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Author Topic: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -  (Read 68859 times)

RMc

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Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
« Reply #100 on: November 10, 2012, 09:35:09 PM »
Hornady has entered the twelve gauge 3" magnum realm of the predator hunting market with BB and 00B loads.  This particular video focuses on coyote hunting and uses the 1.5 ounce BB shot version to illustrate how effective this round is out to a noted 50 yard range.  This is the first time, (as far as I can determine), that a 00B round has been marketed as a predator hunting round. Notice, however, the 12 pellet 00B version is only mentioned in the video - not directly shown in use. 

Now I applaud Hornady for introducing a 00B round aimed at predator hunting, because it apparently marks the industry's public acknowledgement that 00B can be made to pattern consistantly tight enough to recommend its use on the relatively small vital area of coyote size game out to extended shotgun ranges.



Here is the product announcement from Hornady:

http://www.hornady.com/store/12-GA-Heavy-Magnum-Coyote-00-Buck-3/
« Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 10:43:02 PM by RMc »
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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #101 on: November 11, 2012, 04:08:38 PM »
    That's a load that has a lot of potential uses.  May have to try some of that.
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    GeorgeHill

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #102 on: November 11, 2012, 08:20:50 PM »
    Ooh a smack at "HEVI-SHOT".  LOL.  I like that. 
    While I like Hornady, and I like the direction this is going... I think I like Federal's BLACKCLOUD better.  For the BB load anyways.  And Federal Tactical for the 00 Buck load with the Flight Control Wad.

    Unless this stuff is just as good for a lot less money.
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    RMc

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #103 on: November 11, 2012, 09:35:25 PM »
    Ooh a smack at "HEVI-SHOT".  LOL.  I like that. 
    While I like Hornady, and I like the direction this is going... I think I like Federal's BLACKCLOUD better.  For the BB load anyways.  And Federal Tactical for the 00 Buck load with the Flight Control Wad.

    Unless this stuff is just as good for a lot less money.

     :scrutiny... "Hevi-Shot"... :bash

    ------------------------------------

    Federal's BLACKCLOUD BB is a "cutting edge", (pun intended), steel shot load vs the Hornady nickle plated high antimony Lead - both in Flite-Control/VersaTite wads (same wad-different name). I suspect the cost factor will be close - depending on the marketing strategy. The heavier lead pellets will maintain velocity and penetration further downrange.

    The 3" Heavy Magnum Coyote 00B from Hornady is a full power 12 pellet hunting load directly comparable to Federals 12 pellet 00B 3" Flite-Control load. The most direct difference I can discern, is the Nickle plating vs Copper plating on the Hornady and Federal pellets respectively. 

    However the most important difference, in my estimation, is Hornady's Marketing approach which links Predator Hunting with 00 Buckshot and 50 yard effectiveness.


    « Last Edit: November 11, 2012, 09:49:02 PM by RMc »
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    RMc

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #104 on: November 12, 2012, 08:49:35 PM »
    Another example of how "shocking" claims of 50 yard buckshot performance appear to many in the shooting media.  :coffee

    "Hornady claims these loads are good to 50 yards as they use a special Versatite wad that provides tighter patterns at longer distances.    ...a lot better than the 25+ yards I am used to with “standard” 00-buck loads."

    http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2012/11/07/hornady-heavy-magnum-coyote-shotshell-ammo/

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    sohmdaddy

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #105 on: November 18, 2012, 02:16:36 AM »
    Yeah that Versatite wad is basically the same as the flight control wad. I'm amazed it's taken so long for this idea to take off.

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #106 on: November 18, 2012, 06:53:36 PM »
    From that article:
    Quote
    I’ve never hunted coyote, much less done so with a shotgun.  Assuming there are no hunting restrictions, I would think an AR chambered in .223 would be an excellent coyote gun.
    Yeah guy, but the point of the whole article is about Hornady's new Shotshell, not your ignorant opinion on something you have just said you don't know jack squat about.
    The use of the word "Claims" indicates that the writer doesn't believe Hornday.  Because, as he has said, he doesn't know much about the stuff.
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    RMc

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #107 on: November 21, 2012, 10:45:25 PM »
    It is amazing to see what is and is not considered a legal "method of take" for deer hunting.

    Take Missouri for instance:

    http://mdc.mo.gov/hunting-trapping/regulations/deer-regulations


    "Methods allowed during all portions of the firearms deer season, except the alternative methods portion:

    •Centerfire pistols, revolvers or rifles using expanding-type bullets. Legal ammunition includes lead bullets, copper bullets and bullets made of other material designed to expand.
    •Shotguns (including .410) with slugs only
    •Air-powered guns, .40 caliber or larger, charged only from an external high compression power source (external hand pump, air tank, or air compressor)
    •Muzzleloading or cap-and-ball firearms, .40 caliber or larger and capable of firing only a single projectile at one discharge; in-lines and scopes are allowed.
    •Multiple-barreled muzzleloading or cap-and-ball firearms and/or muzzleloading or cap-and-ball handguns, including revolvers, .40 caliber or larger, are allowed and may be carried in addition to a muzzleloading or cap-and-ball rifle.
    •Longbows, compound bows or recurve bows of any draw weight; hand-held string releasing devices, illuminated sights, scopes and quickpoint sights are allowed.
    •Crossbows
    •Atlatls, which are defined as a rod or narrow board-like device used to launch, through a throwing motion of the arm, a dart 5 to 8 feet long

    Methods prohibited (in use or in possession)

    •Self-loading firearms with capacity of more than 11 cartridges in magazine and chamber combined
    Ammunition propelling more than one projectile at a single discharge (such as buckshot)
    •Full hard metal case projectiles
    •Fully automatic firearms"

    -----------------------------------

    The advancements in buckshot performance / lethality continue to be lost on the rule makers - even in the quest to make just about every other possible method legal.
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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #108 on: December 06, 2012, 10:26:23 AM »
    Hornady lists its Dead Coyote "BB" round as a Buckshot load.   :hmm

    http://www.hornady.com/store/Buckshot-c-369/
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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #109 on: December 06, 2012, 10:31:41 AM »
    Hornady lists its Dead Coyote "BB" round as a Buckshot load.   :hmm

    http://www.hornady.com/store/Buckshot-c-369/
    Well, that's because they offer it in both.
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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #110 on: December 06, 2012, 10:38:20 AM »

    I'm not impressed with Hevi-Shot.  I'd love to get some of the Hornady's and cut them open.
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    RMc

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #111 on: December 06, 2012, 06:49:18 PM »
    Hornady lists its Dead Coyote "BB" round as a Buckshot load.   

    http://www.hornady.com/store/Buckshot-c-369/

    -----------------------------------------------------------

    I should have said Heavy Magnum Coyote for the Hornady round.
    The pellets in the Hornady round are nickle plated high antimony lead pellets. 

     Dead Coyote is the moniker for a tungsten based load put out by Hevi-Shot.

     
    « Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 07:44:30 PM by RMc »
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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #112 on: December 09, 2012, 01:21:48 PM »
     Personally, I'd like to see some expanded #4 buck loads.    00 Buck gets a little thin at long range, and the BB don't pack the punch.

      Dad shot a coyote this morning at long-range with his 10 gauge and it knocked him down, but he kept going.     First time he's been using lead BB, and at that range (70 yards) he's flattened numerous dogs with #4 buck.

    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

    RMc

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #113 on: December 09, 2012, 04:02:02 PM »
    Personally, I'd like to see some expanded #4 buck loads.    00 Buck gets a little thin at long range, and the BB don't pack the punch.

    What minimum pattern/maximum range standard would you consider effective for coyotes with 00B and also with #4B?
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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #114 on: December 09, 2012, 09:08:15 PM »
     I will say our methods aren't very...ah...scientific...they involved shooting 00 buck at large blank trees or scrap metal siding and then seeing where a coyote might escape a pattern.

      By 60 yards, the pattern is either tight enough that closer is TOO tight for fast-moving shots, or wide enough that only 1 or 2 pellets be on a coyote at that distance.    VS with his 10 gauge, loaded with 54 pellets of #4 buck he's had several 70 yard shots with 4-5 pellets on coyote.   With 00 buck, possibly only a leg, or gut wound? 
     
      One note though:  Dad's coyote guns are all 10 gauge, which somewhat sets them apart from "normal" 12 gauge loads (3.5" 12 gauges are non-existant around here, more 10's actually).   00 Buck MIGHT...be acceptable with his 10 gauge SXS, one barrel modified, one full.   However we've just had SUCH good results with #4 buck, we'd like to stick with it. 
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

    RMc

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #115 on: December 10, 2012, 07:41:54 PM »
    It would be interesting to see what those 70 yard #4B patterns looked like from that big 10 bore.
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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #116 on: December 10, 2012, 11:13:47 PM »
    right now we aint set up for shotshell loading so every round is precious, no patterning :)
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #117 on: January 14, 2013, 11:31:20 PM »
    Well it looks like Hornady has been promoting - in a subtle way - the role of buckshot in settled area deer hunting. 

    Yes - in Montana!

    http://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/scrapbook/critical-defense-vs-montana-mulie-skyler-roope

    http://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/scrapbook/critical-defense-vs-montana-whitetail-darian-roope
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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #118 on: January 18, 2013, 01:41:16 AM »
    Hornday Zombie Max 12 Gauge:   9 pellet 00 Buck at 1600FPS instead of the normal 1350 for 00 Buck by everyone else.
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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #119 on: January 18, 2013, 10:47:13 AM »
    That'll leave a mark...
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    RMc

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #120 on: February 10, 2013, 05:59:08 PM »
    Another DRT deer hunt in a "semi-rural" setting.  Notice the house in the upper right hand corner of the screen and pick up the shot at the .40 frame. This with 00B, load unknown and the shot with camera distance distortion is most likely under 40 yards.  As I noted earlier, stand hunting with buckshot is becoming quite common in many areas. This with today's tight patterning loads is changing how many view the effectiveness of conventional size buckshot on deer size game.

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #121 on: February 10, 2013, 08:40:14 PM »
    Pole Axed. 

    Another reason that I love Shotguns.
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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #122 on: February 11, 2013, 05:12:20 PM »
    Speaking of 12 GA Heavy Magnum® Coyote 3" Buckshot Buck:

    Hornady would do well to expand this line to include a 16 pellet true #1 (.30" diameter, 40 grain pellet) Buckshot round.  Sixteen pellets of true #1B weigh in right at 1.5 ounces.

    To round out the market coverage of this 3", 1.5 ounce, 1300fps, - VersaTite Wad - buckshot line a 32 pellet load of high antimony nickel plated #4B (.24", 20.7 grain) pellet loads would have a strong appeal to the predator hunting crowd.

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    RMc

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #123 on: February 14, 2013, 10:23:13 AM »
    In looking at the Hornady's shotshell line, I noticed there was never any mention of the use of a buffer material. So I sent the following inquiry to Hornady:

    "Are your shotshell loads, Buckshot, Coyote and Turkey, buffered?
    Your online catalog and website make no mention of the use of buffering material."

    Here is their reply:

    --------------------------------------------

    From: Hornady Manufacturing, Inc
    Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 8:39 PM
    To: tech
    Subject: "Technical Inquiries" Contact from Ralph McLaney

    Ralph,
    We make no reference to the buffering because we do not use any in our factory turkey, buck, and coyote loads. We appreciate your inquiry and your business.
    Thank you

    --------------------------------------------

    Hornady then, depends entirely on the VersaTite wad, hard - high antimony content pellets and in their Heavy Magnum Coyote and Turkey series, the addition of nickle plated pellets to deliver tight patterns.



    « Last Edit: February 14, 2013, 10:38:10 AM by RMc »
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    GeorgeHill

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    Re: Over the counter buckshot loads: My observations -
    « Reply #124 on: February 14, 2013, 09:57:21 PM »
    Seems to work well enough.
    Buffering seems to be a thing of past.  With modern shot cups, pellet deformity isn't so much a concern.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

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