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Author Topic: Picking a Vepr.  (Read 1564 times)

MTK20

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Picking a Vepr.
« on: February 05, 2017, 03:48:14 PM »
The round I'm really curious about here is the Grendel. What is it made for and what is it good at?

To my knowledge, both .308 and 7.62x54r can still be effective to 1000 yards. I would intend to get a 20 inch barrel or longer. Preferably the 23 incher.
Texas
Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

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    Grant

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    Re: Picking a Vepr.
    « Reply #1 on: February 05, 2017, 04:09:08 PM »
      At this point with cheap surplus 54R out of the picture I'd not get into it, unless you have a dozen crates stashed away.

      6.5 Grendel in my opinion......interesting.....I think it'll go the way of the dodo after not too long and become a boutique round.

     
       
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

    MTK20

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    Re: Picking a Vepr.
    « Reply #2 on: February 05, 2017, 04:21:43 PM »
    Perhaps I should've added the 3006 to the mix? They make a Vepr in that too.

    I didn't realise Vepr's were so inexpensive compared to the M1A and FAL. A semi auto rifle of decent build and price that a college kid can afford is pretty cool.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    ksuguy

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    Re: Picking a Vepr.
    « Reply #3 on: February 05, 2017, 04:51:58 PM »
    I'd go with the .308.   I think there are mods you can get done to use more common magazines.   

    I've got a .223 VEPR-K.    I think I paid $600 for it back in 2004.
    Kansas

    MTK20

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    Re: Picking a Vepr.
    « Reply #4 on: February 05, 2017, 05:21:15 PM »
    I'd go with the .308.   I think there are mods you can get done to use more common magazines.   

    I've got a .223 VEPR-K.    I think I paid $600 for it back in 2004.

    That sounds really cool, but a quick search yielded no results for a .308 vepr extended magazine mod. I'm sure it's out there, just I couldn't find it  :shrug.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    ksuguy

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    Re: Picking a Vepr.
    « Reply #5 on: February 05, 2017, 08:34:46 PM »
    I was thinking it was M14 magazines,  there is also another version for Galil magazines.    However, it does require some semi-complicated gunsmithing, so I wouldn't tackle it myself.  I'd try and find a professional to handle it. 

    Another option is to find some .308 VEPR magazines.  They are a little hard to find and a little pricey, but they exist. 
    http://stores.csspecs.com/vepr-308-magazine-20-round/
    Kansas

    MTK20

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    Re: Picking a Vepr.
    « Reply #6 on: February 05, 2017, 08:52:23 PM »
    I was thinking it was M14 magazines,  there is also another version for Galil magazines.    However, it does require some semi-complicated gunsmithing, so I wouldn't tackle it myself.  I'd try and find a professional to handle it. 

    Another option is to find some .308 VEPR magazines.  They are a little hard to find and a little pricey, but they exist. 
    http://stores.csspecs.com/vepr-308-magazine-20-round/

    Very cool, thank you for the link  :thumbup1.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    coelacanth

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    Re: Picking a Vepr.
    « Reply #7 on: February 05, 2017, 11:12:57 PM »
    Well, the VEPR is a pretty nice rifle and from what I hear capable of decent accuracy but I'm not sure what they can do out to 800 yards.   :shrug  If you find the need to be engaging hogs at that distance, my pick would be the 30/06 simply because it is the best of the cartridges you listed at that distance followed by the .308, the 7.62x54R, and the 6.5 Grendel in that order. Hogs aren't the easiest animals to kill, even if they haven't attained great size and at extended range the ability of the bullet to do lethal damage even on a marginal shot is important to a clean kill.  Also, if the purpose is to engage feral hogs what would be the purpose of an extended magazine?   :hmm  I would think three to five rounds would be plenty, especially if you're packing a spare. 
    Arizona"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot."
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    Kaso

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    Re: Picking a Vepr.
    « Reply #8 on: February 06, 2017, 12:58:05 AM »
    Also, if the purpose is to engage feral hogs what would be the purpose of an extended magazine?   :hmm  I would think three to five rounds would be plenty, especially if you're packing a spare. 
    I think the idea is that it would double as his DMR setup.  If I was buying a semi-auto hog rifle, I would want that dual purpose.

    I agree that 800 yards is stretching it for making a clean kill on tough game, but a 'DMR' rifle only needs to be able to take the opponent out of the fight.

    I would say either .308 or .30-06.  If the main use is for hogs, and you do truly intend to engage them out to 800, get the '06.  If, however, you are more after a DMR/MBR that will double nicely for hogs, get the .308 for ammo cost (new and surplus mil spec) and availability.  If it was my rifle, it would be .308.
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    MTK20

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    Re: Picking a Vepr.
    « Reply #9 on: February 06, 2017, 08:14:11 AM »
    I think the idea is that it would double as his DMR setup.  If I was buying a semi-auto hog rifle, I would want that dual purpose.

    I agree that 800 yards is stretching it for making a clean kill on tough game, but a 'DMR' rifle only needs to be able to take the opponent out of the fight.

    I would say either .308 or .30-06.  If the main use is for hogs, and you do truly intend to engage them out to 800, get the '06.  If, however, you are more after a DMR/MBR that will double nicely for hogs, get the .308 for ammo cost (new and surplus mil spec) and availability.  If it was my rifle, it would be .308.

    You understand my line of thought, this would also be a DMR set up  :cool. While .308 can reach to 800, I agree that hogs are difficult game regardless of the distance the shot was taken.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Kaso

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    Re: Picking a Vepr.
    « Reply #10 on: February 06, 2017, 08:55:44 AM »
    You understand my line of thought, this would also be a DMR set up  :cool. While .308 can reach to 800, I agree that hogs are difficult game regardless of the distance the shot was taken.
    With that rifle, I think 800 is going to be a borderline unethical shot, regardless of the game.  You really ought to step up to a magnum round in a long range bolt gun.  But as said, that is not your only use for the rifle. At practical distances, either round will be fine, and .308 will be much better suited for a DMR rifle.

    What you are running into here, thinking that you have to engage the hogs at extreme distances, is not a hardware issue...  It is a deficiency of tactics.  Rather than try to enable yourself to take shots at the extreme limit of a cartridge's range, you should put more effort into 'bringing the hogs to you.'  Get them in close, where even your AK could hit them, and then use your Vepr to put them into the freezer. :thumbup1
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    booksmart

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    Re: Picking a Vepr.
    « Reply #11 on: February 06, 2017, 09:13:57 AM »
    Another vote for the .308, for the reasons everybody else has stated...

    BPSIG

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    Re: Picking a Vepr.
    « Reply #12 on: February 06, 2017, 10:32:58 AM »
    I vote 308 .
    I miss mine but it was it or no baby stuff.
    I went to Carolina state armory . Picked up rail forearm for bipod and a side folding fal stock .
    Mags ar 20 and 25 Rd.
    Either a heavy metal or thicker than pmag 308 synthetic mags.
    It was awesome 16 barrel  was a little short but rocked whatever aimed at.
    3006 would be good if can get mags.
    Someday will have another but longer barrel
    Tennessee

    Grant

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    Re: Picking a Vepr.
    « Reply #13 on: February 06, 2017, 11:11:53 AM »
    With that rifle, I think 800 is going to be a borderline unethical shot, regardless of the game.  You really ought to step up to a magnum round in a long range bolt gun.  But as said, that is not your only use for the rifle. At practical distances, either round will be fine, and .308 will be much better suited for a DMR rifle.

    FWIW, real hunters believe 800 yards is unethical REGARDLESS of game or rifle round used.  The exceptions being rodents or coyotes where nearly any hit by a large rifle is deadly.

     I see videos of people shooting elk at 800 or 900 yards and it makes me sick.    Yes, they get lucky, however the odds have gone up DRASTICALLY on losing elk.  Differences in wind, gun accuracy, even bullet flight time an animal can move almost imperceptibly.      I guarantee that elk are lost that they don't record.   OR.....what they see as a "Miss" is a non-vital hit.   An elk can take a hit to the vitals and keep moving as if it wasn't touched.   non-vitals and it would be easy to not think you even hit the animal.


    Not ragging on anyone in particular, just putting that out there.  If you say that stuff in public much, you'll garner a certain reputation as "that guy" amongst hunters.


    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

    Kaso

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    Re: Picking a Vepr.
    « Reply #14 on: February 06, 2017, 11:22:09 AM »
    FWIW, real hunters believe 800 yards is unethical REGARDLESS of game or rifle round used.  The exceptions being rodents or coyotes where nearly any hit by a large rifle is deadly.


    Not ragging on anyone in particular, just putting that out there.  If you say that stuff in public much, you'll garner a certain reputation as "that guy" amongst hunters.
    Okay, I have never hunted, and in my area 800 yards is behind the next hill.  So this is never something I have had to think about. 

    Also, depending upon the area of the country, hogs are viewed much like rodents are - they are pests - and I don't think many people would lose sleep over a gut shot hog that dies a mile away.
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    booksmart

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    Re: Picking a Vepr.
    « Reply #15 on: February 06, 2017, 12:52:05 PM »
    I would. That's lost *bacon*. Can't have that.

    Grant

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    Re: Picking a Vepr.
    « Reply #16 on: February 06, 2017, 02:23:30 PM »
    Okay, I have never hunted, and in my area 800 yards is behind the next hill.  So this is never something I have had to think about. 

    Also, depending upon the area of the country, hogs are viewed much like rodents are - they are pests - and I don't think many people would lose sleep over a gut shot hog that dies a mile away.

    It depends.  I have no qualms about tanneriting pigs or mass-gunning them down with 75 round drums.  That said most (definitely not all) hunters, myself included, will spend hours tracking a wounded animal to put it down rather than let it suffer, if at all feasible.   Sometimes stuff happens and you lose wounded game like pheasants, sharptails ,etc.   

    I would like to plan a trip to texas with my AK to just lay waste to hogs.      Also would have no qualms about leaving them lay too, considering they're pests.

     
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

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    Re: Picking a Vepr.
    « Reply #17 on: February 06, 2017, 03:29:02 PM »
    I think tracking wounded 'game' is a good idea.  Groundhogs, raccoons, coyotes and hogs don't make that cut for me.  Dead is dead, whether it is from the bullet right now, or an infection in a week.  The loss of the meat would be annoying, yes.
    Donald J Trump, by the Grace of God: 45th president of the United States.
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    MTK20

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    Re: Picking a Vepr.
    « Reply #18 on: February 06, 2017, 05:30:54 PM »
    Guys  :-\.

    Hogs are pests. I said I wanted 800 yard capability. On the ranch it will most likely be under 300 yards. Once again, not white tail, not elk, hogs.... An invasive and destructive problem in Texas.

    Any shot I take Will be an ethical one.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Grant

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    Re: Picking a Vepr.
    « Reply #19 on: February 06, 2017, 05:49:48 PM »
         Oh we're not arguing they're a destructive pest  :cool    If you could provide a place I'd try to in the next couple years come down with a vet and bag full of AK magazines with the intent of dropping as many as possible.   And I wouldn't be worrying about meat.

          My gripe is not with you  ;)

    Part of the reason I'm so for tracking wounded animals is because: Hunters are a lot about public perception.    What we do reflects on us as a whole.  I know a LOT of people could care less about hunting, but support our side and vote against anti-hunting and anti-trapping proposals.       Seeing an animal dragging a shot-off leg or jaw, does little to help our side.     

      And I do not know wild hogs, but tame ones: I'd hate to leave a wounded one around where people may accidentally stumble on one.    "domestic" hogs can get mighty riled over a tiny bit of pain, and are big, mean ornery critters to try and stop.   

       
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

    coelacanth

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    Re: Picking a Vepr.
    « Reply #20 on: February 06, 2017, 09:32:09 PM »
    He has a point.   :hmm    Whether you call it hunting or pest control, the idea that the suffering of an animal is of no consequence does not resonate with me.  Therefore, when I pull the trigger on a shot it is with the intent that the animal targeted will either be DRT or within moments of the impact. 
    Arizona"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot."
                          Robert A. Heinlein ,   Friday

    Grant

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    Re: Picking a Vepr.
    « Reply #21 on: February 07, 2017, 02:03:20 AM »
    He has a point.   :hmm    Whether you call it hunting or pest control, the idea that the suffering of an animal is of no consequence does not resonate with me.  Therefore, when I pull the trigger on a shot it is with the intent that the animal targeted will either be DRT or within moments of the impact. 

    Yeah....I will admit that I......may be a shade too evil when it comes to gophers and Pdogs.....I love seeing them go poof.    And I may pass up "finishing off" some if I can shoot 2 or 3 more in the same 4-5 seconds it would take.     I have special dislike for them. 
    Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

    MTK20

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    Re: Picking a Vepr.
    « Reply #22 on: February 07, 2017, 05:37:21 AM »
    He has a point.   :hmm    Whether you call it hunting or pest control, the idea that the suffering of an animal is of no consequence does not resonate with me.  Therefore, when I pull the trigger on a shot it is with the intent that the animal targeted will either be DRT or within moments of the impact.

    I agree with this statement. The goal should always be DRT, although it is to my understanding that this can sometimes be difficult even with well placed shots on hogs. This is coming from someone who has never shot a hog, however.

    Once again, I don't think anyone here is advocating for anything outside of ethically taken, pain and suffering free, game.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Plebian

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    Re: Picking a Vepr.
    « Reply #23 on: February 07, 2017, 06:26:56 AM »
    Once again, I don't think anyone here is advocating for anything outside of ethically taken, pain and suffering free, game.

    Except for prairie dogs, those little bastages deserve to suffer. If you have ever had to put a horse or cow down because of a broke leg from prairie dog holes. Then you will feel the same.

    Plus they are as close to zombies as exist outside of fiction. I will happily red mist prairie dogs all day.   
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    Plebian

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    Re: Picking a Vepr.
    « Reply #24 on: February 07, 2017, 06:32:49 AM »
    I have found my bow works better for me on hogs than rifles. They tend to not even realize they are hit by anything, or if they do they do not run very far before settling back down.

    I have yet to take a hog with a spear, but I will get there. 
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

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