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Author Topic: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--  (Read 41565 times)

hubel585

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Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
« Reply #75 on: March 31, 2013, 12:21:37 AM »
Here is picture of a bunch of the sabots  with different slugs and bullets.
Back Row- Two roundball load, balls 285gr each-- pointed long  700 gr -- a blunt
solid 700gr-- tungsten slug 1000gr --- jacketed bullet -- 600gr.
2nd row-611 Lyman 530gr Minie- 500gr flat base- Lee 500gr hard--Lee 500gr soft
1st Row- Lyman 440gr old style minie-- Lyman 510 gr new style-- 440gr from Dixie
Gunworks--  400gr Lee target style. I like 440gr old style and 440 gr Dixie. For sale
on Gunbroker is all sizes and weights.. Or cast your own. Lots of moulds around.
Lee moulds only 20 bucks. Best diameters to use are .574    " to .577" Minies.
If you have ones bigger and they are not hardened you can roll them betweem two
hard surfaces and they will get little smaller. I have some that are .585"  440gr
and work in my 585HE and they can be rolled smaller.



Here are sabots with variety of seals/wads, and the shortest one in picture  with
white felt wad just fits  in 3" case with 80gr 4759, and still leaves room to roll crimp.
I compress it in hard. Now only faster powder than 4759  I'd use is Alliant Steel in
smaller amounts,   50gr Steel, in 3", and  thicker wads and cushions like shown.
To roll crimp over the top edge of sabot we had .220" of case before crimping.
You only have to crimp top edge of sabot real good.




After crimping the slugs are tight and don't move around. The circular rib inside the
sabot holds slugs  tight back into the base. Speeds over  2000 fps
will  be  gotten using 3.5" plastic cases, with our slower powder loads. .
More testing for accuracy yesterday, a warmer, calmer day, with steel sights.
Hit. paper plate at 50 yds.

As said above, best to use right powders. Right slower powders( not fast shotgun),
that get to peak pressure slower, thus can  use larger amounts, can get to higher
 velocities, and you won't tear up the sabots and won't expand cases as much.

 For most of you in 2.75" and  3" cases Alliant Steel is best.
FOR 440GR SLUGS IN SABOT---For 2.75"  start at  40gr and go up to about 50.
For 3" start at 45gr  go up to about 55. I like 3.5" best as you can load  much easier
for speed, still have more cushion wads. Start with 50gr Steel, go up to about 62.
Case brands act different, but using the slower powders minimizes the differences
and keeps us away from surprizing pressure problems.

In 3" plastic,most 4759 I can get in and still have 1/4"cushion is 80gr.... In the 3.5"
I can get in 105 gr with this sabot and get over 2000 fps, In these loads if using
480-500gr cut back 3 gr. These 58cal slugs can be cast or they are at Dixie Gunworks
and 4 guys on Gunbroker got them.  Get ones .574" to  .577"


Interested in sabots---      gunowner at journey.com         Ph-   1-989-644-5228
THE undersize blue ones sold elsewhere for 34 bucks a hundred plus postage.
Ours are 33 bucks per 100  postage included.
Or $20 for 50 postage included..
.Or 150 for $45 postage included----- ALL with a bonus 
WE WILL send along 10 slugs with 100 order,  5 with 50 order. 15 with 150 order.
to show you what to get and to test with. Slugs can be 440gr or 500gr......Ed

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    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #76 on: April 04, 2013, 03:17:09 PM »
    Here is picture of 45-50yd target, used a scoped  NEF Ultra, the sabot load of a 440gr
    58cal slug in it at 1800... Measures 2.5" on outside for 3 shots.



    Here is pic of almost 2100 of them. More coming. Time to
    get them and get loads working.



    And A little funnin humor for us big bore nuts..Ed


    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #77 on: April 09, 2013, 03:45:41 AM »
    Some more info about our sabots and various slug weights......
    First and most important is our sabots fitting  real tight like the Accutip
    Sabots, they will not get the same speed at the same pressures as
    the undersize grey and blue ones, But they do leave the barrel
    headed straighter and without damage, even with hollowbase 58cal
    slugs in them as the pics above show. No cards under slugs in sabots.,
    But with good powder seals, using Alliant Steel, and good 1/4" minimum
    cushion wads.

    The 440gr Minie slug of .575"  in the 3" cases is the one I used as a
    base loading, to work each way by weight to find what loads of
    Alliant Steel work and extract in my NEF.  Using  3" soft base cases.
    Here is pic of before/after of Fiocchi cases, on right unfired and left
    fired, 55gr Steel with 440 gr slug.



    For 440gr max of  55gr Steel
    For 400gr max of  57gr  Steel
    For 360gr max of  59gr  Steel

    For 490gr max of 52gr  Steel.
    For 510gr max of 49gr  Steel
    For 540gr max of  47gr  Steel.

    I tested all these weights for extraction. It is real nice to reach into a
    bucket, grap a sabot that fits right, and go to loading and shooting.
    Many of you need to get in on the fun.
    Here is picture of Fiocchi with sabot, roll crimped. The top of sabot is
    perfect for roll crimping...It is setting under crimp tool in drill press.



    Earler I showed the  585HE  Falling block with pistol grip and the light
    barrel. Here it is with Knoxx Compstock buttstock. We added  2 extra
    springs inside for relatively hard recoiling gun, as stock originally made
    for a REM 870 Pump. Works great and looks nice; will putting one on
    the Magtech 585HE singleshot break action and got one in rifle stock
    for Ruger 77 in 585HE.



    And many guys want wildcats with shoulders, with big neck down, so
    in developing the ultimate 700 blaster, here is the 700HSM. Shown next
    to Gibbs 650gr ball powder..1000gr at 3800...How about that.
    Will be one of only  2 guns I plan on being over 30 lbs, other is 2bore..
    Whoppee.....Ed





    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #78 on: April 30, 2013, 12:58:47 PM »
    The sabots aren't moving and I got to get funds out of
    them asap, emergency bill coming... And seeing as how
    we're low on slugs to send with the sabots, in big numbers,
    and no one has yet to buy out our stash of sabots and
    set up so they can be selling the sabots, we will try selling
    them fast in next few weeks . So to get these moving
    out fast and getting tested, and we pay our bills,we will
    be having sale on just the sabots, in larger amounts only.
    We will send one each of 440gr and 500gr slug so
    the guys can see what we have found that works.

    Because of the shipping costs and boxes that 2, 3, or 4 bags
    of sabots fit in, that has an affordable postage cost to pay,
    we have to sell these in 200, 300, and 400 size orders..
    So, 200 sabots $47 Shipping included,
    300 sabots $65 Shipping included...400 for $83 shipping incl.

    Now 200 of the other brand X of undersize ones cost $68
    plus shipping. There was dozens of guys the last few
    years all over the internet that bought undersize junk,
    that wanted good sabots and complained that the ones
    they bought elsewhere didn't work...... I haven't heard
    from most of them, So guys see if you got time, please
    help us out here..MO, Check, Paypal..Ed

    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #79 on: May 08, 2013, 02:46:50 AM »
    The sabots work in brass cases .First is sabot in a Magtech brass case,
    next to 3" plastic.. In shorter brass it would hold about as much powder
    as in longer plastic if loaded like in the picture..
    Sabots are about .734-735" with slugs in them, and
    the Magtech brass with its thin sides still is slightly small OD at the
    top compared to plastic, with sabot wedged in.



    Next is sabot in RMC case, and sides are full thickness like plastic cases
    at the mouth, so don't expand case to hold sabot. We have RMC make case
    mouth ID to fit sabot. Sabot being little over fits barrels tight and rifling
    impresses into plastic well and gets best spin, and being tight it leaves barrel
    straight, with petals opening evenly. Brass case mouths are tight enough that
    we push sabot in with a press.Saves trying to crimp heavy RMC case.



    Here is picture of a barrel and barrel on a gun from 20 gauge singlshots  that
     will have the heavy 20ga rifled barrel in picture, mono-blocked into them.



    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #80 on: May 26, 2013, 03:21:27 PM »
    What causes sabot problems/inaccuracy. Some pictures will help.
    First 2 shows a skinny post that pushes on a cushion or sabot
    bottom and it can bend or deflect which if that way when exiting
    barrel can start sabot or slug crooked.





    And more important item that can cause  lack of accuracy is if
    base of discarding sabot tapers or steps down so that it isn't real
    tight as it leaves bore, which can allow it to be cocked.
    On the left is our sabot which has base right and other brand
    which tapers a bit. Easy to see.



    Next is a ball and slug load in 2 of our sabots. A 285gr .575" ball
    flattened, put in the bottom and  400gr Minie above, two different
    styles of Minies.



    Here is couple 16ga discarding sabots I made from the undersize
    12ga grey ones. Didn't have to take off much. Much better use
    for them. I made them, after Paul in Alaska asked about
    where to find 16ga ones, to see what they looked like.
    They still use 50cal slug.. Ed




     

    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #81 on: June 22, 2013, 07:12:01 AM »
    Here is 16ga discarding sabots made from grey ones with other 16ga slugs..
    20 ga factory sabot on left for comparison.



    Here is picture of 12ga wads showing good and bad support.



    Here are 2 sabots on the right with super heavy tungsten slug. It is 1100gr,
    but tungsten costs ten times what lead costs.



    Here is a sabot home defense or close range defense load setup using our
    sabot. It has  five  flattened 45cal balls in it. Flattened into a fat disc weighing
    145gr each. You'd star crimp it or use card over them and roll crimp. Like
    having a bunch of supersize flat buckshot, only super big.



    Here is comparison picture of the 58cal slugs used in our 12ga sabots, with the
    puny slugs used in many other sabots. And we've moved 5500 of the sabots.
    Deer season is coming fast. Maybe time to get loads tested/sighted in is now.



    Some more figures. The 24hr Campfire forums is first one, with our 12ga FH thread,
    to get over half million  thread  views.The HighRoad  second.
    TheFiringLine  third. AR fourth...Ed

    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #82 on: July 05, 2013, 07:48:36 PM »
    We have moved few thousand sabots.More here.
    Here is picture of an 8ga wad with tube slug in it, we made.



    A pallet load of our 585HE cases has arrived in the US
    and will be here in little while. And should be another pallet
    of them this fall. Here is picture of our 585
    with the solid turned  CEB bullets in them.



    Here is some helpful, simple math to help figure out the kinetic energy
    of your loads, just by having bullet weight and speed.
    Just put these multipliers which are used for each speed, on a list
    and multiply by the bullet weight in grains. Fast and easy.Ed

    Speed..Multiplier
    1500------5
    1600------5.7
    1700------6.42
    1800------7.2
    1900------8
    2000------9
    2100------9.8
    2200------10.75
    2300------11.75
    2400------12.8
    2500------13.9
    2600------15
    2700------16.2
    2800------17.4
    2900------18.7
    3000------20

    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #83 on: July 18, 2013, 02:43:16 PM »
    Here is picture of current 58cal slug options that
    you can get molds for from Lyman,
    Just make sure they are .574" to .577" diameter,
    the best size for the 12ga sabots.




    A barrel of 585HE cases..Ed



    Made by Bertram and I tested them to max loads and cases hardly expanded,
    650gr over 3000 fps. The same draws used by him to make high pressure
    Cheytac cases, and to finish mine just uses belted header and cases left
    straight and trimmed longer.He makes tens of  thousands Cheytac steady all
    the time now and can make ours steady also when needed.....Ed

    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #84 on: August 21, 2013, 03:20:31 PM »

    One of our sabot testers with tight barrel, Abolt, with wide lands in
    the barrel, who couldn't do any good at all with our sabot and Alliant Steel
    and one type of slug, had to go to IMR 4759.
     It would twist up the sabot petals. Terrible accuracy.

     My guns  have NEF/Sav size barrels and worked fine with Steel as well as 4759.
    Petals open  perfect. The Abolt barrel is about .005" smaller than NEF/Sav and
    the lands over twice as wide as the NEF. And has real narrow grooves.
    Guys with Nefs say sabots open fine like ours here.

     He went to different Minie slug and our slow powder loads using
    IMR 4759 powder up to 78-79 gr and finally got down to 2.5" group, I told him
    go to max which is about 80-82 in 3" case.That barrel is like a lot of
    EU made barrels and many are replacement or add on barrels in many slug guns,
    and that is reason why it is so hard to get accuracy across the board in
    sabot shooting in all guns--Takes a lot of work.. Another tester with NEF 12ga using
    Alliant Steel with sabots got good groups like we did here. I tell guys if
    problems occur go to 4759.

    What was happening to sabot petals in the barrel, with the extra tight fit and
    wide lands were petals twisting.. The wide lands were not cutting into the  base of
    sabot like in NEF/Sav210 barrels. The twist effect of rifling was on the surface
    of petals, twisting them. It was not getting good hold on the sabot body. The
    4759 starting slower allowed the sabot to get its spin started up to speed
    with the wide land rifling and narrow grooves..It is just the opposite of
    way NEF/Sav 12ga barrels are done. with narrow lands which impress into
    the sabot base the way it is supposed to work..I showed pics above of the
    good rifling marks impressed into our sabots.

    I think after this experimenting run I feel that a lot of accuracy problems
    across the spectrum of barrels are due to barrel differences, and not just
    the differences in factory slugs and/or reloading components.

    Here is pic of bag of our 585 cases with plain head if some need them for
    wildcatting.We have quite a few. Fifteen have 585HE cases now. 585 gun
    building is accelerating. We can get folks going with 100 cases, dies, and soon
    a barrel; and shipping,  for 750...Ed




    HiVelSword

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #85 on: August 21, 2013, 11:29:17 PM »
    Fascinating stuff as always!

    I really wish someone would make a utilitarian double rifle in the good ol' US of A. Nothing super fancy. Just affordable. I'd love one in .585HE! :)
    To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

    "You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #86 on: September 15, 2013, 04:48:37 AM »
    No one can afford doubles made here.But the 585 works in all other   less costly
    action types real well. Like Enfields the easiest to make them in.

    Here is picture of our 12ga sabots with the marks that the barrel lands made, marked with
    black marker. The one with narrow mark is Savage barrel and one with wide mark is
    an  Abolt barrel.  And the ones fired in Savage and NEFs with the narrow lands the marks
    impressed into the plastic getting good bite and not twisting the petals. The one from abolt
    he used slower powder for easier start and it open petals ok, without twisting petals like
    the faster powder did for him.


    ..
    Next  is picture showing top edge of sabots. Our sabot on left you  roll crimp down over
     the inside of it a little .  We have lots of them yet.
    The other factory sabot they crimp real short and sharp
    180 degree crimp down on top of it.



    We see a use for modified 585 application in Indiana deer hunting.  Mainly shotgun only, but
    they also  allow rifles with over 35cal pistol calibers; and any over 35cal rifle with a case
    1.8" or  shorter,  usually short wildcats. So we have the the 585 HI... The  I  is for Indiana.
    Here is picture of it next to the kinda  little 500 S&W.  585 HI holds over 80 gr powder.

    Next picture is a Magtech chambered for it. Gets 440gr Minie over 2,100 fps.
    The .585"- .587" Minies of 440gr, 540gr, etc work in it, and they're good deer slugs
    We got  other guns with it going into;  bolt guns, like in the last picture,
     single shots and checking couple lever actions.
    Might work great in MNs many guys like....Ed






    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #87 on: October 16, 2013, 01:19:54 AM »
    In above post we compare the top thickness of sabots
    .Here is comparison of the thickness of the sides of two types of
    brass 12ga cases, the RMC turned case and the thinner
    Magtech drawn case. Easy to see you can't size with same dies
    and sometimes you have to use different wads..



    In posts earler in the thread you saw variety of wad columns with
    12ga sabots and here is picture of my favorite wads to go between
    seal and sabot. The white felt ones from BPI. They compress down
    evenly on firing, easy to load, decent price,



    You've seen the work on our 585HE posted. Folks ask what case
    I made first ones from and how. Here is a sketch showing the steps
    I used to make the first 585HE from long basic straight Nyati brass.
    The start of the belt step I put on the case where it is thick I do it
    in my case spinner lathe I made. Then case is lubed and run into
    couple swaging/sizing dies and comes out formed into our belted,
    straight sided, 585HE case...... It is really faster getting a big
    run of cases made in a factory.




    Shot a 12ga sabot load w/440 gr Minie bullet in smoothbore Rossi
    in 3" case, Going about 1700... ..   4" group 3 shots at 30 yds.
    Gun works fine, shoots nice. Got extra weight in the butt.
    The Minie I used is a semi-round nose. If I had the ones of same length
    with blunt nose, slightly heavier the group size would be smaller as
    they'd be more nose heavy, be like Foster slugs..Ed

    only1asterisk

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #88 on: October 16, 2013, 02:31:58 PM »
    Ed,

    Any movement on the 8ga front?  I thought the rebored NEF 10ga project was a winner.

    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #89 on: December 08, 2013, 08:47:49 PM »
    Couldn't get enough funds rounded up to set up the tooling
    and then we went onto 14 other things.

    Here is picture of the group improvement a guy had shooting our
    sabots in a real tight barrel. Actually an undersize barrel compared
    to Savage and Nef barrels. Had a wide open group with shotgun
    powder but  made it much smaller using much more
    of the slower 4759.



    There is a guy now in Canada with our sabots for guys there and
    other countries, and as well, he can ship back to here. He plans
    on supplying the .58cal slugs also for the sabots if guys can't get
    them or don't cast their own.......
    Contact is-   jeff.a.white at gmail.com
    If things work out for him he plans on getting a bunch
     our 585 cases  imported for guys to get there also.

    I got some factory 8ga kiln loads, 3 oz lead at 1800 in the long
    barrel falling block. Got box of 25 to see how they compared to the
     loads we setup.They go faster in  long barrel than in short kiln guns.
    Our favorite is 900gr in the 8ga wadcup at 2300, in plastic case.



    Here is picture of  section 585HE case showing 4 pyrodex 54cal,
    60gr equivalent pellets, with a 440 gr Minie bullet.
    Actual powder wt  is about 185gr....Goes about 2600.
    Nice cloud of smoke and really bellers out of the slow twist barrel
    barrel we set up for minies.....Top pellet I tapered a little and fit it
    inside the hollowbase of the bullet.That's how to get 4 pellets in....Ed


    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #90 on: January 01, 2014, 10:04:17 PM »
    Another use for 58cal Minie Bullets would be to setup a 24ga FH.
    Minie bullets cheap to cast and buy. We use the .575-.577" in our
    12ga sabot, and the .585-.587 in my 585HE. And you could use
    577 NE bullets also.

    For those in shotgun only areas there is a way. You can get 2.5"
    Magtech brass cases, but also you can set up a 3" chamber and use
    577NE 3" brass. Grafs shows some under 4 bucks each. Cheaper
    than getting them made. And if you set up chamber with shotgun style
    forcing cone you could shoot shorter Magtech as well as plastic cases.
    Reason to use 577 cases, they are stronger solid head, last forever,
    and can be run higher pressures and still last forever.
    You can get barrels, 58cal at Green Mtn I think. .We got some also.

    AND the first batch 585 barrels from McGowen has got here,  more 
    will be built.They are the regular 1 to 20 twist barrels, and we have 14
    that are profiled and polished, and 3 others that are straight blanks, 
    1 to 20 twist.  And 6 slow twist barrel blanks for guys doing mainly
    Minie bullet guns, and  bunch smoothbore blanks...Pictures soon.

    Here are couple  pictures of a 585HE gun a guy is doing with nice
    walnut stock. Gun has extra bedding lug and accra-glassed.
    It is an  Enfield and has single stack magazine.





    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #91 on: January 28, 2014, 01:07:14 AM »
    Here is picture of 24ga FH in the Mossberg bolt gun. On a
    Mossy 390 frame,  .585" heavy barrel, same as 24ga size.
    Chamber is set up 3" with shotgun style forcing cone,
    so it can use 2.5" plastic cases and 2.5" Magtech brass
    cases with slugs or shot and for 3" cases we use 577NE
    3" brass.  Really make a hairy  24ga using the 440gr to
    540 gr Minie bullets at 21-2400. If you take 540 Minie bullet
    mould and leave out base pin you'd have a 650gr that
    would do. All these bullets and slugs as well as jacketed and
    turned 577/585 bullets work in 24ga as well as my 585HE.
    And the smaller Minies work in our 12ga sabots. I keep
    saying 58cal is where it is at, and there are more bullet and
    slug choices in the .585 size, easy  to find,  than any other
    caliber over 458. And Minies are like 40 cents each and
    cheaper if you cast your own.




    Here is picture .585" barrels from McGowen, with other barrels.
    Most of the McGowens profiled and some straight blanks.
    Others we have are the slow twist and smooth blanks...
    In back some of the cases and die sets.



    Here is picture of an Enfield and a BBK in Hogue recoil
    reducing stocks. These stocks are the rubber coated ones with
    the easy to grip, nice pistol grip.Has McGowen 26 inch barrels,
    1 to 20 twist, barrels are heavy profile and taper
    to .980 inch at the muzzle. Guys are doing more Enfields
    and other actions through the winter. Ed



    RevDisk

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #92 on: January 28, 2014, 10:02:22 AM »
    Wow, I intend on reading all of that in a lot of detail when I get home tonight.

    I might want to bother you for some suggestions. Some friends of mine and myself bought up a very large number of CZ-BRNO RV-85 Flare Launchers in 26.5 mm (I think we bought 2% of RV085's ever made). It was built for non-standard 26.5mm loads, specifically wall penetrating CS rockets. We noticed that the RV-85 is essentially a giant rifle. Various folks are working on NFA'ing them. I plan on eventually. Until then, flares and smoke only.

    But after NFA, we'd probably love information/suggestions on solid shot or sabot projects.


    (Disclaimer: Dear BATFE, not touching or owning ANY components until I submit both of my RV-85 flare launchers to be stamped as Destructive Devices.)
    To know the darkness is to love the light,
    to welcome dawn and fear the coming night.
    - Book of Counted Sorrows

    RD dot Net

    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #93 on: February 22, 2014, 01:57:51 PM »
    We checked them out a while back and they don't seem strong enough
    for magnum type slug or ball loads. The bottom is thin where pivot pin
    is and those flare loads are a really low low pressure load only about
    half the pressure of  regular 12ga shotgun shot loads.

    Some guys in 12ga like to use the Magtech brass cases
    but the cases being brass the sides are thinner than
    plastic, and that makes loose fit in 12ga chambers.
    And cases expand a lot with heavier loaded slug
    loads, are harder to resize, wear out quicker.
    But I found that .750 hollowbase 10ga slug fits
    those cases and still chambers in regular 12ga.
    chamber, it isnt a sloppy fit.

    So If you have a 12ga smooth barrel with full length
    backbore job,  of .850" bore or bigger you could use
    the Magtech brass and .850" size 10ga hollowbase slugs.
    Now these .850" slugs won't go in a 12ga plastic case
    and chamber in regular 12ga chamber.And you do not
    fire them through 12ga regular size barrel.

    Brett in MN used the a BPI AQ slugs in his full length
    backbored 12ga and got fair accuracy as he said the wads
    under slugs expanded a lot for a decent fit.
    The 10ga slug shown in the 2.5 inch Magtech is 800 gr,
    and .850" diameter. These cases will take magnum
    pressure so you can get good speed, for what this short
    case can hold.

    It is too bad they don't make 3" and 3.5" versions.
    These 2.5" cases are easier to find and much less than
    others, so if needing brass ones you can rig up guns
    to work with them. To build a new barreled gun in actual
    12ga size, IE .729" bore, you'd make chamber to
    minimum specs so cases don't over expand.
    In the picture are 2 10ga slugs on right, like in the case,
    and 2 12ga jacketed slugs and one 12ga lead slug left.ED


     



    Here is the ytube URL again for our guy
    shooting 585HE in his NEF----By mid summer we plan on a
    pickup truck load of more 585HE cases coming in.


    TheCzechBoss

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #94 on: February 24, 2014, 02:36:26 AM »
    pm sent i been searching for yall for almost a year , you guys are doin some wonderful stuff here , well atleast for use big bore junkys  :clap
    Ohio

    TheCzechBoss

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #95 on: March 07, 2014, 06:06:28 AM »
    i was wondering were did you get your 8 gauge reloading dies at or did you made , PS i found a barrel mfg that makes 8,4,2 bore barrels btw  :thumbup1
    Ohio

    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #96 on: March 13, 2014, 02:36:18 AM »
    I made a simple die to size the 8ga kiln cases. I fire them 3-4 times
    and discard. Who makes those barrels and how much.

    Here is good simple system with big hollowbase slugs to stop
    the skirts from deforming, I found that dense dow foam works
     good, I was using glue gun but dow foam is easier, Just cut
    plugs out of foam sheet and force into the base. Make a tight
    fit, use spot of glue inside,  glue that is for foam....
    Trim off the  foam flush..In picture is 10 ga 900gr slug.



    How we get good 24ga plastic seals with protusion on
    top that fits up inside 58cal Minie base, same bore as 24ga
    and our 585HE. I get the 24ga seal by cutting apart the BPI
    24ga Brush wad, getting two seals out of each.Works great
    in plastic case giving a shorter column than other seals and
    wads, so we can get in enough of our 4759 for good speed.
    The 24ga idea is getting nicer all the time with
    the variety of cheap 58cal slugs, and good 3" brass cases,
    drawn cases, we didn't have to wait to get made.
    And all kind of guns we can use, bolt 395 Mossbergs, single
    shots of all kinds, Autos,, pumps. bolt action Savage,
    even 1887 Win and Greener MKIII,  bolt action JC Higgins. .



    Here is picture  Khan auto we setting up 24ga FH,  it is 3.5"
    model, has a 12ga barrel to change with. Being 3.5" it
    feeds/ejects through lengthened port  3" brass 24ga cases we
    made from 577NE brass. We rework back of the  bolt  for
    slightly longer stroke.Ed






    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #97 on: April 24, 2014, 12:18:04 AM »
    Here is picture of 24ga cases, loads; and some slugs and seals.
    Brass cases are 3", plastic cases are 2.5".  Brass  3" can be loaded
    to match 577NE power.



    Here is of 24ga in an 87 Win, just test gun of mine. Uses same barrels
    as our 585HE, This  one has slow twist for Minie bullets.Our guys
    have got supply of regular and slow twist barrels.



    Here is picture of the first 585HE done and shooting in Australia.
    It is owned by the poster,  'tankhunter'  on the AR forums.
    Built by his smith who has a reamer.
    Guys there can get cases from Bertram, and there will soon be three
    reamers there. There is a company there now making 585 barrels,
    Allan and Grant Swan. in Redbank, Queensland.....Ed




    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #98 on: August 16, 2014, 01:27:00 AM »
    Finally got back to forums.Been busy with 24ga FH and  585HE
    and getting 585 cases made, as many as possible...

    We are now working  a bit with 24ga FH and here is picture
    of it with our 585HE case. Both use same bullets/slugs, same
    bore barrels. Main use difference,  24ga FH  easy setup in break
    actions and 585HE in bolt actions and falling blocks.



    Picture of  non-discarding 585/24ga sabot cup I found that holds
    458 bullets and slugs tight. It had hammerhead type slug in it that
    was pulled out and they wouldn't stay in tight. Sabot was a loose fit
    in 20ga, made for 20ga, but small, so I shrunk the bottom rib,
    fits perfect, super tight, in 24ga and 585HE. Fits real tight to give
    good resistance for good ignition.



    Here is another 24ga/585 sabot that holds .452"   45cal pistol
     bullets. Made by Hornady for 58cal ML. With  250 gr bullet in 585
    will go about mach 4.



    Here is easy way to weight plastic stocks with hollow butts, use  rubber
    coated computer mouse balls, weight comes out perfect without being 
    too heavy if using that much lead.And coating keeps them quiet, and
    we hold them in with piece dense foam under butt pad....Ed





    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #99 on: September 09, 2014, 11:43:58 PM »
    First AUS buffalo killed by 585HE. By Tankhunter with his Ruger #1.

    If you use closeup on picture, you see loaded round on the buffs hide

    next to the 585HE Ruger #1.... A nice heavy barreled gun..Ed




    I put the 585 in a Savage 112, lots of room lengthwise,  figuring out an
    extractor is a  problem, but then got a look at the savage 212, the 12 ga
    one with big diameter bolt and locking lugs. Its locking lugs are bigger
    than the lugs in a big PH bolt action. So one day will do one
    on a Savage 212, and adjusting extractor to fit no problem...Ed



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