I was just curious about something.

  I know the "Stigma" I'll say of Chinese made rifles.   I cringe at the thought of an American design like the M14 being made overseas.    Much the same way I get downright peeved at seeing "Made in Vietnam" on 5.11 gear. 

     That said, I've been looking at them and figured I'd come to the experts here on a few questions.

    #1.  Many of the super-positive reviews of Polytech M14's are new versions.  That is post-ban imports that are going to Canada, VS the pre-ban's that are available in the US.

    #2.  Many of the problems (Mechanical problems, VS cosmetic) seem to be about the Bolt being of soft metal, allowing excessive headspace.

    Those points being made.  I am wondering if Polytech's aren't all that bad.   What is the benefits of a Forged VS cast receiver?    Even considering the cost of a gunsmith to install a new bolt, and possibly tweak a Chinese one, would it be any better than a Springfield Armory?

    I'm just curious on this. 

I'm not an expert about M14s in general or Polytechs in particular, but I do own a Poly and I've done a bit of research about them. So, while taking what I have to say with the appropriate grain of salt, here is what I have read and experienced from the US-legal Polys (which are the earlier ones, since importation was banned awhile back):

The Polytech M14S is a great example of the utter stupidity of communism. They went to the bother (and, I would imagine, significant expense) of manufacturing an outstanding receiver, properly dimensioned in every respect, forged of tool steel with proper heat treatment. Basically, it is every bit as good as a real-deal M14 receiver, and arguably better than the cast commercial offerings most of us own today. They then mated it to a decent chrome-lined barrel. They then slapped on some parts of highly variable quality, installed a poorly-dimensioned bolt of too-soft steel, finished everything like it was a homework project from Parkerizing 101, and slapped it all into some mystery-wood stock. Naturally, the Polytech rifle got a reputation for shoody workmanship, especially when things started exploding near shooters' faces. Bad news, eh?

Not so fast. That receiver is excellent. The barrel is good. The rest of the parts can be swapped out as needed. The bolt should be replaced, or at least watched like a HAWK with headspace gauges. The stock should probably be swapped out. But once you've done that, you have one heck of a rifle. The receiver should outlive your grandkids.


If you have a line on a M14S for under a grand, I would give it a good, hard look. You have to factor in the cost of buying and installing a USGI bolt (under $400 total, I would imagine) and expect to do a little fiddling to get stuff up to snuff. Or, see if that work has already been done. But once you do that, you'll have an outstanding rifle, for way less money than you would pay to get the equivalent from anyplace else. And, since importation is banned, you're not supporting communist slave labor by buying it.

Mike

  Course that sorta goes in with the common vein.  Almost 3/4 of every post I've seen says "Change the bolt".

   So Coronach: Parts are interchangable between the USGI and M14S? I know the bolt takes a little work (From what I've read) to get it into a Chinese rifle, but most other stuff is okay?

   One more question:  Is the Norinco and Polytech the same gun? 

I  am just sorta meandering around and skimming .308's and comparing everything.   I'd like a Broadsword, but the M1/M14 action is really appealing to me. 

It was a Norinco. This tale of woe took place 11 years ago and I have no way to tell what batch or series it was. The guy fitted the bolt himself, but he's a fairly competent armorer I understand. (Of ARs at least). I'm definitely not an M14 smith myself. He said the receiver was too soft too, or not tempered right, or somesuch wrongness. I know the rifle ended up torn down for parts and bits and that the receiver was an unworkable KIA. He wouldn't sell the rifle off because he didn't want to stick anyone else with a doomed item.

  Well I was looking at Fulton Armory's page:
 http://www.fulton-armory.com/M14-Services.htm

 Basically $200 to give it a once-over and install a GI bolt.

  A couple of questions:
  How bad are the stocks?  I mean are they that poorly fitted?  A few people said "They're ugly", but to me they don't look bad.  But if the fit was off, yeah, it'd be better to stick on a new stock.

 Second: Fulton Armory seems to be all "GAH, ARGGH *rip out hair*" about replacing the barrel too.
  From what I've heard, the Barrels are decent...shouldn't need replacing.

   I dunno.  Still thinking but the Polytech seems to be about as good as the Springfield for a cheaper price, and maybe a bit better if fully upgraded to equal $$ amount. 

  I figured they were trying to sell barrels.   I'd look around at somewhere else, but I don't see many people with as much of a firm background in the dealing.

   I dunno.  I'm still undecided.  I'd like a Broadsword, but I'm torn because the M14 is sorta "The gun" (in my opinion) of semi-auto's.  It's the 1911 of semi-auto combat rifles.     My final part is tearing at me because of the FAL....it just has had so much history on it.     It was sorta the defender of freedom during the communist years....Even though it really didn't earn that title. 

Let's not turn this into an FAL/M14 flame-off, okay?

Unless you really like to shoot. Who could afford to train with all of them in these days of $.50/round  for surplus?

Fulton is trying to sell you crap you don't need. I have no doubt that Fulton does good work, but I like picking what work I'm going to have done. Try Warbirds instead. Just be advised that Tim is a little slow to respond to this here newfangled intarweb thingamajiggy, and emails will sometimes go unanswered for a week or so. Be prepared as well to keep a running list of everything you want done to the gun, because he can forget stuff you talked about before. I just ended all of my emails will a "summary, here is what is being done to the gun" list. This must sound like I had a terrible experience, but I did not. He's just slow, but he does good work for a reasonable price. My M14S shoots just fine with its chinese trigger group, chinese barrel, TRW bolt and Polytech receiver.

http://www.warbirdscustomguns.com/

Mike

Warbirds will be $200 (bolt), $200 (work, $125 for the fitting, $75 for refinishing), + whatever for the gun.

I got my Polytech for $500. They're out there, but you have to be vigilant and ready to purchase when they pop up.

Mike

One thing you will have to watch is whether a USGI conversion has been done already. In the plus column, that's less you have to do. In the minus column, it may have been done improperly. If it is an unconverted gun, you'll have to decide for yourself if you want to do the conversion. Some of the bolts were just fine, apparently. I pondered it, and decided...

1. I'm really attached to my face

and

2. I'm ugly enough already.

I had the conversion done.

Mike

A GI bolt will have a makers mark and part number. A lot of them have a heat-treat dimple on the top, too. Be careful, though. SAI let out a bunch of counterfeit bolts, complete with fake markings.

They went to the bother (and, I would imagine, significant expense) of manufacturing an outstanding receiver, properly dimensioned in every respect, forged of tool steel with proper heat treatment. Basically, it is every bit as good as a real-deal M14 receiver, and arguably better than the cast commercial offerings most of us own today. They then mated it to a decent chrome-lined barrel. They then slapped on some parts of highly variable quality, installed a poorly-dimensioned bolt of too-soft steel, finished everything like it was a homework project from Parkerizing 101, and slapped it all into some mystery-wood stock. Naturally, the Polytech rifle got a reputation for shoody workmanship, especially when things started exploding near shooters' faces. Bad news, eh?

They made a properly dimensioned, treated and spec-ed receiver?  That's not exactly easy with the M14, even US firms had difficulty with it initially.

And then they put a lousy bolt in it?

That's the sort of decision only a committee of Party officers could make.