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Author Topic: Nitride VS Chrome-lined: WTA's thoughts  (Read 2187 times)

Grant

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Nitride VS Chrome-lined: WTA's thoughts
« on: August 22, 2016, 11:32:54 PM »
    Well it's been hashed out everywhere else...and touched on occasionally here, just was wondering WTA's thoughts on the subject?   Mainly of course, AR's since that is the most highly used area in this.

 
     When Nitriding/Meloniting first became common I was deadest against it.  Cheapy manufacturers cutting corners rather than paying to have barrels chrome-lined.

   
  I still believe that to a point:  Most of the cheap manufacturers use Nitriding, whereas the bigger names still use chrome-lining.     

   However....dang...I know they're not the quality, they'll cheap out somewhere, but the accuracy......of Nitrided AR barrels is intriguing me.   In average they seem to be beating out the average chrome-lined barrels from the mid-level manufacturers. PSA, Spikes Tactical, Windham,etc.   

    Bolts/BCG's.etc. that come WITH the nitride uppers appear to be the budget ones, MP tested but not HP tested.   If you buy your own anyway that's of little concern.

    My rare AR's I plan on keeping have chrome-lined barrels. They're the keepers partially for that reason.

  That said....if I were to purchase another....for $100 savings I'd dang near go that route......
Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

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    MTK20

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    Re: Nitride VS Chrome-lined: WTA's thoughts
    « Reply #1 on: August 23, 2016, 01:10:21 AM »
    I'm just talking out of my butt and from what I remember (with the audacity to not Google fact check it first. Ha! :hide), but didn't Rock River Arms have non-chrome lined barrels?
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
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    Re: Nitride VS Chrome-lined: WTA's thoughts
    « Reply #2 on: August 23, 2016, 01:29:50 AM »
    Chrome is over-rated. 
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    sqlbullet

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    Re: Nitride VS Chrome-lined: WTA's thoughts
    « Reply #3 on: August 23, 2016, 09:53:42 AM »
    All else equal, which it never is, it would come down to the question of slightly better accuracy (nitride) or slightly longer erosion life (chrome).  In general I pick accuracy, since I don't do 10-15K rounds a year through one gun.
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    MTK20

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    Re: Nitride VS Chrome-lined: WTA's thoughts
    « Reply #4 on: August 23, 2016, 10:50:48 AM »
    All else equal, which it never is, it would come down to the question of slightly better accuracy (nitride) or slightly longer erosion life (chrome).  In general I pick accuracy, since I don't do 10-15K rounds a year through one gun.

    This has also been my understanding.

    Non chrome lined barrels seem to hold up pretty well, as well. They are by no means falling apart at the seams. At least, from what I hear.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Kaso

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    Re: Nitride VS Chrome-lined: WTA's thoughts
    « Reply #5 on: August 23, 2016, 11:05:26 AM »
    Non chrome lined barrels seem to hold up pretty well, as well. They are by no means falling apart at the seams. At least, from what I hear.
    Chrome lining was a nice feature back when issued ammo was corrosive.  While there are still some stocks of corrosive Soviet and Eastern ammo, all of the new production - and certainly all 5.56 Nato - is non-corrosive. 

    Especially in 5.56 AR barrels, chrome lining's negative effect on accuracy far outweighs its minimal effect on bore longevity.
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    Re: Nitride VS Chrome-lined: WTA's thoughts
    « Reply #6 on: August 23, 2016, 12:00:05 PM »
    Especially in 5.56 AR barrels, chrome lining's negative effect on accuracy far outweighs its minimal effect on bore longevity.

    And price.

    I would also add, all my AR barrels are either stainless or melonite/nitride.  I don't think I have a single chrome lined bore in the mix.
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    JesseL

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    Re: Nitride VS Chrome-lined: WTA's thoughts
    « Reply #7 on: August 23, 2016, 12:31:57 PM »
    I really couldn't care less about it in an AR.

    The cost vs benefit of chrome isn't there. You're money ahead replacing the barrel at 6000 rounds instead of 8000 (or whatever).
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    Re: Nitride VS Chrome-lined: WTA's thoughts
    « Reply #8 on: August 23, 2016, 02:42:20 PM »
    Put me down for nitriding over chrome lined.
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    Grant

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    Re: Nitride VS Chrome-lined: WTA's thoughts
    « Reply #9 on: August 23, 2016, 07:19:30 PM »
      ONE area where it may be an advantage to have chrome over nitride:   full-auto mag dumps.

       Was just wondering because for the most part I'm thinking of going mostly nitride, I'd just like to see "premium" quality nitrides.  Though I guess drop my own BCG into a nitride upper it's pretty foolproof.   

    And heck....got the stuff, I'll try building an upper on my own shortly.
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    Re: Nitride VS Chrome-lined: WTA's thoughts
    « Reply #10 on: August 23, 2016, 07:45:19 PM »
    Also in salt water coastal climates, chrome might get stronger consideration. Even then... Maybe.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

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    Re: Nitride VS Chrome-lined: WTA's thoughts
    « Reply #11 on: August 24, 2016, 10:40:35 AM »
    Jesse nailed it.  A nitride safe queen will last just as well as a chrome lined, even in coastal climates.  And while it may degrade faster than chrome, it is enough cheaper to put your barrel cost per round below the cost of chrome.
    Utah

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    Re: Nitride VS Chrome-lined: WTA's thoughts
    « Reply #12 on: August 24, 2016, 11:20:20 AM »
    In a coastal climate, I would want the go all of the way with stainless.  It's not just the bore that is going to be exposed to the air.
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    ZeroTA

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    Re: Nitride VS Chrome-lined: WTA's thoughts
    « Reply #13 on: August 24, 2016, 04:09:21 PM »
    Chrome lined barrels, are in general, slightly less accurate due to the way they're made. Google it for more info. They were designed to maintain reliability under sustained fire, as chrome is harder than steel. All the various nitride finishes are not necessarily the manufacturer cutting costs (it may be cheaper and may not), the finish simply adds durability without changing the dimensions of the barrel (more accuracy), I'd rather have more accuracy. And if you can afford to shoot enough ammo to wear out any barrel, you can afford another barrel.
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    Re: Nitride VS Chrome-lined: WTA's thoughts
    « Reply #14 on: August 24, 2016, 08:31:48 PM »
    I've had a chromed bore and a nitride bore on my AR, (My "melonite" upper was made by Radical firearms in texas, and is a very nice upper compared to my first, chrome bore upper).

    everything I've read about melonite seems to imply that under low-load shooting, it is functionally the same or better than chrome. but is only about 75-85% as durable under high-load shooting.

    personally- considering that most of the charts I've seen list 15-25,000 round lives for either barrel, I'm not worried. I shoot maybe 300 rounds a quarter out of this gun.
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    Re: Nitride VS Chrome-lined: WTA's thoughts
    « Reply #15 on: February 10, 2017, 02:49:41 AM »
    I prefer QPQ'ed BCG's and chrome lined barrels.
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    Re: Nitride VS Chrome-lined: WTA's thoughts
    « Reply #16 on: February 10, 2017, 08:02:20 AM »
    Any reason why? I would imagine that the other way around would be better for accuracy.
    (QPQ is the same thing as melonite, just FYI)
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    Re: Nitride VS Chrome-lined: WTA's thoughts
    « Reply #17 on: February 10, 2017, 08:03:47 AM »
    No chrome lined barrels for me...

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    Re: Nitride VS Chrome-lined: WTA's thoughts
    « Reply #18 on: February 10, 2017, 08:19:09 PM »
    No chrome lined barrels for me...

    You prefer chrome lined or not?

    I feel this sentence is one comma away from meaning two opposite things.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

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    Re: Nitride VS Chrome-lined: WTA's thoughts
    « Reply #19 on: February 11, 2017, 12:19:51 AM »
    Any reason why? I would imagine that the other way around would be better for accuracy.
    (QPQ is the same thing as melonite, just FYI)
    the qpq carrier and cam pin operate smoother in my experience, comparing colt to to Azimuth bcg. Chrome lined bores have been proven more durable in military testing. The bcg is not subjected to the level of pressure and abrasion the bore is, so qpq will suffice. Accuracy is not something I care about unless the weapon and ammo and shooter are worse than 2.5moa for 10 shot groups at 100 yards. When this is exceeded, that is my personal threshold of unsat. Until then...we are talking about carbines. Not sniper rifles or dmr use. I am also a huge fan of hammer forged bores. Everything  I own is hammer forged except maybe my .22 and I'm unsure about my M&P handguns. Shotgun and rifle, chf chrome lined.
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    Re: Nitride VS Chrome-lined: WTA's thoughts
    « Reply #20 on: February 11, 2017, 12:30:29 AM »
    You prefer chrome lined or not?

    I feel this sentence is one comma away from meaning two opposite things.
    I take that to mean he wants nothing to do with chrome lining.
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    Re: Nitride VS Chrome-lined: WTA's thoughts
    « Reply #21 on: February 11, 2017, 07:47:07 AM »
    I take that to mean he wants nothing to do with chrome lining.

    Correct.

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    Re: Nitride VS Chrome-lined: WTA's thoughts
    « Reply #22 on: February 11, 2017, 08:54:29 AM »
    functionally, a melonite bore is exactly the same as a chrome bore for most of our civilian applications. hell, I don't think many of us would be able to notice the difference between chromed, melonite, and straight uncoated steel.
    North Carolina"it has two fire modes, safe, and most decidedly unsafe"
    ~Chief Warrant Leon McMurdo. Shilo Mountain Rangers, sixth battalion. Mount Hector School of Military tactics. November 8th 3451.

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    Re: Nitride VS Chrome-lined: WTA's thoughts
    « Reply #23 on: February 11, 2017, 09:44:35 AM »
    functionally, a melonite bore is exactly the same as a chrome bore for most of our civilian applications. hell, I don't think many of us would be able to notice the difference between chromed, melonite, and straight uncoated steel.

    You will notice the differences when you clean the barrel... the melonite resists build-up longer than the others, and it's easier to clean.

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    Re: Nitride VS Chrome-lined: WTA's thoughts
    « Reply #24 on: February 11, 2017, 09:50:45 AM »
    Has anyone here had a stainless steel barrel nitrided?

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