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Author Topic: Hevi-Shot for home defense? And what's "military-grade" buckshot?  (Read 10211 times)

Wes S.

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So I'm browsing the ammo shelves at Cabela's this afternoon in a fruitless search for affordable .44 Specials, and instead came across a couple of new 12-gauge shotgun loadings I hadn't seen before. Intended for home defense, one was by Hevi-Shot (the waterfowl guys) in five-round packs labled "Personal Protection." They were 2 3/4" low-brass loads containing "T" shot, which I'm not familiar with. (Used in goose loads? How big, precisely, is T shot?)    :scrutiny

There was also two similar rounds offered by Remington, also for HD, one of which contained BB shot, and the other marked "2X4" for the shot size. I'm guessing that meant the rounds contained both #2 and #4 shot. Price was quite high: $11 for five rounds of the Hevi-Shot, and $25 for ten rounds of the Remington loads. (By comparison, Cabela's was offering twenty-five rounds of Estate 00 Buck for $18, a box of which went home with me.)

I live in an apartment. Overpenetration is a worry for me; that's why the first round in my HD shotgun is #6 birdshot (followed by four of 00 buck, all of which I fervently hope I never need). Would Hevi-Shot Ts or Remington BBs be any less overpenetrative than buckshot while giving acceptable stopping power, should the worst occur...or should I stick to what I've got now?  :hmm

Cabela's was also offering "military-grade" 00 buckshot: what looked like standard Winchester buckshot rounds with an OD green case instead of the normal red, in a plain cardboard box, priced at two dollars a box more than the standard civilian version. Are color and price the only real difference?  Not that it's likely to matter at the ranges I'd likely be using my shotgun, say, from behind the bed to the home invader coming  through the bedroom door...
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only1asterisk

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Re: Hevi-Shot for home defense? And what's "military-grade" buckshot?
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2009, 10:31:59 PM »
Wes,

Size T is nominally .20".  I like lead T's when overpenetration is a concern.  Hevishot will easily out penetrate lead in all media.

This is what I've taken to using:  http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=150244

Precious Roy

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Re: Hevi-Shot for home defense? And what's "military-grade" buckshot?
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2009, 12:45:41 AM »
I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will correct me if I'm wrong but I can hazard a few educated guesses.

came across a couple of new 12-gauge shotgun loadings I hadn't seen before. Intended for home defense, one was by Hevi-Shot (the waterfowl guys) in five-round packs labled "Personal Protection." They were 2 3/4" low-brass loads containing "T" shot, which I'm not familiar with. (Used in goose loads? How big, precisely, is T shot?)

In buckshot terms T would be somewhere around...oh...#8 Buck maybe?  I can vouch for the fact that it knocks the snot out of canada geese.

There was also two similar rounds offered by Remington, also for HD, one of which contained BB shot,

BB is a couple of steps down from T if I remember correctly.

and the other marked "2X4" for the shot size. I'm guessing that meant the rounds contained both #2 and #4 shot.

Yup.  It loads both 2 and 4 shot.  I've used Remington Duplex loads for turkey for years.  Their 4x6 load.

$25 for ten rounds of the Remington loads.


It's been quite a few years since I bought a bunch of the duplex loads but I do recall they weren't cheap even back in the early to mid 90s which is what vintage my remaining boxes are.  I think I paid around 10 bucks back then for one of the little boxes.  I bought a case of it back then.

I live in an apartment. Overpenetration is a worry for me; that's why the first round in my HD shotgun is #6 birdshot (followed by four of 00 buck, all of which I fervently hope I never need). Would Hevi-Shot Ts or Remington BBs be any less overpenetrative than buckshot while giving acceptable stopping power, should the worst occur...or should I stick to what I've got now? 


Excellent question and I don't really have an answer.  The best research I've seen on defensive shotgun loads advised #1 buck as the best compromise between overpenetration and lethality.  Birdshot isn't particularly lethal according to the research I've seen (and from personally seeing some damage from it on a human in real life) but given the fact that it is being employed in a crowded apartment building with thin walls and since you have no clue as to what is beyond your own 4 walls I think if I was in your position I'd go with small birdshot and multiple rounds of it and hope that it is enough.

Cabela's was also offering "military-grade" 00 buckshot: what looked like standard Winchester buckshot rounds with an OD green case instead of the normal red, in a plain cardboard box, priced at two dollars a box more than the standard civilian version. Are color and price the only real difference?  Not that it's likely to matter at the ranges I'd likely be using my shotgun, say, from behind the bed to the home invader coming  through the bedroom door...

I've been told that the "military" shotgun ammo showing up is simply contract overruns and inspection rejects that while perfectly serviceable didn't pass military muster.  Sorta like those surplus Army boots you might find that have some misaligned seams or gloves that may have a finger slightly too long or short or be the wrong color.  Don't know if that is is true or not.  If I were Winchester I'd be churning out all of the OD green shells I could from my mil contract production line and sell the overage to the civilian market.  I'd charge twice as much for them since they're "tactical".  Slap a chunk of picatinny rail on the box and you wouldn't be able to keep them in stock.
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RandySBreth

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Re: Hevi-Shot for home defense? And what's "military-grade" buckshot?
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2009, 09:46:38 AM »
I like T for geese and varmints (close range Coyote and Fox), and that's in steel.
In Hevi-Shot I can only imagine how devastating it would be at close range. :flamethrower

I don't worry about the over-penetration thing. I train with the shotgun more so I won't miss. I use #2 or #3 buck in 20 ga. these days. It will go through walls and doors, and that's fine because I may have to shoot though walls or doors.
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Wes S.

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Re: Hevi-Shot for home defense? And what's "military-grade" buckshot?
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2009, 12:49:17 AM »
Last weekend I went ahead and bought a couple five-packs of the Hevi-Shot "Personal Defense" load. Next time I go to the range I'll try a couple of rounds and see how it patterns in my Mossberg.

If it works, I'll use a couple rounds of Hevi-Shot Ts up front followed by buckshot.

The one time I actually had to "use" my shotgun for home defense, the guy trying to break into my apartment fled when I chambered that first round. Hopefully any future encounters, should I be unfortunate enough to have any, will be as easily handled.

Precious Roy: When examining those "military-grade" Winchester buckshot rounds I found myself, for some strange reason, wondering why the rounds themselves didn't come equipped with little picatinny rails...  ;D
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GeorgeHill

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Re: Hevi-Shot for home defense? And what's "military-grade" buckshot?
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2009, 01:08:35 AM »
Hevi-Shot is becoming very popular... they are making some good stuff.  I know a guy that is swearing by the Dead Coyote load for just about everything.
I'm going to try it out myself to see.
Pattern each load.
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FluffyHitman

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Re: Hevi-Shot for home defense? And what's "military-grade" buckshot?
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2009, 01:28:32 AM »
Brassfetcher has a spreadsheet on testing done with 3" T-sized hevi-shot vs. gelatin here, I can't understand most of it, but it penetrated to 8 inches in the gelatin. Might work, but I am kind of iffy on it. The Box o' Truth and Old Painless have hammered birdshot is for birds, buckshot is for goblins into my head pretty well.
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only1asterisk

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Re: Hevi-Shot for home defense? And what's "military-grade" buckshot?
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2009, 01:43:22 AM »
Brassfetcher has a spreadsheet on testing done with 3" T-sized hevi-shot vs. gelatin here, I can't understand most of it, but it penetrated to 8 inches in the gelatin. Might work, but I am kind of iffy on it. The Box o' Truth and Old Painless have hammered birdshot is for birds, buckshot is for goblins into my head pretty well.


I just checked Brass Fetcher.  According to his tables, the median penetration was 10" with the deepest pellets going 12-14".
Not bad.  I wonder if Old Painless would be so kind as to test these?  I'm going to have to check out their Personal Protection load.

FluffyHitman

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Re: Hevi-Shot for home defense? And what's "military-grade" buckshot?
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2009, 01:46:02 AM »
Hmm, interesting. I was having a hard time loading some of the tables, I must have missed that one. I would love to see them tested, same with the Federal flitestopper pellets.
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Mumbles

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Re: Hevi-Shot for home defense? And what's "military-grade" buckshot?
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2009, 09:15:58 AM »
Quote
Cabela's was also offering "military-grade" 00 buckshot: what looked like standard Winchester buckshot rounds with an OD green case instead of the normal red
Huh.  Weird.  All the 12 ga. rounds I've ever seen in the Army have been either red or black.  Never seen OD green ones.

GeorgeHill

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Re: Hevi-Shot for home defense? And what's "military-grade" buckshot?
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2009, 10:44:25 PM »
I'm not sure what size the Flight Stopper pellets are - but they are a lot bigger than the BB shot.  You gotta remember that about the BB Shot Black Clouds... there are bigger pellets in there too... and they tear things up.  I do believe they do as much damage as Buck.  But held together in that Flight Control wad... they pattern better too.  And at about 15 yards - it's all just hitting like a Frangible Slug.
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Wes S.

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Re: Hevi-Shot for home defense? And what's "military-grade" buckshot?
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2009, 12:37:09 AM »
The only problem I have with Black Clouds for home defense is that they're a three-inch magnum load**, which in a twelve-gauge  hurts almost as much on both ends.  :o

Also, I lose one round of magazine capacity if I go with three-inch shells, and in a self-defense situation I want all the rounds I can get...

If Federal made the Black Cloud BBs in a 12-gauge 2 3/4" version I'd give them a try.


(**I've had some bad experiences with 12-gauge three-inch magnum loads, including one memorable incident involving a pistol-grip-only Mossberg Persuader riot gun and three-inch mag Winchester 00 buck that left me unable to use my right hand for two weeks due to intense swelling and pain. I'm OK with three-inchers in a 20-gauge, but as a non-hunter I don't really need them in a 12.

So I'm a recoil wimp. Sue me.  ;D)
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Re: Hevi-Shot for home defense? And what's "military-grade" buckshot?
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2009, 03:06:09 AM »
What an awesome thread!  I don't know how I've missed it for so long!  I need a 12 gauge and ammo selection is always fun!  thanks for the info guys!
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Precious Roy

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Re: Hevi-Shot for home defense? And what's "military-grade" buckshot?
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2009, 03:54:39 AM »
I've had some bad experiences with 12-gauge three-inch magnum loads,

A guy wants me to mount a red dot on his 12 gauge 3 inch Remington 870 deer gun and sight it in sometime before the first of the month.  Shows me his shotgun, the sight and a few boxes of 3 inch magnum slugs.  Says he wants it dialed in for 60 yards.

I can hardly wait.

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