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Author Topic: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--  (Read 42315 times)

hubel585

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Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2011, 11:38:39 AM »
Here is picture of 4 long cases of
RIP's on the AR forum.
Top being a Rocky Mtn Cartridge
3.5" turned brass 20ga. In 20ga
getting these and lengthening chambers
allows use of the 3.5" 20ga plastic also.
Some factory guns are 3.5"

Next a RMC 3.5" turned brass 12ga.
Chambered for these you can use
3.5" 12ga plastic also.Some guns are
3.5" from the factory.

3rd down our 3.85" 12ga FH we made from BMG brass.
Bottom a RMC 3.85" turned brass 12ga FH case.




Next picture shows one of the old ways they locked slugs
into paper cases. Many old slugs had a wide deep groove
which made it possible to crimp that way.You can
see one of those slugs in the picture.




Testing 490gr 12ga full bore Lee style slugs in 3.5"
plastic at 2200. Works in the long barrel rifled NEF  and
the Khan 12ga 3.5" auto smooth bore.

In same guns the 570gr US-S brass slug with
locked on base at 1900 in 3.5" plastic worked also.
It is great to see a smoothbore slug like the US-S
that is as accurate as fullbore slugs from
rifled barrels.Maybe they will be imported soon
from European Cartridge.Ed

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    RMc

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #26 on: December 28, 2011, 08:15:18 PM »
    Here is picture of 4 long cases of
    RIP's on the AR forum.
    Top being a Rocky Mtn Cartridge
    3.5" turned brass 20ga. In 20ga
    getting these and lengthening chambers
    allows use of the 3.5" 20ga plastic also.
    Some factory guns are 3.5"

    Next a RMC 3.5" turned brass 12ga.
    Chambered for these you can use
    3.5" 12ga plastic also.Some guns are
    3.5" from the factory.

    3rd down our 3.85" 12ga FH we made from BMG brass.
    Bottom a RMC 3.85" turned brass 12ga FH case.




    Next picture shows one of the old ways they locked slugs
    into paper cases. Many old slugs had a wide deep groove
    which made it possible to crimp that way.You can
    see one of those slugs in the picture.




    Testing 490gr 12ga full bore Lee style slugs in 3.5"
    plastic at 2200. Works in the long barrel rifled NEF  and
    the Khan 12ga 3.5" auto smooth bore.

    In same guns the 570gr US-S brass slug with
    locked on base at 1900 in 3.5" plastic worked also.
    It is great to see a smoothbore slug like the US-S
    that is as accurate as fullbore slugs from
    rifled barrels.Maybe they will be imported soon
    from European Cartridge.Ed

    Would you address any stability issues encountered with the extreme wadcutter meplat design of the bullets shown?
    Alabama

    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #27 on: January 05, 2012, 01:39:36 PM »
    Well as long the real heavy slugs have 1 to 24-28 twist
    they are stable in flight. And in game the wide meplat penetrates
    the straightest, even better than sharp pointed ones.

    Here are couple more pictures of longer bullets
    in sabots, loaded in plastic cases, with the
    roll crimp down against the sabot. Both are
    ideas tested by European Cartridge in Greece,
    who make the US-S slugs. Both longer bullets
    pictured have the locked on base that their
    other US-S slugs have, for smooth bore accuracy.
    2nd picture shows a deep hollow roll crimper
    for doing slugs like these.Ed

     

     

    RMc

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #28 on: January 08, 2012, 10:49:06 PM »
    That you have not experienced any significant degredation of accuracy with the Extreme Meplat designs is good to know.  If your .70 inch-plus meplat bullets are maintaining stability at reasonable velocities then the rumors of Extreme Meplat instability are indeed just rumors.
    Alabama

    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #29 on: January 10, 2012, 11:41:58 PM »
    Good meplat for penetration is about 7/10 or little more bore size, the
    guys over on AR found out by testing. They have huge long thread
    over there in big bore section terminal performance.
    As far as instability in flight it isn't going to go a mile
    in super stable flight like a 50BMG sharp point bullet.
    And any bullet that comes back through the sound barrier
    when slowing down will wobble, and a blunt slug does that
    closer to the gun, and if started not very far above the speed
    of sound, will be coming back through at ranges where
    people might notice the wobble. A lot of slugs this happens at 80-100 yds
    and the groups there are worse than at50yds before wobble and 140 yds where the slug
    has lost the wobble and has settled down to straight spin...

    This picture of an RC4 brand slug I see is available
    down under. It has locked base like Brenekke.
    And locked on without discarding petals, like US-S.

    And 2nd picture is a group fired with RC4 slugs
    by fellow on NitroExpress forums from
    double 12ga, 2 left and 2 rights at 25yds.
    This shows the posibilities of smoothbores,
    rather than not trying to perfect them.

    3rd picture is a discarding sabot base, and with
    four discarding sabot carriers, with centered
    penetrating solid bullet, from France.Ed

     


     


    « Last Edit: January 10, 2012, 11:54:20 PM by hubel585 »

    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #30 on: January 18, 2012, 03:41:54 AM »
    Some more slug and sabot ideas folks are doing.

    First is a long pointed slug with locked on base,
    It goes to target with base,can work smoothbore.



    Second is picture of Hexolit sabot base slug
    with petals expanded, sure would make bad wound.



    Third shows a variety of Gualandi slugs you can
    get for reloading, and we're finding that these
    locked base slugs, Brenekke/USS style slugs, are
    giving good accuracy in smooth barrels which can
    save when doing heavy barrels.Weights shown in
    grams, get our weights in grains multiply by 15.4..Ed


    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #31 on: January 20, 2012, 04:03:11 AM »
    Here are some more sabot/slug and loading concepts.

    First is Alcan 2.75" paper case with Dixie 600gr slug,
    with the side of the case crimped into the relief/lube
    groove of the Dixie slug.The groove in the Dixie isn't
    quite as deep as the groove in the Fosbury slug shown
    in earlier post, but still seems to crimp fairly tight.



    Next are various slugs in 12ga REM sabots that take
    57 cal slugs and bullets.Those sabots are from the REM
    Accutip loadings. In picture you can see one of the
    REM 385gr jkt bullets they use. Also  is sabot
    with 20ga cast Lyman. On right sabot with hardcast 585 cal
    640gr lead bullet, the ones I use in my 585HE wildcat
    case. I sized it down a little, perfect fit.
    Also the .575 cal Dixie Gunworks lead slugs will do.

    Also shown is a long pointed 55 Boys bullet in one,
    fairly tight fit.We  cut back .3" of bullet off so it
    fit for length in sabot and is 750gr.



    Third are 3.5" brass and plastic with the REM sabot and
    the 750gr pointed slugs in them.In all the sabot work we
    and others have done, trying to get accuracy and high
    speeds together, maybe there is such a thing as too
    much plastic. IE, sabots too thick on the sides if doing
    50cal or smaller in 12ga sabots, for heavier slugs
    at high speeds. Thinner sides may discard more evenly at
    the greater pressures and violence of high speeds.
    Thin sides may have less give so that sabot grips slug
    better to impart spin in rifled  use. Example in
    smoothbore use is the USS slugs, where the brass slug
    is .629" with thin discarding petals that have proven to
    be very accurate. And with both reasonable priced sabot
    offerings the last few years being undersize, accuracy
    problems, etc,  maybe time to try something else.

    Got to find whole bunch of these sabots. Are these pictured
    12ga REMs the only 58cal ones around? I can't find others,
    and maybe we can  find where these are made. As I have
    huge numbers of the 585 slugs, which by the way I think
    is best hunting combination, without extremely heavy slugs
    which suffer for the speeds needed for longer range use.
    It is hard lead, good for big game.And my guy can make many,
    many more if needed whether for 585HE rifles
    or in sabots if we can find some.ED




    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #32 on: January 26, 2012, 12:01:51 AM »
    Some more sabot and slug ideas, discarding types
    and locked on base types.

    First picture of 20ga Buckhamer pulled apart. The bunch
    I have were pulled apart, the slug won't lock back in
    tight, into the base.



    Second is various 20ga sabot/slug ideas some using
    buckhammer sabot bases that a bunch of 458 cal lead
    slugs and jackted slugs I have, lock into real tight.
    The 458 lead ones are 400gr, jkt are 350gr.

    And I got some empty SPW 20 gauge sabots, and 20ga
    Buckhammer slugs lock into them real tight.I have
    many of these slugs. These slugs are 440gr.

    Also is 3" 20ga FED factory sabot shell and one of
    discarding  sabots out of the case. Also a 3.5" 20ga
    Hastings 3.5" load with black locked on base sabot,
    and sabots out of the case and couple 20 brass
    3.5" RMC cases.



    Next is variety of 12ga sabots with 50cal slugs
    in them.2 white and the pink sabot are FED, The black
    is Hornady, With a 50cal long bullet .
    The grey, is a BPI with .504" cast 440gr slug.
    I wish the BPI was full size like the others
    and fit rifled barrels tight for accuracy.........



    Last 12ga SPWs from Slug-R-US(30 cents ea) with various
    50 cal slugs locked in tight, and shown with one out of
    a factory load, the dark colored one. 50cal 385gr
    Great Plains ML slugs lock in perfect for a lighter
    loading. Other ML slugs  will do and a few of
    the Dixie Gunworks 50cal slugs lock in also...Ed




    mattitude

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #33 on: January 26, 2012, 04:20:52 PM »
    I just so happen to have just received my 25 box order from The Sportsman Guide (3.25/box blowout) and have already
    taken a round apart to see the steel slug. These can safely be fired through a full choke and also a fully rifled barrel with great accuracy. It features a bonded driving band around the head and a oversized tapered hollow base skirt that reminds me of a match airgun pellet. I'll be more than happy to snap some pics if anyone is interested.

    It'd be great to get ahold of these slugs unloaded too.
    http://www.ddupleks.lv/EN/ddupleks_products/show/Monolit28
    North CarolinaMedically retired Air Force (17 years, 7 months & 25 days)

    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #34 on: February 04, 2012, 12:11:09 AM »
    Yes please post picture, these on sale for how much.

    Some more slug setups and ideas.

    First is USS brand sabot that European cartridge has, without
    locked base, a discarding 12ga sabot, with .629" brass slug.
    It is as accurate in rifled barrel as its locked on base
    counterpart, in smooth barrels. Up to 750 gr brass slug
    I tested. 3 shots in an inch, 30yds.
    Shown with BPI powder cup seals.





    2nd is the USS slugs with locked on base for comparison.
    With corresponding length cases they were designed for.





    3rd are heavy solid tungsten slugs, the smaller .580" cal and
    1200gr, the bigger ones .660" cal and 2200 gr.
    A guy in Southern  MI made a few for me to check out. Now these
    too hard to fire fullbore, damage rifling, must be in plastic. 
    These are just what the super heavy slug guys might like.





    4th is a 1000gr 58cal tungsten slug in a 12ga REM style
    58cal sabot. Notice how short it is for being super heavy.


    Roper1911

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #35 on: February 04, 2012, 10:29:45 AM »
    3rd are heavy solid tungsten slugs, the smaller .580" cal and
    1200gr, the bigger ones .660" cal and 2200 gr.
    A guy in Southern  MI made a few for me to check out. Now these
    too hard to fire fullbore, damage rifling, must be in plastic. 
    These are just what the super heavy slug guys might like.




    4th is a 1000gr 58cal tungsten slug in a 12ga REM style
    58cal sabot. Notice how short it is for being super heavy.



    tungsten shotgun slugs? what are you killing- robotic, armored, fire-breathing deer possessed of Satan?
    I want some- badly. WHY MUST I BE BROKE!?!?!
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    akodo

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #36 on: February 04, 2012, 03:21:09 PM »
    wow tungsten slugs!  Aside from the above mentioned robots and dragons, I am guessing these are really more for bear defense than taking white-tails, right?

    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #37 on: February 13, 2012, 04:26:34 AM »
    They good for Buff, Rhino, Elephant, car blocks.

    Here is some more older cartridges and ideas.
    First is a fellows collection of older brass cases.
    They look like Berdan primed. Run from
    36ga to 12ga, big one on right is flare cartridge.



    Second is a paper case clad with
    thin  brass nearly to the top.



    Third is picture of paper case crimped into
    the side of a slug with shallow grooves.I did one
    pictured above with a Dixie slug.



    Some experimenting with 12ga discarding style sabot idea
    that takes 58cal slugs/bullets.I pictured them above.
    A fullbore,bore fitting sabot that takes 575-580 cal
    slugs or bullets, cast or jacketed.

    For reloaders to use, and not undersize ones
    that have been available, for reloading guys. That
    the guys haven't been able to get speed and accuracy
    at the same time. These sabots are super accurate in
    most tests, in factory Remington sabot loads. Much
    more so than the undersize sabots reloaders have
    had to work with.

    I tested with the 440 gr .575cal hollowbase
    Dixie Gunworks # BA-1103 lead slug and 3 shots from
    heavy long  barrel NEF nearly into same hole, at
    30yds. Gun locked down. Going about 2200.
    Our slow powder loads in 3.5" plastic.
    Can be loaded faster.

    No tests at long range, bad eyes/no scope, colder
    than witches ---, and no time.
    I am trying to find who makes these.There are
    about 2000 injection mold companies in US.Ed


    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #38 on: February 22, 2012, 05:25:48 AM »
    Another 12ga sabot idea, first picture is a 570 gr USS slug,
    with Powder Cup seal from BPI, locked to USS discarding sabot
    section. This shortens column so that we can get more of the
    slower powders in we use, in shorter 2.75" cases. With slower
    powders, they get to peak pressure a little easier
    so that the cushion usually between seal and sabot/slugs
    isn't needed. This locked on seal will aid in smoothbore
    accuracy and it will work of course in rifled barrels.
    This sabot has a peg on the back that locks it in original
    setup to the green USS cushion base/seal, and we just pried
    it apart and drilled tight hole to match in the Powder Cup
    seal, and forced it on for a locked fit..
    Slug is .629" diameter.

       

    Next picture is 3 sizes of first USS sabot slugs, with
    the locked on bases which work good with them. Giving
    nearly rifle accurracy in smooth bores.

     

    Here is old time picture of couple of Rodda 4 bores.
    Man what nice old guns.

     

    Next picture is a 1.5" Minie ball slug, might work  for
    close to a one gauge. It is next to older 37mm case which
    might fire it also. Maybe a way to make a one gauge of
    sorts, if.......I get enough ambition...Ed


    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #39 on: February 22, 2012, 05:26:29 AM »
    Another 12ga sabot idea, first picture is a 570 gr USS slug,
    with Powder Cup seal from BPI, locked to USS discarding sabot
    section. This shortens column so that we can get more of the
    slower powders in we use, in shorter 2.75" cases. With slower
    powders, they get to peak pressure a little easier
    so that the cushion usually between seal and sabot/slugs
    isn't needed. This locked on seal will aid in smoothbore
    accuracy and it will work of course in rifled barrels.
    This sabot has a peg on the back that locks it in original
    setup to the green USS cushion base/seal, and we just pried
    it apart and drilled tight hole to match in the Powder Cup
    seal, and forced it on for a locked fit..
    Slug is .629" diameter.

       

    Next picture is 3 sizes of first USS sabot slugs, with
    the locked on bases which work good with them. Giving
    nearly rifle accurracy in smooth bores.

     

    Here is old time picture of couple of Rodda 4 bores.
    Man what nice old guns.

     

    Next picture is a 1.5" Minie ball slug, might work  for
    close to a one gauge. It is next to older 37mm case which
    might fire it also. Maybe a way to make a one gauge of
    sorts, if.......I get enough ambition...Ed


    coelacanth

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #40 on: February 23, 2012, 02:10:45 AM »
    Hand held or mounted on a gun carriage?
    Arizona"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot."
                          Robert A. Heinlein ,   Friday

    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #41 on: February 24, 2012, 11:48:58 PM »
    Hogan, etc held. We'll have the 2bore shoulder fired,
    probably won't have time/money to go no bigger.

    Some more 12ga sabot work. The sabots in first picture are
    like ones we want to get made for reloading.
    They have 440gr Dixie Gunworks muzzleloading minie slug.
    I related earlier that 3 shots with these in heavy rifled
    barrel NEF got them all in nearly the same hole, at 30 yds.
    Also 4 shots same distance, a 3 inch best group, smooth barrel.
    The slight hollow base helps with smooth barrel. The hollow
    base isn't as deep say  as a 12ga foster slug.Another one they
    have, a little heavier, with little deeper hollow base should
    make tighter group. Loads in 3.5" plastic going about 2200.



    Second picture shows something new I found out.It shows two
    different wad setups. When I took the REM Accutip loads apart
    I notice they used a thick seal, old style white felt cushion.
    All the tests I read about that factory load, says it is always
    near the top in accuracy. I had used the BPGS and flexseal
    cushion mostly, as it seals real good. But in the smoothbore
    test above the thick seal and felt wad gave the 3" group and
    the other wad setup 5". The smoothbore, which isn't a perfect
    system, for slugs not designed for smooth, worked out to show
    and magnify difference between the two wad setups..

    What first clued me in on this, to make a check, was recent
    weeks research on net,on all sabot patents, where I read that
    sometimes plastic cushions cock a little affecting accuracy.
    That is the plastic cushions with a lot of space in them.
    Where the felt/fiber cushions stay much more stable for a bigger
    percentage of shots.The very accurate Hornady SST sabot has no
    cushion at all between seal and sabot, but a thin rubber cushion
    disc inside their sabot, and the above may be one reason.
    The Federal Fusion sabots and the Federal Expander sabot
    both are accurate--they don't have a wide open plastic cushion.



    Third picture is of a Greener Martini slug gun a guy rigged up
    with a heavy rifled bull barrel in 12ga. Great looking gun.



    Finally thoughts about all of our posts on many forums(110)
    around the net. We are very happy with the response and help
    we get doing this. We feel this thread a positive boon and help
    to shooters interested in big bores, and by venturing into
    the big bore areas will promote more guys getting into shooting,
    reloading, smithing, etc. And a measure of interest are the views.
    All sites including a big picture site, have about 9 million views.
    And also we congratulate the 24hr Campfire Big Bore as being
    being the first with our regular 12ga FH thread to go
    over 200,000 views.Next is the Highroad with nearly 150,000,
    third is the Firingline with nearly 125,000, 4th Accurate
    Reloading  112,000, and 5th WeaponsForum 106,000.ED

    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #42 on: March 10, 2012, 01:07:59 AM »
    Some possibilities with the 12ga sabots we have been
    looking at. We may have possible leads on companies that
    can make sabots, that have most of equipment to do so.
    If they work out ok, the startup cost isn't as
    high as others who have to set up complete machines.
    We  are working to line up a dealer who will get good ones
    made, at one of these sabot making companies.WE hope to
    have similiar design as the ones pictured below
    but with slightly thicker base. I've sent these sabots
    with Dixie cast slugs to different companies to show
    what is needed, and what the full size specs should be.
    With Dixie cast in they are similiar to Federal
    Fusion sabots with lead slugs, only our slugs are 58cal.
    We will keep you informed on what happens. At least 5
    58cal slugs that Dixie has, looks maybe to work in these,
    as best I can tell. And there are a few molds for
    58cal cast slugs, by different companies.
    The possibilities are, to reload with decent price slugs
    and simple inexpensive sabot like these, for buck a round.
    40-60 cent slug, 15-20 cent sabot, powder/primer 30 cents.



    Those sabots I pictured above we been testing, had 385gr
    Remington plastic  nose bullets. I used some in my
    585HE and I get them to 3900 fps. Just to see how
    fast was possible in the 585. If I shot them in
    my biggest 585, the 585 HSM, they'd go about 4500 or so.
    They are real light compared to 750gr 585 cal bullets.
    Like a varmint round. Do up a coyote fine.All skinned.



    Some neat guns-First is a 20ga smooth bore Beretta style
    break action 20ga. This is one of the greatest style
    break actions there is. Beretta made their trap guns on
    actions like this and great value for no more
    than they cost. This one only 100 bucks.
    We lengthened chamber to 3.5" so it can
    use various 20ga smoothbore slug loads that we are
    working on and testing..The SPW, Hastings, Lightfield
    type 20ga slugs have decent 50yd accuracy in heavier
    smooth barrels.



    Next is couple of older guns I found pictures of,
    a 4bore Hughes and a 600NE Wilke. I like them.
    2nd is special 20ga double that poster Nitro 450 Express
    on the NitroExpress forum had built. Great job
    on nice looking slug gun.Ed







    coelacanth

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #43 on: March 10, 2012, 03:42:27 AM »
    Nice.   :thumbup1
    Arizona"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot."
                          Robert A. Heinlein ,   Friday

    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #44 on: March 25, 2012, 03:07:25 AM »
    The sabots we are working with, take at least 15 different
    58cal cast slugs for good fit, with the OD measurement of
    sabot at .733" with all of them in. There are 5 Dixie
    Gunworks MZ slugs, 6 slugs from Lyman moulds I know of.
    Five slugs from Lee moulds.These are mainly muzzleloading
    slugs and can be cast varying hardnesses.

    Examples-58cal (.575"- .578")
    Lee molds for 500gr, 460 gr, 350gr, etc, slugs
    Dixie Gunworks slugs of 440gr, 375gr, 490gr, etc, weights.
    Lyman 530gr, 510 gr, 460gr, 400gr, 315gr, etc.
    And they are all good slugs at a saving especially
    when folks cast their own.

    I'm getting out info on these to see if any reloading
    suppliers will try to get some made, so we will have a
    quality, proper OD size sabot, to reload with.



    From the research on sabot patents and testing by various
    of our readers, the sabots can't be undersize, or accuracy
    at high speeds isn't possible.  I get questions about how
    to reload them for accurate fast loads in plastic cases
    for regular hunting and target use. Have to tell them we need
    to have proper OD size sabot.. Most want sabot loads and not
    fullbore cast....Why; they want lighter for less recoil in
    regular weight guns, they figure smaller slugs cheaper,
    they won't have leading with sabots if using cast, don't
    have to lube and don't need gas checks if cast, cast slugs
    for sabot use cheaper than jacketed. These parameters cover
    a lot of shotgun only deer hunters trying to afford doing
    their own loads, trying to be as accurate as expensive
     factory sabot stuff and hoping the savings will allow much
    more shooting.In the 1st is 440gr 58cal Dixie, and second,
    one I like better a 510gr from Lyman mould. Third slug from
    a Lee 460gr 58cal mould. 4th is various 58cal slug ideas.
    Behind are Lyman and Lee 58cal molds. Got more coming of
    different 58cal weights, clear down to 315gr. My casting
    friend will get them and as soon a we get somebody making
    the sabot, he can aid the cause by making slugs.
    Some of the Lyman and Lee slugs are more streamlined than
    modst big bore rifle bullets as you can see in picture.



    Here is picture of a nice Armi San Marco 20ga break action
    we found, that we're testing loads in. I really like
    the style of this gun. I'm going to have extra barrel setup,
    an extra heavy 585cal barrel and put my long 585HE in it,
    to go along the other 585HE single shots 585HEs we have
    setup on NEFs, and CBCs.



    Here is a picture of nice Greener Martini 12ga, with new stock,
    and a heavy rifled bull barrel, a fellow redid.
    Such great work. And very accurate. All these guns need like
    all singleshots, including break actions, are heavy barrels
    and they shoot great and are easy to shoot with the
    extra weight.






    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #45 on: April 05, 2012, 11:56:35 PM »
    Here are a couple high speed, stop frame photos, showing how well
    and even these sabots we want to get made, open up.
    The petals being thinner with 58 cal bullets or slugs, opens easy.
    The slots between petals, going into the base aids even opening.
    We know a couple retailers that are interested in selling these
    style of sabots, if they round up the money to get the
    aquipment setup. Shooting supply companies are down some
    due the economy.





    Third is the 585 HE project, using a Savage 110-112 bolt action.
    Shown with barrel threaded and screwing action on.
    And the action is long enough to make a single stack mag, if we
    want, that would feed, with a little work, our 585 HE long case.



    4th & 5th; pictures are of a old time 20 gauge, double slug and shot
    gun that was priced little less than the big name English ones.
    It is a Husqvarna double. Nice gun, we'd really have fun with modern
    20ga slug shooting using this ..Ed






    Gunnguy

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #46 on: April 06, 2012, 10:19:27 PM »
    These are too sick to even fathom the depths of Musket's delight in firing one and sending a whole army of undead to hell first class.

     ;)
    Indiana'The average response time of a 911 call is over 23 minutes, the average response time of a .44 magnum is 1400 feet per second.'

    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #47 on: April 18, 2012, 05:02:30 AM »
    Some info we have found out about the operation of discarding sabots.
    In first picture you see thin white line between the strong powder
    and the sabot. It is the white fiber cushion wad  pressed flat. It is
    shown on the left in second picture. In the picture of it compressed
    you see it is pushing squarely on the sabot. This is most important
    wheh the sabot and slug exit barrel to get the slug started as
    straight as possible for accuracy.

    Other types of plastic cushions aid in sealing and help get best
    velocities but the rolls and legs in them can allow them to side shift
    which can affect how straight the sabot is on exit, thus causing the
    slug to deviate. The gray sabots we tried had cushion on the bottom
    of them and inspecting them after firing you could see they were pushed
    sideway some of the time.  That is why we are trying to get tight
    fitting simple sabots built and recommend using heavy plastic seals
    with fiber wads to have least deviation and best accuracy.







    Third picture is our steel block we are using for 2bore
    with breach hole we got EDM'd into it.



    Fourth picture is an old time Kynoch round called  the
    "Lethal"  and the  "destructor".




    Fith picture is a H&H underlever double 8bore.
    Nice beautifal old gun.Ed




    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #48 on: May 05, 2012, 11:40:30 PM »
    I think we found good overall sabot design that will
    be the easiest to get made, easiest to get seals
    and whatever wads needed... Keeping design simple.
    It is same simple design as the ones pictured above
    but with slightly thicker base.It is fairly compact
    for more room for our slow powder loads, and when
    using slower powders, we don't need as much cushioning
    which makes the room for the powder. Larger charges
    of slower powder, better velocity with less case
    expansion, and more reloads possible.

    We hadn't tested soft lead 58cal slugs in 12ga sabots
    for penetration until now.. They did very well,
    two different 440 gr ones, going though 4 inch dried
    timber, pushing out some wood on the back.
    Shows they are just starting to expand.Should do great
    for deer and hogs. Going 2200 in long barrel NEF.
    Have pictures later. A 58cal slug at good speed is
    nothing to look down on. Many African hunters liked
    that caliber in their 577 doubles for big game.
    Slugs can be  loaded faster, cast heavier,
    and cast harder for any need.And compared to other
    way of getting slugs out of a shotgun, once
    we have good fullbore sabots, we save on needing
    bullet lube, gas checks, cheaper to get, no barrel
    leading, much better BC in the same weight of slugs
    compared to short fullbore ones....


    Here are pictures of  molds that can make cast
    58cal slugs for the 12ga sabot we are working
    on.There are many makers and brands and styles
    of molds and weights available.

     

     


    Here is picture of a 10ga wadcup with a 730gr hollowbase
    lead slug in on the left .In my heavy barrel 10ga smoothbore
    I got 6" group at 50 yds. If we made hollow in the base
    bigger it would be more accurate in smooth barrel.
    The slug is .69cal one,measures .686"(from  Lymam mold
    like in picture), that Dixie Gunworks has.  I bumped up the
    diameter about .015" --wadcup is BPI VP100.

     


    Here is picture of a nice 8ga double a fellow has.
    Great looking gun..Ed


    hubel585

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    Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga From Hell Shotgun/Rifles--585 & 700 HE Blasters--
    « Reply #49 on: May 21, 2012, 02:02:40 AM »
    Working more with 58cal lead slugs in 12ga sabot we want
    to get built. We shot a few for checking penetration,
    with 440gr slugs at 2200 plus fps. Shooting into popple.
    In picture the 6x6 on the left penetrated by harder lead
    alloy slug, with slug showing very little expansion on
    exit from the 6x6, On the right, soft pure lead slug through
    a 4x6 starting to show expansion on exit. These slugs can be
    gotten or cast your own to about any hardess needed.
    They can even be heat treated to be as hard as jacketed.
    I have rounded up 9 different ones very easy, shown in
    2nd picture and there are more. Ones in picture range
    from 400gr to 530 gr. There are molds to make them
    down to 350 gr and less.





    Here is picture, on left of Accutip sabot we been taking out
    of loaded rounds and testing 58cal lead slugs with,
    and right a hard plastic sabot model, we are working on
    to see how slugs fit and how it looks, and how
    it compares to the Accutip and other sabots we have
    here from WIN, REM, FED, Hornady.



    In picture is a really neat, very strong, 10ga Beretta style
    gun we got. Its barrel is heavier at the muzzle than most
    all 10 gauges we've seen except the NEF with  bull barrel.
    Made by Pedretti, has top lever to open, instead bottom
    lever like Beretta or the Investarm 20ga we showed above.
    Going to make into switch barrel for 10ga and monoblock one
    in 585HE later. Have 2 barrels for it. Has nice big pad we put
    on it and it is weighted to 12 lbs in 10ga..



    Now for some internal ballistics comparisons.There is formula
    for figuring appoximate Average Barrel Pressure,

    You take Muzzle Energy times 12......and divide it by

    the BORE Area in sq in, times the length of the barrel in inches.

    Examples- you have a 458 WIN, my 585HE and 12ga 3.5"--
    all at 5000 Ft Lbs of energy which for 458 be standard load.
    The 585HE in this mode would be burning close to charcoal.
    The 12ga 3.5 would be 440gr slug in sabot at 2200 plus.

    The 458 Ave Barrel Pressure is about 16,000 psi.
    The 585HE  Ave Barrel Pressure is about 8,000 psi.
    The 3.5  12ga Ave Barrel Pressure about 5,200 psi.

    The purpose of this-- To show the possibilites of big bores.
    Ok you can't go much higher with 458WIN, about 80gr of powder

    But 585HE you can get way over 10,000 ft lbs,with 180gr powder
    it holds running at 458WIN Ave Barrel pressure.

    AND 12ga and 3.5" brass case in Savage 210, slow powder loads,
    heavy barrel, you can get over 10,000 ft lb. with 180gr powder
    at much less than 458Win Ave Barrel Pressure.
    Possibilities are really great fun. Ed

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