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Author Topic: Tri-ball  (Read 21172 times)

akodo

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Tri-ball
« on: May 08, 2010, 02:47:32 AM »
back in my youth when Tom Petty's 'Free Fallin'' song would come on, we'd sing along as 'Three! Three Ballin'

But that's not what I mean here.

I have been reading about a dixie gunworks shotgun load called the Tri-Ball, which is 3 balls of what I think is technically 00000 buck, each ball being .6 in diameter and 3/4th of an oz for a total payload of 2.25 oz of lead.  Designed to be used with a full choke and give a palm sized pattern at 40 yards these things look pretty impressive.

Anyone here have any experience with them?

Obviously with just 3 projectiles and a tight pattern, you don't really have any of the 'spread' you'd find, so you don't have the benefit of being a bit off target and still getting pellet hits like you'd find with 00 buck, and with pellets that big you are going to have heck of a lot of penetration through walls

So once you have gone THIS FAR down the path...wouldn't it make just as much sense to finish the trip and fire a single projectile?  Or do 3 different .60 balls give more total carnage than a single .720 slug?

anyways, it would be fun to play with....I might have to order a box or two.





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Thernlund

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Re: Tri-ball
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2010, 05:19:17 AM »
I think the benefit is in that even though they don't spread much, they do still spread.  The picture of the deer is case in point.  The four (four?) did a lot more damage than one.  Imagine that small spread on a man.  That's the heart and both lungs easily.

This is to say... the only way three will do less damage than one is if they follow each other perfectly into the wound channel.  And that won't happen I'm pretty sure.  All they have to do is spread a half inch to either side to do three times the damage.


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Re: Tri-ball
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2010, 11:58:17 AM »
Could be very useful in certain specific applications.  But, remember, pattering in your gun would be absolutely required before loading them up for serious use.  If they pattern well in an 18" rifle sighted barrel on your gun, I'd say keep some around.  I do wonder about the tri-ball with 4 hits though.  What's up with that picture?
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only1asterisk

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Re: Tri-ball
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2010, 12:06:38 PM »
  I do wonder about the tri-ball with 4 hits though.  What's up with that picture?

The wad will penetrate if you are close enough.

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Re: Tri-ball
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2010, 01:04:08 PM »
2.25 oz at killing velocities sounds like it would hurt to shoot.
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Re: Tri-ball
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2010, 01:14:17 PM »
Yes, a wad will penetrate, but if that is the case, the shooter sure knows how to get close to deer.
This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty. . . . The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction- St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries

Harm

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Re: Tri-ball
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2010, 01:24:56 PM »
eh my shoulders feeling ok today. Send some out here I'll try them out and review it for ya!   :neener

Regarding the 4 holes in the deer, just a guess but my brother hunts from a tree stand with his shotgun and generally ends up shooting almost always straight down on top of the deers back.  Depending on the angle I could see that being the exit hole of of one of the balls there on the bottom of the collar.  Of course its not quite as messy as I'd expect but maybe they pulled the gore away before taking the pic.  Heck if I know. 
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akodo

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Re: Tri-ball
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2010, 04:40:05 PM »
The wad will penetrate if you are close enough.

actually I believe it is the case of a follow-up shot going low

which itself is interesting...say you miss  badguy by 3 inches with your single slug at 40 yards.  Had you been using triball you would likely have nailed him with one of the three...and nailing someone with a .60 roundball at 40 yards is going to at least take the wind out of their sails.

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Re: Tri-ball
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2010, 10:14:27 PM »
I can see the use... and I agree with everyone that the spread increases your chance of putting at least one ball into the target - one ball that will have an effect on the target.
For Defensive or Tactical use, I really don't see the necessity.  I'd rather use a smaller shot with more pellets.  Humans are different and thus do not need shells designed for killing big game.  But if you want - Big Game hunting shells do make a mess of one's adversary.

Winchester's new PDX1 Shells offer 3 00 Buck pellets and 1 One Ounce Slug.  That's interesting.  I would want to test this and the Tri-Ball from a Cylinder Bore shotgun and pattern them every 5 yards to check dispersion. 
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only1asterisk

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Re: Tri-ball
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2010, 10:21:49 AM »
Yes, a wad will penetrate, but if that is the case, the shooter sure knows how to get close to deer.

I have killed deer I could have spit on.

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Re: Tri-ball
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2010, 03:33:34 AM »
I think that deer is the first I've ever seen actually shot with buckshot.

I've shot deer with rifles, bows, crossbows, handguns, shotguns with foster type slugs and the fancy sabot rounds out of a fully rifled barrel.  Oddly enough I've never shot a deer with actual buckshot.  Buckshot isn't even legal for deer in my state of Missouri for some reason and even though Iowa was an all shotgun state when I hunted there you couldn't use buckshot.

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akodo

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Re: Tri-ball
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2010, 06:51:46 PM »
my understanding is that buckshot was, back in the colonial days to probably civil war era, a 'big animal multipurpose shot'  that could kill animals up to and including bucks, but was just as likely to be used on a wild hog, turkey, mountain lion, or whatever...and generally was shot at animals after you either treed them (mountain lion) or stalked up on them

then again, you have to remember the attitude was a bit different.  I've heard an old timer (and of course NOT one from the flintlock era) who would talk about hunting deer with a 38-40, which when you asked about how effective it was "ya, sure, worked great, ya yust stalk close ya see, and ya shoot em two er tree times and he gooes right down like nottin'

lots of hunters in the 1920s or so had no qualms about stalking close to a herd of deer, popping up at 25-50 yards and blazing away at the herd as the herd ran until their gun was out of ammo or the deer were out of sight, and then you'd collect the two or three you downed, follow the bloodtrail from any you might wound and get them too.  You'd come home from a hunting weekend sometimes with no deer, sometimes with 5.

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Re: Tri-ball
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2010, 06:55:11 PM »
Winchester's new PDX1 Shells offer 3 00 Buck pellets and 1 One Ounce Slug.  That's interesting.  I would want to test this and the Tri-Ball from a Cylinder Bore shotgun and pattern them every 5 yards to check dispersion. 
Isn't that what they used to call the "Malay" load as the Brit SAS used it in the jungles during the Malasian "uprising".
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GeorgeHill

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Re: Tri-ball
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2010, 07:06:01 PM »
Isn't that what they used to call the "Malay" load as the Brit SAS used it in the jungles during the Malasian "uprising".
Or something very similar to it.  I am not sure.
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Skeptic49

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Re: Tri-ball
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2010, 07:56:17 PM »
Isn't that what they used to call the "Malay" load as the Brit SAS used it in the jungles during the Malasian "uprising".

I believe the Brits used lighter shot, but still mixed heavy and lighter.  Then there is the old buck and ball from the Late Unpleasantness, in a smoothbore .58 caliber musket.  I think that was 2 or 3 buckshot behind a ball.

Geoff
Who notes that was for short range, but all muskets were.

seanp

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Re: Tri-ball
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2010, 01:58:18 PM »
Isn't that what they used to call the "Malay" load as the Brit SAS used it in the jungles during the Malasian "uprising".

The "Malay Load" seems to be semi-mythical on the intranets.  I've also seen it described as SG (00'ish size) shot over BBs, and the most authoritative source I've seen, an actual book (oooh), briefly described it as a bore (slug) sized ball surrounded by smaller shot.  But those are unsupported descriptions.  From what I have read, it was actually commercially loaded by FN so there should be historical records somewhere.  Whatever it was, the fact that it was not subsequently widely adopted leads me to believe that it was not much more effective than standard loadings.
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RMc

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Re: Tri-ball
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2010, 04:18:18 PM »
Perhaps I can shed a bit of light on the Dixie Tri-Ball buckshot load.

The company that manufactures this is Dixie Slugs  (Type that into your search engine)

As for the  four pellet hole picture, the first shot at the running deer went low, the shot was taken at approximately 40 yards with a modified choke tube. (This information is available on the Dixie Slugs forum)

The concept of the Tri-Ball round, according to company owner James Gates, is simply to provide a superior buckshot load for heavy cover deer and wild hog hunters and those who hunt in buckshot only areas.  The most interesting thing about this choke friendly load is the pattern centers to the same point of aim as heavy turkey loads.  My 870 Express with a 26" barrel and an extended full choke tube fires the 3-4" ,(yes, 3 to 4 inches), pattern to the point of aim at 40 yards with just the bead and vent rib for sights.  Unlike common buckshot or ordinary rifled slugs, the Tri-Ball pellets are hard cast and will not flatten out. Complete penetration is the norm with Tri-Ball buckshot.

OOB pellets are nominally .33" / 54 grains.
Tri-Ball 12ga. pellets are .60" / 315 grains.

« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 03:08:32 PM by RMc »
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Re: Tri-ball
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2010, 06:35:37 PM »
Ah!  Thanks for the information, RMc.  Will not flatten for goo penetration.  That's interesting.  Hog hunting... I see that.  Methinks this makes for some good tactical (small T) applications.  Barrier penetration.  Stopping Dangerous Game. 
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RMc

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Re: Tri-ball Recoil.
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2010, 07:44:47 PM »
Ah!  Thanks for the information, RMc.  Will not flatten for goo penetration.  That's interesting.  Hog hunting... I see that.  Methinks this makes for some good tactical (small T) applications.  Barrier penetration.  Stopping Dangerous Game. 


Yes, busting through the gristle shield of a big boar hog is what they are made for!  Little buckshot like 000B just doesn't cut it for that task.

For what it's worth, the payload weight and velocity of the Dixie Tri-Ball 3" buckshot round is almost identical to that of the Winchester 3 inch 12 Ga. 24 pellet  #1 Buckshot load.  That is 2 1/4th ounces at just under 1100 fps.  Not something you would want to shoot 25 quick rounds with, but certainly tolerable for the purpose intended. 

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RMc

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Re: Tri-ball
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2010, 02:45:40 PM »
Ah!  Thanks for the information, RMc.  Will not flatten for goo penetration.  That's interesting.  Hog hunting... I see that.  Methinks this makes for some good tactical (small T) applications.  Barrier penetration.  Stopping Dangerous Game. 



Also from the UTAH Big Game Handbook section on  legal firearms:
Your shotgun must be 20 gauge or larger, • and you may use only slug ammunition or buckshot that's 00 or larger in size.
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RMc

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Re: Tri-ball
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2010, 03:03:21 PM »
Isn't that what they used to call the "Malay" load as the Brit SAS used it in the jungles during the Malasian "uprising".



In Hawaii, hunting larger game with or without dogs: Shotguns loaded with slugs or 00 or larger buckshot are legal.
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Re: Tri-ball
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2010, 03:37:52 PM »
I remember reading a comment from a black soldier in the Union army about buck and ball.  The black units were first armed with the left over un-rifled Springfield smooth bores.  They said they guys didn't mind because though, they did not have the range of the rifled muskets but Ifthey seldom engaged at long ranges.  They would open fire in ranks staring eyeball to eyeball.  The buck and ball load gave a greater number of hits at the close ranges and the smooth bore muskets had an edge on reloading speed and would take longer to foul up.  It was fire, fire, maybe one more volley and then the bayonet.  Rinse and repeat.

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Re: Tri-ball
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2010, 04:00:07 PM »
The "Malay Load" seems to be semi-mythical on the intranets. 
Actually, I had heard off and tried to duplicate the "Malay Load" long before Al Gore invented the intranet or the www. Friend and I played around with different mixed loads (large and small shot, shot and ball, shot over/under slug etc.), waxed bird  shot, and even wired split shot. Just could never get a reliable performance. But was lots of fun. :devillol
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Re: Tri-ball
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2010, 04:04:43 PM »
The one thing about the shot over the slug loads is that it makes the shot spread out a lot faster than normal.  I think perhaps a bit too fast.
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RMc

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Re: Tri-ball
« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2010, 05:25:14 PM »
I think that deer is the first I've ever seen actually shot with buckshot.

I've shot deer with rifles, bows, crossbows, handguns, shotguns with foster type slugs and the fancy sabot rounds out of a fully rifled barrel.  Oddly enough I've never shot a deer with actual buckshot.  Buckshot isn't even legal for deer in my state of Missouri for some reason and even though Iowa was an all shotgun state when I hunted there you couldn't use buckshot.



The first buck I ever killed was on the run about 20 to 25 yards out when it fell to a staggered  burst of 100 rounds!  Yes, I fired all five shells letting fly one hundred of the little .30 caliber "rounds."  If memory serves, the small buck had 87 holes from bow to stern from those Winchester 2 3/4" magnum #1 buckshot loads. It was like just like rabbit hunting, or so I thought, abeit with bigger game. The buckshot patterns were breaking up on hanging vines in the swamp bottom where that buck was taken some 40 years ago.  

That was then. Now I use bigger buckshot!  
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