47 am »
    Thanks for all the info guys, god stuff to put in the memory banks.  :thumbup1

    Me?  If anyone wants to know-  I just stick with the federal 00 buck load # LE 132 00 with the flite-control wad.  Why?  Because I have several 12 gauge guns, and they all shoot it anywhere from very good to scary good.  AND-  I can usually find it without looking too hard(up until recently).  Not broke, no need to fix.

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    Re: Who favors #1 buck over 00?
    « Reply #38 on: March 30, 2013, 03:08:19 pm »
    I just stick with the federal 00 buck load # LE 132 00 with the flite-control wad.  Why?  Because I have several 12 gauge guns, and they all shoot it anywhere from very good to scary good.

    Scary good.
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    Re: Who favors #1 buck over 00?
    « Reply #39 on: March 30, 2013, 06:39:13 pm »
    From a hunting perspective the explosion (pun intended) of tactical/practical shooting has more shooters actually placing buckshot patterns on paper than ever before.  Seeing articles, and hearing about tight patterns is in turn encouraging hunters to test their Shotgun/choke/load combinations before shooting at game. 

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    Re: Who favors #1 buck over 00?
    « Reply #40 on: March 30, 2013, 10:01:51 pm »
    #1 buck is my preferred load but I can rarely find the stuff and I'm getting rather low on it so I'm not practicing with it as much.  I read a pretty well researched report years ago about the lethality of various shotgun loads and the data on #1 convinced me to switch to it.

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    Re: Who favors #1 buck over 00?
    « Reply #41 on: March 30, 2013, 11:16:46 pm »
    Before the Federal 00B con Flight control wad became the cat's ass, my Dept. carried #1 Buck 2 3/4 Magnums, loaded by Remington, as the issued load. It was impressive and is certainly a viable option en lieu of the aforementioned load.
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    Re: Who favors #1 buck over 00?
    « Reply #42 on: March 31, 2013, 12:04:05 am »
     
    Frankly a series of Federal FliteControl with full size #1B (.30"/40 grains) would in IMO put #1B at the head of the line for conventional size defensive and hunting buckshot.

     - 12 pellet/1.10 ounce    2.75" load
     - 16 pellet/1.47 ounce    3" load 
     - 20 pellet/1.83 ounce    3.5" load 

    These full size #1B   loads would have a near optimum balance of impact area and penetration for conventional buckshot sizes. The relatively moderate payload weights could easily be set for 1300+ fps for all except low recoil/tactical 2.75" loads. This size (.30"/40 grains) would be the largest possible double stack pellet size for optimum payload space utilization in the tight patterning FliteControl series of wads.

    For reference:
    Current Federal .323"/50 grain 00B are stacked in an offset staggered pattern in FliteControl wads. 
    Current Federal .286"/33 grain LE #1B are stacked in layers of 3 in the FliteControl wad.
    « Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 01:01:39 am by RMc »
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    strangelittleman

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    Re: Who favors #1 buck over 00?
    « Reply #43 on: March 31, 2013, 12:08:58 am »
    Wow that would be most impressive!!....The old Dept. load was 16# 1buck shot at nearly 1,400fps, so yes I agree, 12# 1buck, in the flight control wad, at 1300 would be a real thumper!!
    Semper Gumby.....Always Flexible.
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    Grant

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    Re: Who favors #1 buck over 00?
    « Reply #44 on: March 31, 2013, 02:46:51 pm »
      Ok, hate beating a dead horse (especially since I REALLLLY want some flite-control shells to try out now.....).

    But:  I tried Nobelsport 12-pellet 00 buck in two more shotguns today:

    single-shot H&R with a modified choke: patterns were identical with my cylinder-bore Maverick.   No improvement, no worse.

    Rossi-overland coach gun......Brings a whole new meaning to the word scatter-gun.   Out of those two cylinder barrels the Nobel hit a roughly 5 foot pattern at 15 yards.   10 yards got me a 2 foot pattern.   
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

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    Re: Who favors #1 buck over 00?
    « Reply #45 on: March 31, 2013, 11:04:25 pm »
    .   .    .   and thats why we use pattern boards.   ;)
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    RMc

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    Re: Who favors #1 buck over 00?
    « Reply #46 on: March 31, 2013, 11:04:46 pm »
    Brings a whole new meaning to the word scatter-gun.

     :thumbup1

     And to the "lost art" of patterning!   :coffee
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Grant:

      If memory serves correct, the 12 gauge Rossi Overland Coach guns (20" bbls.) are set up with fixed Imp Cyl & Modified chokes.
    « Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 12:24:30 am by RMc »
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    Re: Who favors #1 buck over 00?
    « Reply #47 on: March 31, 2013, 11:23:16 pm »
    LoneStar-  Yep, that's basically identical to my results.  When I stated shooting patterns with it at 50 yards, I noticed something else folks may find interesting-  All my wads were within a few feet of each other at about the 40 yard mark.
    This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty. . . . The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction- St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries

    Grant

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    Re: Who favors #1 buck over 00?
    « Reply #48 on: April 01, 2013, 08:08:16 am »
    RMc:  Really?  I looked over the barrels top and bottom and couldn't find any markings.  I just assumed they were cylinder.  Thanks! I'll look up the info. 
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

    RMc

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    Re: Who favors #1 buck over 00?
    « Reply #49 on: April 01, 2013, 02:52:31 pm »
    Update:

    I recieved an answer to my query:

    According to DKG Trading, Inc. 00B and 4B Nobel Buckshot rounds have a protective shotcup and the buckshot pellets contain 4% antimony. 

    The picture below shows this 00B round to be roll crimped with a clear frangible plastic overshot wad and a three pellet per layer stack.

     



    « Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 03:09:47 pm by RMc »
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