Author Topic: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations - (Read 116468 times)

RMc · « **Reply #200 on:** October 17, 2014, 01:55:43 pm »

Winchester has heard the music and responded with a one piece plastic wad for their buffered Super-X 9 pellet 00B load. The AA12 style wad has a deeper shot cup, is made of a harder plastic that the AA12 series wads used in AA target loads.

WeTheArmed.com

RMc · « **Reply #201 on:** October 17, 2014, 02:21:38 pm »

And not to let a good bandwagon pass by:

Winchester's Razorback XT 00B cartridge sports 8 copper plated, buffered pellets with a two piece plastic wad and just a bit more velocity:

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/alt1/450/450284.jpg

GeorgeHill · « **Reply #202 on:** October 17, 2014, 05:26:51 pm »

Oh wow... that Razorback stuff looks pretty good. What's the actual size of that 00 Buck though, I wonder.

RMc · « **Reply #203 on:** October 17, 2014, 09:11:57 pm »

Razorback XT 00B

I checked all 8 pellets in one shell and found them to be quite irregular. Measurements ran from .320" to .329" with .324" being the closest to an average. The pellet stack ranged from a stairstep of single pellets at the bottom to almost side by side in the top layer. The buffer was Winchester's signature coarse grind plastic.

Most interesting though is the use of the "Diamond Cut" shot cup. None of Winchester's online advertising displayed or even mentioned this feature. However, the back of the box pictures the Diamond Cut shot cup with drag wings deployed and pellets flying.

GeorgeHill · « **Reply #204 on:** October 18, 2014, 01:22:45 pm »

Quote from: RMc on October 17, 2014, 09:11:57 pm

found them to be quite irregular. Measurements ran from .320" to .329" with .324" being the closest to an average.

Almost as if they are making their pellets from a Drop Tower the old fashioned way...

RMc · « **Reply #205 on:** October 18, 2014, 10:02:56 pm »

Considering that Hornady and Winchester are now marketing 00B ammunition for coyote and hog respectively, I just ran across an interesting marketing twist.

Since an Academy Sports and Outdoors recently opened nearby, I pulled up their website to check out their pricing first. When I pulled up their shotshell page there was a list of hunting uses to select from. When I selected Deer only slug cartridges came up. When I selected Hog/Predator only the buckshot ammo selection came up.

Mississippi556 · « **Reply #206 on:** October 19, 2014, 03:09:51 pm »

Imitation is the finest form of flattery.

I wonder how groups from IC shotgun barrels at various ranges for these new offerings will compare to what seems now to be the buckshot standard: Federal Premium Flight Control, or Hornady VersaTite (essentially the same cup/wad, slightly shorter, licensed from Federal).

GeorgeHill · « **Reply #207 on:** October 19, 2014, 11:48:57 pm »

I guess it's too cliche to use Buck Shot on Bucks anymore.

For Yotes and Hogs, I'd think #4 Buck would be better suited. But what do I know?

Mississippi556 · « **Reply #208 on:** October 20, 2014, 09:58:16 am »

We still use it on deer here in the Deep South when hunting in deep woods and thickets where slugs or rifles done work, and where shots are short and frequently at running game. The deer can bed down in the thick stuff and sometimes you literally have to flush them out with drivers and blockers, like hunting pheasants up North. Not my preference, but you have to match the tactics and weapon to the mission.

RMc · « **Reply #209 on:** October 20, 2014, 10:26:58 pm »

Quote from: GeorgeHill on October 18, 2014, 01:22:45 pm

Almost as if they are making their pellets from a Drop Tower the old fashioned way...

I was indeed disappointed with the irregular pellets loaded in the Razorback XT 00B sample I checked. This is a higher price point, "premium" load - Winchester could do better.

GeorgeHill · « **Reply #210 on:** October 21, 2014, 08:39:42 am »

I thought the same thing when I cut open some Hevi-Shot shells... Pellets not just irregularly sized, but shaped, with conjoined pellets as well. It was rather disappointing. I've never bought a box since.

Mississippi556 · « **Reply #211 on:** October 22, 2014, 12:26:12 am »

Quote from: GeorgeHill on October 21, 2014, 08:39:42 am

I thought the same thing when I cut open some Hevi-Shot shells... Pellets not just irregularly sized, but shaped, with conjoined pellets as well. It was rather disappointing. I've never bought a box since.

And considering the high cost, they are mighty, mighty proud of that stuff. One would think that they could easily do better for little extra production cost.

GeorgeHill · « **Reply #212 on:** October 22, 2014, 12:20:29 pm »

Yup. I think it was 18 bucks a box my cost.... I don't remember, but it was the most expensive shells we stocked at that time.
And it was CRAP inside.

Here's the thing though. The stuff does pattern well, and hit hard, and does everything as advertised.
The buffer is flax seeds, so maybe that stuff is like MAGIC.

coelacanth · « **Reply #213 on:** October 22, 2014, 01:44:15 pm »

On target performance when the shooter does his/her part is usually the final arbiter of whether a hunting load is worth the money but your findings after cutting open the shell begs the question, " How the heck does THAT work?"

GeorgeHill · « **Reply #214 on:** October 22, 2014, 04:36:41 pm »

My point exactly. Everything we know about shotgunning and what it takes for good patterns - is essentially thrown out the window with the Hevi-Shot loads.

coelacanth · « **Reply #215 on:** October 22, 2014, 06:32:47 pm »

Grant · « **Reply #216 on:** October 22, 2014, 09:50:24 pm »

And take this FWIW: Amazing how each shotgun takes on a mind of it's own with buckshot.

I know it doesn't even closely compare to the controlled expansion wads:

But plain-Jane, unbuffered, super cheap Nobel buckshot patterns better than buffered (but nothing special) federal premium.

RMc · « **Reply #217 on:** October 24, 2014, 01:34:41 am »

Given the density disparity, I don't know. But lately there have been some off the wall pellet designs from little flying saucers to rounded edge square shot!

To make a proper comparison, I suspect that truly round pellet loads of Hevi-Shot would have to be tested against otherwise identical loads of the irregular Hevi-Shot in question. That would be quite an interesting ballistic investigation.

Quote from: GeorgeHill on October 22, 2014, 04:36:41 pm

My point exactly. Everything we know about shotgunning and what it takes for good patterns - is essentially thrown out the window with the Hevi-Shot loads.

RMc · « **Reply #218 on:** October 28, 2014, 03:11:47 pm »

Another shotshell manufacturer says BB size pellets are buckshot

S&B Elite Protector .410 x 3" Self Defense
Dual Pellet Load 15 "BB Buck" and 2 000 Buck

http://www.chestnutridge.com/images/inv/AS41014.jpg

GeorgeHill · « **Reply #219 on:** October 28, 2014, 04:55:19 pm »

That's funny right there.

RMc · « **Reply #220 on:** January 31, 2015, 09:33:14 pm »

Funny. Did someone mention funny?

Shades of the 1890s, Spartan buckshot ammo lists Smokeless Powder among its many features!

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AMM-890

Roper1911 · « **Reply #221 on:** February 01, 2015, 09:46:24 am »

it's low brass....
why is it low brass?

Grant · « **Reply #222 on:** February 01, 2015, 01:54:07 pm »

It says 1315 FPS but it isn't super powerful. It has good punch, but is not "hot", so it actually is low-brass-type ammo.

I like it, I use it in older shotguns mainly however.

RMc · « **Reply #223 on:** February 01, 2015, 04:27:25 pm »

Why is shotshell brass height of any importance?

Grant · « **Reply #224 on:** February 01, 2015, 06:05:06 pm »

It's tradition VS real usefulness I believe. *shrugs* I do sortof like it that it easily sorta "color codes" what shells I have if I have a mix,etc.