Help support WeTheArmed.com by visiting our sponsors.

Author Topic: Shotgun slug danger range...  (Read 12604 times)

RMc

  • Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 1626

  • Offline
Re: Shotgun slug danger range...
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2016, 03:08:00 AM »
Rifled Slugs at 230 yards...

Alabama

WeTheArmed.com

  • Advertisement
  • ***

    tokugawa

    • Member
    • **
    • Posts: 436

    • Offline
    Re: Shotgun slug danger range...
    « Reply #26 on: November 14, 2016, 08:59:25 PM »
    Any info on buckshot, and T shot danger ranges?  I live in an area with 5-20 acre parcels, heavily wooded, nearest house around 300 yards away.  So the shotgun is my go to weapon if I need to go outside to investigate something. 

    coelacanth

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 7231
    • eccentric orbit

    • Offline
    Re: Shotgun slug danger range...
    « Reply #27 on: November 14, 2016, 09:31:06 PM »
    Any shot load - including buckshot - will shed velocity faster than will a slug.  That said, it will still go past the three hundred yard mark if the muzzle of the gun is elevated.  Larger buckshot will still be dangerous and perhaps lethal even at that distance depending on where the pellet strikes.  Smaller shot will lose velocity faster than buckshot but getting pelted with even #6's or #7's from some jacka&&  popping away at doves on the other side of the hill is a bit disconcerting.  Caution and discretion should rule the day in your situation unless you have a certain backstop or are basically depressing your muzzle below a level line of sight. 
    Arizona"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot."
                          Robert A. Heinlein ,   Friday

    RMc

    • Contributor
    • ****
    • Posts: 1626

    • Offline
    Re: Shotgun slug danger range...
    « Reply #28 on: December 20, 2016, 07:32:20 AM »
    Any info on buckshot, and T shot danger ranges?  I live in an area with 5-20 acre parcels, heavily wooded, nearest house around 300 yards away.  So the shotgun is my go to weapon if I need to go outside to investigate something. 


    From:
    http://wethearmed.com/shotguns/how-far-will-lead-shot-travel/


    "Journee's Formula" for estimating maximum shot travel:

    Lead shot size diameter in inches, (expressed as a decimal), multiplied by 2200 gives the maximum potential distance in yards.

    To convert SAMMI voluntary numerical shot sizes to decimal, subtract shot size from 17.

    Example: 17 - 6 (shot size) = 11      Move decimal two places to the left .11"

    SAMMI #6 lead shot .11 x 2200 = 242 Yards

    Federal 00B -measured, .325 x 2200 = 715 yards

    -------------------------------------------------------------

    Note: Journee's Formula is a lead shot calculation

    Alabama

    booksmart

    • Token Left Leaning Idealist Libertarian
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 5805
    • E. Pluribus Unum.

    • Offline
    Re: Shotgun slug danger range...
    « Reply #29 on: December 20, 2016, 09:23:15 AM »
    Why 2200?

    I understand that this is a ballparking figure, and not a "this is exactly how far the shot will go, no further, no less", but I would think the powder load and the muzzle speed of the load would come into play somewhere...

    Kaso

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 6401
    • WTA Hardline Antagonist (aka: Jerk)

    • Offline
    Re: Shotgun slug danger range...
    « Reply #30 on: December 20, 2016, 09:44:57 AM »
    Why 2200?

    I understand that this is a ballparking figure, and not a "this is exactly how far the shot will go, no further, no less", but I would think the powder load and the muzzle speed of the load would come into play somewhere...
    I thought that was a theoretical maximum, not a realistic expectation.

    A half mile for 00 buckshot is stretching it a good bit.
    Donald J Trump, by the Grace of God: 45th president of the United States.
    20 January 2017, 12:01pm
    Here's to a great four years!

    booksmart

    • Token Left Leaning Idealist Libertarian
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 5805
    • E. Pluribus Unum.

    • Offline
    Re: Shotgun slug danger range...
    « Reply #31 on: December 20, 2016, 10:09:38 AM »
    That's what I'm saying...

    Kaso

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 6401
    • WTA Hardline Antagonist (aka: Jerk)

    • Offline
    Re: Shotgun slug danger range...
    « Reply #32 on: December 20, 2016, 10:24:04 AM »
    That's what I'm saying...
    Okay, I didn't follow.  When you said, 'and not a "this is exactly how far the shot will go, no further, no less",'... that is meant to calculate how far shot can possibly go.  Maybe not the absolute maximum under extreme conditions, or by the laws of physics, but that is a good safe 'maximum' to go by.  Still plenty far.
    Donald J Trump, by the Grace of God: 45th president of the United States.
    20 January 2017, 12:01pm
    Here's to a great four years!

    RMc

    • Contributor
    • ****
    • Posts: 1626

    • Offline
    Re: Shotgun slug danger range...
    « Reply #33 on: December 20, 2016, 05:32:03 PM »

    From:
    http://wethearmed.com/shotguns/how-far-will-lead-shot-travel/


    "Journee's Formula" for estimating maximum shot travel:

    Lead shot size diameter in inches, (expressed as a decimal), multiplied by 2200 gives the maximum potential distance in yards.

    To convert SAMMI voluntary numerical shot sizes to decimal, subtract shot size from 17.

    Example: 17 - 6 (shot size) = 11      Move decimal two places to the left .11"

    SAMMI #6 lead shot .11 x 2200 = 242 Yards

    Federal 00B -measured, .325 x 2200 = 715 yards

    -------------------------------------------------------------

    Note: Journee's Formula is a lead shot calculation



    Why subtract the shot size from 17 ?

    Because .17 is the nominal diameter of "B"pellets, the smallest of the "letter" sizes - also known as "hail" shot.
    « Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 07:18:51 PM by RMc »
    Alabama

    RMc

    • Contributor
    • ****
    • Posts: 1626

    • Offline
    Re: Shotgun slug danger range...
    « Reply #34 on: December 20, 2016, 06:07:21 PM »
    Regarding buckshot:

    I have fired 00B on a dusty 600 yard rifle range.  Holding just over the top of the roughly 12 ft. high safety berm, the pellets appeared to be striking close to the base of the berm.  Of course, some of the impacts could have resulted from unseen ricochet.

    « Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 06:46:14 PM by RMc »
    Alabama

    RMc

    • Contributor
    • ****
    • Posts: 1626

    • Offline
    Re: Shotgun slug danger range...
    « Reply #35 on: December 20, 2016, 06:19:47 PM »
    Under estimating the danger range of buckshot is a common misconception.

    "It was a freak accident,” Sauls said, noting that the gun was well over 100 yards away. “The fact that he was hit by the buckshot was incredible,” he said, explaining, “Shotguns are not long range weapons.”  (Bold print added for emphasis.)

    http://www.cljnews.com/20111111blountstown-man-killed-by-stray-buckshot-pellet-on-hunting-trip

    http://wethearmed.com/shotguns/'-man-killed-by-stray-buckshot-pellet-'/msg253013/#msg253013
    Alabama

    RMc

    • Contributor
    • ****
    • Posts: 1626

    • Offline
    Re: Shotgun slug danger range...
    « Reply #36 on: February 05, 2017, 11:27:54 PM »
    Any shot load - including buckshot - will shed velocity faster than will a slug.   
       

     :hmm

    Remember that a rifled slug is essentially a lead cup flying with the solid end forward - a lot of drag.

    Journee's formula applied to a .645" ball, from a pre-WWII factory 12 gauge ball round, shows a maximum range of 1420 yards.

    Compared to a one ounce Rifled Slug at 1,068 Yards
    Alabama

    coelacanth

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 7231
    • eccentric orbit

    • Offline
    Re: Shotgun slug danger range...
    « Reply #37 on: February 06, 2017, 12:19:40 AM »
    Well, in the context of the reply above I was referring to buckshot and birdshot.   :hmm   I have been hunting with shotguns most of my life and still have not seen a 12 gauge round ball load like you describe.   I see plenty of shot loads of various sizes and many varieties of slugs but I have never encountered a bore diameter round ball load for a modern firearm.   If such a thing exists I will concede the point but in my experience the smaller diameter shot simply doesn't have the range potential of even a Foster type slug. 
    Arizona"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot."
                          Robert A. Heinlein ,   Friday

    RMc

    • Contributor
    • ****
    • Posts: 1626

    • Offline
    Re: Shotgun slug danger range...
    « Reply #38 on: February 06, 2017, 01:36:25 PM »
    Well, in the context of the reply above I was referring to buckshot and birdshot.   :hmm   I have been hunting with shotguns most of my life and still have not seen a 12 gauge round ball load like you describe.   I see plenty of shot loads of various sizes and many varieties of slugs but I have never encountered a bore diameter round ball load for a modern firearm.   If such a thing exists I will concede the point but in my experience the smaller diameter shot simply doesn't have the range potential of even a Foster type slug. 

    I was refering to Pre-WWII 12 gauge one ounce round ball loads.  If you scroll down the attached January, 1941 Winchester Jobber's list, the Round Ball loads are just below Rifled Slugs on page 2.  The diameter is found in a chart at the bottom of page 10.

    Obviously, a 17 gauge, (.645"), ball is not bore size. Reduced diameter was used in round ball loads to avoid problems in choke bore guns. Twelve gauge rifled slugs, of the era, were a reduced diameter as well, (.69").  Also of note, the round ball and rifled slug rounds have the same projectile weight in each gauge.

    http://cartridgecollectors.org/content/catalogs/WESTERN/WCC-1941-2%20Jan-Jobbers%20PL.pdf

    Additionally, The current Dixie Tri-Ball buckshot round fires three 22 gauge (.60") hard lead pellets.  Journee's formula would have the maximum distance at 1320 yards.

    http://www.dixieslugs.com/home.html
    « Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 02:03:07 PM by RMc »
    Alabama

    JesseL

    • Gun Mangler
    • WTA Staff
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 12450

    • Offline
    Arizona

    coelacanth

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 7231
    • eccentric orbit

    • Offline
    Re: Shotgun slug danger range...
    « Reply #40 on: February 06, 2017, 09:23:57 PM »
    Well, alrighty then.   :hmm    That said, good luck getting even the largest of buckshot ( 0000 ? ) to carry as far as a Foster type slug under field conditions.   I wouldn't want anyone shooting at me with any of it - even at a thousand yards.   I seem to have more than a nodding acquaintance with Murphy's Law and wouldn't want to push my luck in that regard.   :cool
    Arizona"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot."
                          Robert A. Heinlein ,   Friday

    RMc

    • Contributor
    • ****
    • Posts: 1626

    • Offline
    Re: Shotgun slug danger range...
    « Reply #41 on: February 06, 2017, 10:14:35 PM »

    "... good luck getting even the largest of buckshot ( 0000 ? ) to carry as far as a Foster type slug under field conditions.

    Indeed so!

    Considering the largest of conventional 12 gauge buckshot ammo is 000B.  The ones I've cut open and measured run to .35" 

    Now engage Journee's formula for estimating maximum range of shot travel:

    .35 x 2200 = 770 yards     

    Winchester's estimated maximum for their 1 ounce rifled slug: 1068 yards.


    Alabama

    booksmart

    • Token Left Leaning Idealist Libertarian
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 5805
    • E. Pluribus Unum.

    • Offline
    Re: Shotgun slug danger range...
    « Reply #42 on: February 06, 2017, 10:37:23 PM »
    Well, alrighty then.   :hmm    That said, good luck getting even the largest of buckshot ( 0000 ? ) to carry as far as a Foster type slug under field conditions.   I wouldn't want anyone shooting at me with any of it - even at a thousand yards.   I seem to have more than a nodding acquaintance with Murphy's Law and wouldn't want to push my luck in that regard.   :cool

    It would be your luck to encounter the one farmer who can summon a tailwind at will...

    coelacanth

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 7231
    • eccentric orbit

    • Offline
    Re: Shotgun slug danger range...
    « Reply #43 on: February 06, 2017, 10:41:17 PM »
    Entirely possible.  As is the bad luck to resemble someone the farmer has reason to shoot at.   :facepalm
    Arizona"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot."
                          Robert A. Heinlein ,   Friday

    MTK20

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 5526
    • Mind of a philosopher, mouth of a sailor.

    • Offline
    Re: Shotgun slug danger range...
    « Reply #44 on: February 07, 2017, 05:59:56 AM »
    It would be your luck to encounter the one farmer who can summon a tailwind at will...

    Entirely possible.  As is the bad luck to resemble someone the farmer has reason to shoot at.   :facepalm

     :rotfl
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Help support WeTheArmed.com by visiting our sponsors.