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Author Topic: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -  (Read 67045 times)

Roper1911

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Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
« Reply #275 on: August 17, 2016, 08:21:04 PM »
Linotype lead alloy has a 12% antimony content and runs 22 BHN.  That is harder than most commercial "hard cast" bullets. "Hardball" alloy has a 6% antimony content for approx 16 BHN. 

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletAlloy.htm



yep. thats the goal, super hard, super slick. it might shatter if you ram it through a tight enough choke.
North Carolina"it has two fire modes, safe, and most decidedly unsafe"
~Chief Warrant Leon McMurdo. Shilo Mountain Rangers, sixth battalion. Mount Hector School of Military tactics. November 8th 3451.

Yes. When the question is 1911, the answer is "yes". ~HVS

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    RMc

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #276 on: August 17, 2016, 08:45:46 PM »
    I believe you would have greater success by heat treating a 6% antimony alloy pellet to 20 bhn. The result would be a hard but not brittle pellet.

    http://www.lasc.us/HeatTreat.htm



    yep. thats the goal, super hard, super slick. it might shatter if you ram it through a tight enough choke.
    Alabama

    Roper1911

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #277 on: August 17, 2016, 09:02:39 PM »
    hmm... he mentions that he hit 30 BHN at 485f....
    i'd need to buy a bunch of stuff though.
    North Carolina"it has two fire modes, safe, and most decidedly unsafe"
    ~Chief Warrant Leon McMurdo. Shilo Mountain Rangers, sixth battalion. Mount Hector School of Military tactics. November 8th 3451.

    Yes. When the question is 1911, the answer is "yes". ~HVS

    RMc

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #278 on: January 05, 2017, 12:19:48 PM »
    My recent inquiry to Federal Premium Ammunition:

    RE: 12 gauge VITAL.SHOK BUCKSHOT HIGH DENSITY WITH FLITECONTROL WAD

    What is:
    -The diameter of these 00B pellets?
    -The weight of the 00B pellets?
    -The total weight of the 9 00B pellets?.
    -The velocity from a 18.5 inch barrel?

    -Is this load buffered?

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    (Reply:)

    The diameter of these 00B pellets? ----- .33"
    -The weight of the 00B pellets? ---- 2.4-2.5 grams each
    -The total weight of the 9 00B pellets?. ----- Approximately 3/4 oz payload
    -The velocity from a 18.5 inch barrel? ----- Published data of 1600fps is out of a 30" barrel, we don't have any data for shorter length barrels like 18.5".
    -Is this load buffered? ------ YES

    Federal Cartridge
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I suspect the diameter given is the nominal standard rather than actual.

    Pellet weight range converts to 37 - 38.5 grains each.



     
    Alabama

    Roper1911

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #279 on: January 22, 2017, 10:30:58 AM »
    has anyone had experience with Fiocchi Exacta nickle plated buck? I was looking for a source of bulk flitecontrol when I came across it.
    North Carolina"it has two fire modes, safe, and most decidedly unsafe"
    ~Chief Warrant Leon McMurdo. Shilo Mountain Rangers, sixth battalion. Mount Hector School of Military tactics. November 8th 3451.

    Yes. When the question is 1911, the answer is "yes". ~HVS

    RMc

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #280 on: January 22, 2017, 03:47:07 PM »
    Fiocchi Exacta 00B: This round has a shot cup, fold crimp, 3 x 3 pellet stack and nickel plated lead pellets of an unknown core hardness.  While I have no direct experience with this particular round, the tight, level pellet stack would not lend itself to smooth passage through much choke constriction without substantial pellet compression. So, while each shotgun is a law unto itself when it comes to patterning, I suspect the Fiocchi Exacta 00B round will perform much like most lower end buckshot rounds. That is, large short range patterns from a cylinder bore shotguns with modest improvement from IC to Mod chokes.

    As with all bulk purchase buckshot, it is best to purchase a modest amount first to test in your shotgun.

    Remember, your shotgun will not lie to a pattern board!      :D
    « Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 05:20:25 PM by RMc »
    Alabama

    GeorgeHill

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #281 on: January 22, 2017, 10:17:48 PM »
    Patterns horribly.  Cheap shell... cheap results.
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    Roper1911

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #282 on: January 22, 2017, 10:52:15 PM »
    Shame. I wonder how the nickle plated buck would proform or if a good shell...
    North Carolina"it has two fire modes, safe, and most decidedly unsafe"
    ~Chief Warrant Leon McMurdo. Shilo Mountain Rangers, sixth battalion. Mount Hector School of Military tactics. November 8th 3451.

    Yes. When the question is 1911, the answer is "yes". ~HVS

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #283 on: January 22, 2017, 11:43:55 PM »
    Plated Shot isn't the problem with that load.  Needs a bit of buffering and could use a better Shot Cup.
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    Roper1911

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #284 on: January 23, 2017, 07:27:54 AM »
    thats's what I was getting at. nickel is harder and has higher lubricity then copper. so how much would that affect terminal performance out of a good shell like a federal flitecontrol?
    North Carolina"it has two fire modes, safe, and most decidedly unsafe"
    ~Chief Warrant Leon McMurdo. Shilo Mountain Rangers, sixth battalion. Mount Hector School of Military tactics. November 8th 3451.

    Yes. When the question is 1911, the answer is "yes". ~HVS

    RMc

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #285 on: January 23, 2017, 09:44:48 AM »
    Low antimony content "soft" lead pellets are subject to severe setback deformation - plated or not.

    Alabama

    RMc

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #286 on: January 23, 2017, 09:56:54 AM »
    According to Fiocchi's advertising department:

    "We don’t need messy, expensive buffers to deliver improved patterns. Te nickel plating on our buckshots does that for us (as well as improving penetration)."

    http://fiocchi.gunsamerica.com/ammunition/hunting-shotshell/

                                                                        ::)
    « Last Edit: January 23, 2017, 10:13:50 AM by RMc »
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    GeorgeHill

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #287 on: January 23, 2017, 10:03:15 AM »
    So choke it like steel, for one. 
    And for two... It's still on par with Wolf 00 Buck.
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    Grant

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #288 on: January 23, 2017, 05:02:30 PM »
       Pattern it.  it all depends.

    Buffered Winchester did squat in my shotguns.   The nickel-plated Fiocchi you mentioned grouped well for me, as did unbuffered Nobelsport. 

     There is no alternative to flite-control.   However some rounds to incredibly well out of certain shotguns.

      I myself have never and will never purchase flite-control.   The ranges I want a shotgun for I want semi-rapid group dispersion.   

     

       
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    Mississippi556

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #289 on: January 23, 2017, 10:47:25 PM »
    Federal FliteControl is the best.  Hornady has a Critical Defense load with "Versatite" wad and cup.  It is licensed from Federal and is almost, but not quite the same as the FliteControl wad and cup.  In side-by-side testing in my barrel it was as tight at 15 and 25 yards, but opened a bit more at 50.  If you can find the Hornady load on sale for less, it is a reasonable alternative.  It is 8 pellets of 00B, rather than the 9 in the FC load, so it was hard to fairly compare.  The FC wad does carry down range farther, which may explain the slightly tighter groups.
    Mississippi"When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe"  Words of Jesus, Luke 11:21 (ESV).

    MTK20

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #290 on: January 24, 2017, 11:58:17 AM »
       Pattern it.  it all depends.

    Buffered Winchester did squat in my shotguns.   The nickel-plated Fiocchi you mentioned grouped well for me, as did unbuffered Nobelsport. 

     There is no alternative to flite-control.   However some rounds to incredibly well out of certain shotguns.

      I myself have never and will never purchase flite-control.   The ranges I want a shotgun for I want semi-rapid group dispersion.   

     

     

    I agree with you Grant. Let's not forget the purpose of a shotgun is to throw shot. If I want a tight, single hole, then I can use slugs.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #291 on: January 24, 2017, 12:09:13 PM »
    I don't know.  Tight patterns are nice.  They extend your range, while sacrificing nothing in stopping power.  In my mind, the spread of shot is a shotgun's biggest downfall.  After watching that Winchester X video, I might even say one solid ounce of lead *that stays in the perp* beats all. :whistle
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    MTK20

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #292 on: January 24, 2017, 12:28:47 PM »
    I don't know.  Tight patterns are nice.  They extend your range, while sacrificing nothing in stopping power.  In my mind, the spread of shot is a shotgun's biggest downfall.  After watching that Winchester X video, I might even say one solid ounce of lead *that stays in the perp* beats all. :whistle

    Well, yes, given that purpose- I would agree. I would either want shot that spread or a solid ounce of "stay put", but having shot that sticks together just seems like a half measure then  :neener.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Roper1911

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #293 on: January 24, 2017, 02:18:34 PM »
    I want shot that sticks together until it hits. Then hamburgers the internal organs. Over penetration isn't too much of an issue here. But I'd still rather have 00 then a slug.
    North Carolina"it has two fire modes, safe, and most decidedly unsafe"
    ~Chief Warrant Leon McMurdo. Shilo Mountain Rangers, sixth battalion. Mount Hector School of Military tactics. November 8th 3451.

    Yes. When the question is 1911, the answer is "yes". ~HVS

    RMc

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #294 on: January 24, 2017, 06:01:19 PM »
       
    The ranges I want a shotgun for I want semi-rapid group dispersion.   

      :-\

    At hallway distances, none of the pattern enhancing developments in buckshot ammunition, (at least since the mid-19th century introduction of the pin-fire breech loader), make any meaningful difference.
    Alabama

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