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Author Topic: Remington R12 Versa Max Police  (Read 10723 times)

Nightcrawler

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Remington R12 Versa Max Police
« on: April 19, 2012, 12:18:23 PM »
Okay, daddy wants. 

I've been pining for a semiauto shotgun for a long time.  I broke down a bought a bunch of Mesa Tactical stuff for my 870 instead, though (which I could always pull off and sell if I buy a new shotgun).

I kind of want a Saiga 12, but there are some downsides.  I'll get into that later.  Check this out: http://www.tactical-life.com/online/exclusives/remington-r12-police-semi-auto-shotgun/

REMINGTON R12 POLICE SEMI-AUTO SHOTGUN

Posted by Jorge Amselle.
Ultra-fast scattergun designed for mean-streets performance (with video).



Remington’s innovative Versa Max shotgun has been out for a while and a tactical version is in the works, but new from Remington Defense is the R12 Police version of the Versa Max, which we recently had a chance to test. Like the standard Versa Max, the R12 uses a unique gas system that allows for reliable semi-auto fire using a mix of ammo from 2¾-inch to 3.5-inch 12-gauge shells.



This Versa Port gas system also significantly reduces perceived recoil, is self-cleaning and makes the gun much more controllable even in rapid fire. The Police R12 will be available with a standard 18-inch barrel version or with a 14-inch barrel, and both feature extended magazine tubes. As the video shows, it is possible to load seven rounds in the short version. Other features will include ghost ring sights and a length of Picatinny rail on top of the receiver for optics.




The newly designed handguard will also include accessory rails at the three, six, and nine o’clock positions, which can be removed if so preferred. Standard and pistol-gripped stocks will also be available. In firing, the recoil was extremely comfortable even using full-power loads. Look for a full review in a future issue of Guns & Weapons for Law Enforcement. For more information, visit remington.com or call 800-243-9700.

***********

There's also this video:

Remington Versa Max R12 Police Shotgun


So it looks like Remington is finally coming up with a worthy replacement for the Remington 11-87.  This gun seems to be a lot smoother and faster.  It's a pretty good shotgun market right now, with this and the Mossberg being available. 

I wish both of them had shortened buttstocks, but it seems the only way to get that on a semi is to buy a gun model they make one for and put a Mesa Tactical "urbino" stock on it.

So why this over the Kel-Tec?  The Kel-Tec holds twice as many rounds, they say.  It's also still basically vaporware, is completely unproven, is clunky, is far slower to reload, and I want a semiauto.

So why this over the Saiga?  That's a toughy.  Cost and hassle, mainly.  The Stock Saiga 12 isn't that great.  To get it into a great configuration, you have to put a lot of work into it.  The magazines are very expensive, and as with any magazine-fed gun you're going to need a supply of them.  But there are some strong proponents of the Saiga 12 shotgun, like this fellow who posted a comment on the article:

Quote
Steve E Says:
April 17th, 2012 at 3:13 pm

That super low recoil is sweet, but OOPS, You just eliminated or suppressed some bad guys then ran out of ammo VeraMan. ( clock ticking as you hustle more rounds into your “shuck n chuck” antiquated load and un-load system.

Meanwhile back on the hot seat I just slapped another 10 round mag in my Saiga in 2.5 seconds and keep suppressing & eliminating the bad guys waiting for You to catch up.

Of course that ‘if’ My 20 round drum is not being used ‘wink’

Leave the Vera for the hunter / skeet shooters and the Saiga for urban defense/offense and war.


Wow, Steve.  You must get in so many gunfights.  In all the time you spend on the "urban battlefield" not firing the Saiga, but carrying it, I bet that 20-round drum is fun to lug around.  Also, I'm dubious as to his reload speed, since in most Saigas you have to hold the bolt open manually if you want to be able to insert a fully-loaded magazine longer than one of the factory five-rounders.

That's one of the downsides to the Saiga.  The other is that you're depending on imports from Russia. I remembered when all the Saigas dried up in 2008 or so.  Sure, they came back, but that's not the kind of longevity I like.

I'd still like one.  The R12 is giving it some stiff competition though.  Not that I can afford a new shotgun now, but someday.
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HiVelSword

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Re: Remington R12 Versa Max Police
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2012, 04:14:24 PM »
6+1 and stubby looking. I like it!

EDIT! Hey, waitaminute!!! That's a 14" gun. Only explanation is that it holds a shell on the carrier a la Benelli Super 90 fame.

Coolness!
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Harm

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Re: Remington R12 Versa Max Police
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2012, 05:33:02 PM »
sorry its a Remington.  Not interested.
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seanp

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Re: Remington R12 Versa Max Police
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2012, 06:03:07 PM »
Hmm.  Remington semi-auto shotgun.  Hmm.  Better get a Benelli.
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Nightcrawler

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Re: Remington R12 Versa Max Police
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2012, 06:28:03 PM »
Get a Benelli and pay $600 more for a gun that comes with a neutered magazine tube?
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strangelittleman

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Re: Remington R12 Versa Max Police
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2012, 06:39:29 PM »
I like the full-size w/ conventional stock.
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Re: Remington R12 Versa Max Police
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2012, 06:45:01 PM »
The last M4 that I handled was un-castrated.

SOB, I just checked the WSS website and apperantly they are 4+1 there now too.

That's ridiculous.  I wonder if that can be easily fixed.
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Nightcrawler

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Re: Remington R12 Versa Max Police
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2012, 06:46:33 PM »
The ones in the US come with a 5-round magazine tube.  The M2 and M3 have a short tube.  The M4 has a full length false tube.  You can buy an aftermarket replacement, but it may be a 922r violation (US only). 

Benelli now has an all US M4 that costs almost $1600.00.
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Harm

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Re: Remington R12 Versa Max Police
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2012, 07:35:12 PM »
if the 1100 is an exanple it'll be in Benelli territory right quick.  "Because we're remington - and paying high dollar for a bastard offspring of your granddaddy's guns is hip!" 

Nah pay a lot less and get the Mossberg or stick w the 870 you already own.
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Kaso

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Re: Remington R12 Versa Max Police
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2012, 07:37:38 PM »
sorry its a Remington.  Not interested.
Pray-tell, why?  I thought Remington was a good brand.  :shrug

Or was that ^ your answer?


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Re: Remington R12 Versa Max Police
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2012, 11:01:20 PM »
The last Uncastrated M4 we had in was 1999.99.  Yeah... that's worth it if you are freaking LOADED, and I don't mean with ammo.

The VersaMax is a great platform.... it as a very good system of operation.  When it first came out, I said it would make for a very good tactical platform and it looks like I was correct. 
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Harm

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Re: Remington R12 Versa Max Police
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2012, 12:13:37 AM »
Pray-tell, why?  I thought Remington was a good brand.  :shrug

Or was that ^ your answer?


Kaso
  Kaso Remington was a great brand and proved themselves for generations.  But in recent years they've attempted many different corner cuts w mixed results.  And then charged even MORE money for it.  I just cant love them and given many cost savings have resulted in reliability issues i cant get excited about this gun knowing Remingtons proclivity of late for ridiculously high prices - average quality and soso reliability.  Thats w a design 60 years old - how bad will they botch a new one or charge to make it run?  See their "amazing" success w reliability in the 1100.  And you'll pay extra coin to boot.  In my opinion Remington is the aged company trading on its name rather than quality.
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GeorgeHill

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Re: Remington R12 Versa Max Police
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2012, 12:23:49 PM »
Remington is still doing a lot of things RIGHT and they are not skimping on the quality of those guns.
700's and 870's are just as good as ever - if not more so.
They have tried cost cutting measures.  Such as the SPS Stocks - and those have worked out great.  Customers are actually like them more than the old regular synthetic stocks even though the SPS stocks cost less and Remington makes more money on it.  The lower cost SUPERCELL recoil pads cost Remington less than the Limbsaver pads they had used... and it's a better recoil pad than the Limbsaver.  That's worked out very well for them.
The VTR thing though - the Triangle Barrels.  I don't see the point in those and they seem to be backing away in some areas with that, and doubling down in others. 
The R1 1911 is about as good and solid as a production 1911 can get.
And while they really screwed the pooch on the Marlins... They are now making pretty decent examples and our issues with them are rapidly thinning out.  Next year I suspect we'll see the best Marlins to ever wear the brand.

What I don't get though... Is Remington owning Marlin... Who is making the X7 series rifles which are pretty much Savage Clones... Why is Remington making Savage Clones?  And Marlin owns NEF/H&R which are importing the PARDNER pumps which are Chinese made 870 knock offs... Why is Remington then importing 870 Knock Off's?

The new VersaMax is a good solid platform.  I'm very interested in the new Police version.  There is a longer one for Civie Sales which would be great for 3Gun.  I want one.
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Re: Remington R12 Versa Max Police
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2012, 12:34:25 PM »
George,

I agree the Remington Supercell is a better  recoil pad and exhibits greater durability. 

I have found the Limbsaver pads have a propensity to "melt" into a sticky mess around the edges in reaction to synthetic shotgun case linings.  I suspect many shooters have run into this phenomena with Limbsaver recoil pads.
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Re: Remington R12 Versa Max Police
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2012, 12:43:13 PM »
A lot of common cleaning fluids will melt the Limbsavers too.  Turn them gummy.  I like the pads when shooting, sure.  But the Supercell pads are just flat out better.  I think they reduce felt recoil better too.  I wish Remington would put those on some of their thumping Marlins.
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coelacanth

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Re: Remington R12 Versa Max Police
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2012, 11:35:24 PM »
A brief clarification please - why do you think that we may see " the best Marlins ever to wear the brand" by next year? 
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Re: Remington R12 Versa Max Police
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2012, 01:08:24 AM »
Just a prediction.








 :whistle
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coelacanth

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Re: Remington R12 Versa Max Police
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2012, 01:59:42 AM »
Fair enough.  I can wait.    :whistle
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Re: Remington R12 Versa Max Police
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2012, 01:46:29 AM »
IDK George - everyone I know who's purchased a new production 870 has had issues w them.   :whistle
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Re: Remington R12 Versa Max Police
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2012, 02:15:54 AM »
IDK George - everyone I know who's purchased a new production 870 has had issues w them.   :whistle

Have a newish one (2010 vintage) never had a problem of any kind.

What I really want to see is a comparison of the Versamax and the 930spx
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Re: Remington R12 Versa Max Police
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2012, 10:45:57 PM »
what problems?

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Re: Remington R12 Versa Max Police
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2012, 10:49:16 PM »
I bought two new production 870 Tacticals and they have not had any issues.  I've sold many more and they have not had issues either.
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Re: Remington R12 Versa Max Police
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2012, 10:14:29 PM »
George:

 Regarding 3.5" chambers: Have you seen any notable degredation of pattern with 2.75" buckshot or accuracy with 2.75" rifled slugs?  The .75" jump from shell to forcing cone does look like it may be a factor.
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Re: Remington R12 Versa Max Police
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2012, 11:32:35 AM »
Just noticed in the 2nd video. Gotta be a Vang Comp +1 extension. Because the website says it's a 4+1 gun and that's 7 rounds flying out of it in the 2nd volley.

So it's 5+1+1 (one on the carrier). I really like this gun...
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Re: Remington R12 Versa Max Police
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2012, 11:50:28 AM »
George:

 Regarding 3.5" chambers: Have you seen any notable degredation of pattern with 2.75" buckshot or accuracy with 2.75" rifled slugs?  The .75" jump from shell to forcing cone does look like it may be a factor.
That's a good question.  But no, I've not seen any effect on accuracy or patterning.  One would think it would have an adverse effect, but I don't think it does.
More testing is required.
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