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Author Topic: Doing it. 14" Mossy 500  (Read 7817 times)

GeorgeHill

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Doing it. 14" Mossy 500
« on: July 31, 2015, 08:04:42 PM »
So I'm doing it.  I'm pulling the trigger.
I put a used 500 on lay away.  It was a cruiser, and then it got Mall Ninja'd. 
The Top Image below is what it looks like now.  The bottom image below is what it's going to look like when I'm done.  Eventually.
I wanted to do this with a Remington 870, as that's my jam... But I couldn't find a cheap used 870 that came from the factory with a pistol grip.  This Mossy did.  And it will be logged out of the ATF Books as an "OTHER".
So I'll be able to do that 14" mod to it without the NFA paperwork.
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    MTK20

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    Re: Doing it. 14" Mossy 500
    « Reply #1 on: August 01, 2015, 02:03:26 AM »
     :D  :thumbup1

    Shotguns. Gotta love 'em.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    GeorgeHill

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    Re: Doing it. 14" Mossy 500
    « Reply #2 on: August 01, 2015, 10:34:51 AM »
    So it looks like I've got to replace... Uh... basically everything forward of the receiver. 
     :hmm
    Barrel.
    Feed Tube.
    Mag Spring.
    Forward Grip.
    And order a Mossy 500 Shockwave grip.  I've got one for an 870. Because one day I'll find that PGO 870.
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    Kaso

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    Re: Doing it. 14" Mossy 500
    « Reply #3 on: August 01, 2015, 01:25:04 PM »
    I am not a big fan of the Mossberg-style safety, but for this one application I think it to be superior to the Remington safety.

    The 14" PGO shotgun is meant less as a fighting shotgun, and more as a 'under the truck seat' or 'over the shoulder' scabbard gun.  In my opinion, the Mossberg safety is better in these applications, because it makes up for the loss of speed with a less easily 'bumped' location and design of the safety.  In a holdout weapon, the ambidextrousness is another real plus.



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    Re: Doing it. 14" Mossy 500
    « Reply #4 on: August 01, 2015, 09:21:32 PM »
    The rig you need to go with it...

    http://www.andrewsleather.com/firepower.htm

    South Carolina
    I don't THINK I'll ever have to face down routers in the streets.

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    Re: Doing it. 14" Mossy 500
    « Reply #5 on: August 02, 2015, 01:15:16 AM »
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

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    Re: Doing it. 14" Mossy 500
    « Reply #6 on: August 02, 2015, 02:17:58 AM »
    George,

    Keep us informed on your 14" Mossberg build!  Particularly so on the parts available from Mossberg.
    Alabama

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    Re: Doing it. 14" Mossy 500
    « Reply #7 on: August 02, 2015, 02:24:42 AM »
    George,

    Keep us informed on your 14" Mossberg build!  Particularly so on the parts available from Mossberg.
    Well, this is going to be a long term project for me.  With... what 4 sons taking college classes... I'm flat out strapped.
    But I will be calling Mossberg this week and talking to them about this conversion.
    There is some controversy out there as to the actual legal status of this.  Lots of folks say its fine, others say it's not.
    Shockwave, the outfit selling the birdshead grips says it is and has an ATF Letter saying it is...
    But ATF Letters are not the law and Shockwave has a vested interest in selling those grips.
    So I'll be talking with Mossberg about it.
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    MTK20

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    Re: Doing it. 14" Mossy 500
    « Reply #8 on: August 02, 2015, 02:28:28 AM »
    Thanks for checking the legality of this. I'm interested in the Mossberg PGO, sbs's are cool, I just wanna know if I can get one sans the tax stamp.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Avenger29

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    Re: Doing it. 14" Mossy 500
    « Reply #9 on: August 02, 2015, 10:56:28 AM »
    Well, this is going to be a long term project for me.  With... what 4 sons taking college classes... I'm flat out strapped.
    But I will be calling Mossberg this week and talking to them about this conversion.
    There is some controversy out there as to the actual legal status of this.  Lots of folks say its fine, others say it's not.
    Shockwave, the outfit selling the birdshead grips says it is and has an ATF Letter saying it is...
    But ATF Letters are not the law and Shockwave has a vested interest in selling those grips.
    So I'll be talking with Mossberg about it.

    Well worst case, wouldn't it be an AOW and a $5 fee (like the Serbu Super Shortys) if you do have to go the NFA route?

    South Carolina
    I don't THINK I'll ever have to face down routers in the streets.

    I should hope not. Mobs of rogue woodworking tools would suck to repel.

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    Re: Doing it. 14" Mossy 500
    « Reply #10 on: August 02, 2015, 11:34:53 AM »
    Well worst case, wouldn't it be an AOW and a $5 fee (like the Serbu Super Shortys) if you do have to go the NFA route?
    Is that not just for transfers?  I think any Form 1 is $200.



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    only1asterisk

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    Re: Doing it. 14" Mossy 500
    « Reply #11 on: August 03, 2015, 02:43:23 AM »
    Well, this is going to be a long term project for me.  With... what 4 sons taking college classes... I'm flat out strapped.
    But I will be calling Mossberg this week and talking to them about this conversion.
    There is some controversy out there as to the actual legal status of this.  Lots of folks say its fine, others say it's not.
    Shockwave, the outfit selling the birdshead grips says it is and has an ATF Letter saying it is...
    But ATF Letters are not the law and Shockwave has a vested interest in selling those grips.
    So I'll be talking with Mossberg about it.

    It isn't a SBS and it isn't a AOW so long as it is longer than 26".  It is just a firearm. 

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    Re: Doing it. 14" Mossy 500
    « Reply #12 on: August 03, 2015, 01:42:14 PM »
    I bought one years ago (part of my avatar), according to my paperwork it is an AOW and the stamp cost 5$.  :shrug
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    MTK20

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    Re: Doing it. 14" Mossy 500
    « Reply #13 on: August 03, 2015, 06:32:13 PM »
    I bought one years ago (part of my avatar), according to my paperwork it is an AOW and the stamp cost 5$.  :shrug

    It's the grey areas that I dislike.

    If I had a shotgun as mentioned above, it'd most likely be a car seat gun and I would hate to ever be in a situation where I would need to justify the legality of owning such a device.

    Perhaps a bit strong in phrasing, but it somewhat reminds me of a De facto ban in some ways. Why must they legally complicate all the fun stuff?  :banghead
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    RMc

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    Re: Doing it. 14" Mossy 500
    « Reply #14 on: August 03, 2015, 07:52:37 PM »
    Sort of like handguns that are not "pistols" under Alabama law.  In Alabama, a handgun with a barrel of 12" or longer is not a pistol, is not covered under a concealed carry "pistol permit" and is not covered by the State prohibition on transporting a "pistol" in the passenger compartment of an automobile without a "pistol permit." Indeed, such a firearm does not fit in any category defined under Alabama law.

    As with so many laws, statutes and regulations, it is not logical.  It is also highly probable that most Alabama LE have never heard of this undefined firearms category!   :banghead

    On the other hand, I suspect it would be equally mind-boggling to most Ala. LE that a legally possessed 12 gauge Serbu Super Shorty with a barrel less than 12 inches could be legitimately carried concealed by a "pistol permit" holder!  However, carrying a concealed single action .45 Colt Buntline with a 12" barrel, even with a "pistol permit," would be unlawful! :shrug

    I am not an attorney - just a bewildered citizen - so this is not legal advice -  :doh


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    It's the grey areas that I dislike.

    If I had a shotgun as mentioned above, it'd most likely be a car seat gun and I would hate to ever be in a situation where I would need to justify the legality of owning such a device.

    Perhaps a bit strong in phrasing, but it somewhat reminds me of a De facto ban in some ways. Why must they legally complicate all the fun stuff?  :banghead
    « Last Edit: August 03, 2015, 09:04:17 PM by RMc »
    Alabama

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    Re: Doing it. 14" Mossy 500
    « Reply #15 on: August 03, 2015, 08:26:38 PM »
    For what its worth:

    OAL of an out of the box Mossberg Persuader with a shoulder stock: 39.5 inches

    http://www.mossberg.com/product/500-persuadercruiser-6-shot-50411/

    OAL of an out of the box pistol grip Mossberg Cruiser: 31 inches

    http://www.mossberg.com/product/500-persuadercruiser-6-shot-50440/

    OAL of a Mossberg Cruiser with a 14″ barrel and the Raptor Grip installed: 26.5 inches

    http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88


    « Last Edit: August 03, 2015, 08:52:41 PM by RMc »
    Alabama

    only1asterisk

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    Re: Doing it. 14" Mossy 500
    « Reply #16 on: August 04, 2015, 02:36:55 AM »
    I bought one years ago (part of my avatar), according to my paperwork it is an AOW and the stamp cost 5$.  :shrug

    Too bad you can't have a DIY AOW for $5. 

    GeorgeHill

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    Re: Doing it. 14" Mossy 500
    « Reply #17 on: August 04, 2015, 09:28:43 AM »
    Eventually what this project will morph into... Once it's assumed it's ultimate form.
    A 14" Mossy with a Magpul shoulder stock.
    So the Shockwave will be there for awhile until I do the paperwork and get it back.
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    seanp

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    Re: Doing it. 14" Mossy 500
    « Reply #18 on: August 04, 2015, 08:03:43 PM »
    I'm curious as to what you find out about the legal aspects of this.  As I recall, there were quite a few grips of this type put on 870's with 14"-16" barrels locally for the same reason.  The OAL was over 26" so legally it was considered a non-restricted firearms.
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    GeorgeHill

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    Re: Doing it. 14" Mossy 500
    « Reply #19 on: August 06, 2015, 07:14:12 PM »
    Mossberg hasn't gotten back to me about this.
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    MTK20

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    Re: Doing it. 14" Mossy 500
    « Reply #20 on: August 06, 2015, 07:58:44 PM »
    Mossberg needs to get their stuf together, don't they know they have an eager forum populace awaiting their answer?  ;)
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

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    Re: Doing it. 14" Mossy 500
    « Reply #21 on: August 10, 2015, 10:19:09 AM »
    SeanP, it can only be done to a receiver that was either assembled as part of a PGO "handgun" or a receiver that has never been assembled into a firearm. 
    Get these bodies together...five or six of 'em, all laid out on the front of our ship. Put Book front and center, he's our friend and we should honor him. Kaylee, find that kid who's taking a dirt nap with baby Jesus, we need a hood ornament.

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    Re: Doing it. 14" Mossy 500
    « Reply #22 on: August 11, 2015, 08:54:34 PM »

    OAL of a Mossberg Cruiser with a 14″ barrel and the Raptor Grip installed: 26.5 inches

    http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88


    With my Knoxx Breacher's Grip it's 26.2

    So I definitely want the 14" kit myself.
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    Re: Doing it. 14" Mossy 500
    « Reply #23 on: August 12, 2015, 09:57:05 PM »
    You might have better luck contacting Black Aces Tactical as they will be selling an 8.5" non-NFA "shotgun" and have dealt with the ATF about this and would know how a "shotgun" has to have been sold to alter the barrel length.

    http://www.blackacestactical.com/#!product/prd3/3250932101/black-aces-tactical-dt
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    GeorgeHill

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    Re: Doing it. 14" Mossy 500
    « Reply #24 on: August 12, 2015, 10:41:54 PM »
    I have a mossy that's sold as "Other".  From the factory with a pistol grip.  I'm good on that count.
    I just need:
    1.  Shockwave Tech Grip.
    2.  14" Barrel.
    3.  Matching Feed Tube.

    And no, Mossberg still hasn't responded.
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