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Author Topic: Difference between CAR-15 & M4  (Read 3808 times)

FMJ

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Difference between CAR-15 & M4
« on: April 28, 2009, 01:08:54 AM »
What is the difference between those two? barrel length?
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FluffyHitman

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Re: Difference between CAR-15 & M4
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2009, 02:18:00 AM »
CAR-15 was a blanket term for a lot of rifles, it stood for Colt Automatic Rifle, not Carbine as you might guess. The Colt Commando is what people usually think of, that one has/had either a 10 inch or an 11.5 inch barrel. The M4 was patterned after the M16A2, rather than the A1, so the two are very different. CAR-15 is a term that gets used inappropriately a lot when referring to short barreled AR-15s, in that case it usually means one shorter than an M4, regardless of other details.
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Nightcrawler

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Re: Difference between CAR-15 & M4
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2009, 12:52:31 PM »
In commercial terms, the CAR-15 was usually used to describe an AR-15 type carbine with a collasping stock and an 11.5" barrel.  The non-NFA versions of this had a permanently attached 5" flash-hider, to bring the barrel length to 16".  I don't think they had 16" AR-15 barrels in mass production until the mid-90s or so.

Basically, as Fluffy said, it was a blanket term for AR-type carbines, just as "M4" is now.
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FMJ

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Re: Difference between CAR-15 & M4
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2009, 06:26:16 PM »
Ok, and these Colt Commandos were built on A1 receivers?
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Re: Difference between CAR-15 & M4
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2009, 11:14:02 PM »
Yes, they were A1's.  Mine was.  That was my issued weapon. 
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as50-e.htm
Mine looked exactly like the second one from the top.  Exactly.   
It was  good weapon and at the time - thought there was nothing better.  Safe, Semi, Full Auto, adjustable stock, and in Semi Auto mode it was very accurate.  What I liked about it the best - it was very light.
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FMJ

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Re: Difference between CAR-15 & M4
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2009, 11:33:40 PM »
Was it fun?
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GeorgeHill

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Re: Difference between CAR-15 & M4
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2009, 12:01:08 AM »
Considering what I was doing, I wouldn't say it was fun.
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FluffyHitman

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Re: Difference between CAR-15 & M4
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2009, 12:22:46 AM »
How well did that big flash hider thing work? I've got to say that I really like the looks of that one, if I could find one in a caliber that did its job out of a 11.5 inch pipe, I would snap it up in an instant.

Another thing I've noticed is that the M4 has really big handguards, all the other ones are a thinner profile. Why? It looks bad, and seems like it would be worse to hold, is it using that extra few inches for heat shielding?
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Re: Difference between CAR-15 & M4
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2009, 06:30:22 PM »
Fluffy if I'm not mistaken the extra large hand guards are so as not to Burn Yo SELF!   :neener  Aside from that YMMV.
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Re: Difference between CAR-15 & M4
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2009, 12:28:09 PM »
I built a couple of AR-15's back in 1992 using 11.5" barrels with the 5.5" flash suppressors welded on (or are they 4.5"?).  For grins and giggles a friend and I tried them out at 300 yards on large military style high power rifle targets expecting to maybe hit the target a couple of times.  To our amazement all rounds except a couple were in the 12" black portion of the targets.  I would have not believed it if I had not witnessed it.

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Re: Difference between CAR-15 & M4
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2009, 02:16:51 PM »
I built a couple of AR-15's back in 1992 using 11.5" barrels with the 5.5" flash suppressors welded on (or are they 4.5"?).  For grins and giggles a friend and I tried them out at 300 yards on large military style high power rifle targets expecting to maybe hit the target a couple of times.  To our amazement all rounds except a couple were in the 12" black portion of the targets.  I would have not believed it if I had not witnessed it.
I am not surprised - barrel length is not as much an element of mechanical accuracy as some might think, particularly with today's barrel made in modern CNC facilities.  With the current generation of optics the long sight radius is also not essential eliminating the practical accuracy concern.  The only thing you are giving up is velocity - and that is not much of a concern at sub-300 yard ranges.

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Re: Difference between CAR-15 & M4
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2009, 06:34:02 PM »
The difference between the M4 and the CAR-15.

  CAR-15.
    5.56mm, 1 in 7 twist, 11.5in BBL, 5.5 in Muzzle break/ Expansion chamber. Full Auto, collapsible stock, A1 pattern receiver. It was made for the then issued 55grn M193 Vietnam era bullet.

  M4(A1)
    5.56mm, 1 in 9 twist, 14.5 in Hvy BBL, 1in birdcage Muzzle break, M203 profile bbl, 3rdn burst(Full auto on A1 SOPMOD), Collapsible stock, A2/A3 pattern rifle. Made to fire the heavier 62 to 77grn bullets. Also built as a modular weapons system.

  Unfortunately the modern day press and supposed know it alls in the different media's have used the CAR-15 Moniker to much. Kind of like the use of words likeTactical, Assault Weapons Ban, Assault Rifle, Weapons of Mass Destruction, AK-47 for anything that looks like an AK-47, Riot Guns, etc.
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steve--oh

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Re: Difference between CAR-15 & M4
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2009, 04:34:53 AM »

Another thing I've noticed is that the M4 has really big handguards, all the other ones are a thinner profile. Why? It looks bad, and seems like it would be worse to hold, is it using that extra few inches for heat shielding?


I've got big hands and I can't stand the car handguards. The oval M4s feel much better.

bmitchell

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Re: Difference between CAR-15 & M4
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2009, 08:52:28 AM »
Shouldn't a faster twist support a heavier bullet better than a slower twist?

Ben


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steve--oh

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Re: Difference between CAR-15 & M4
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2009, 11:29:20 AM »
Yes and I'm not sure if m1911 mistyped or what but the new twist is 1/7 and the old one is I think 1/11 or 1/12. Not sure about the old one I know it's slower than 1/7 though.

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Re: Difference between CAR-15 & M4
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2009, 11:29:31 AM »
Yes and I'm not sure if m1911 mistyped or what but the new twist is 1/7 and the old one is I think 1/11 or 1/12. Not sure about the old one I know it's slower than 1/7 though.

   Yeah sorry about that i did miss type it. The CAR 15 was 1/12 twist. word of advise don't try to type this stuff when you are running on only a couple of hours sleep, hungry, and have a headache.
Vermont".45 ACP giving our enemies a chance to die since 1911."
"The M1 Garand is the best battle implement ever designed." Patton.
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akodo

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Re: Difference between CAR-15 & M4
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2009, 10:14:58 PM »
CAR-15 Carbine, an attempt by Colt to Link the AR with the Colt brand name.  Until the switch to FN, every 'military designation' AR rifle had seperate Colt CAR-15 model number.  This is the equivalent of the Beretta 92 vs the military designation M9

For instance, CAR-15 Model 604 was the 'classic' M-16, CAR-15 Model 645 was the M16A2 etc etc

It can also refer to some 1960s era short AR-15s issued to the military with the standard 'light' A1 barrel of the time with a 1:12 twist, and 'classic' triangular handguard.

XM177E1
-10 inch barrel
-combination flash supressor and "sound moderator"
-overall length 28.3 and 31.0 with stock extended
-weight 5.2 lbs

XM177E2 -switched to a more modern handguard
-11.5 inch barrel (allowing it to fit grenade launcher)
-combination flash supressor and "sound moderator"
-overall length 29.8 and 32.5 with stock extended
-weight 5.35 lbs

CAR-15 Carbine (model 605 = safe, single, full auto.  605A = same with forward assist, 605B forward assist, 3 round burst)
-14.5 inch barrel
-standard "duckbill" flash supressor
-overall length 33.6 (fixed stock)
-weight 6 lbs

As the barrels of the 177s wore out, they were generally replaced with 14.5 inch heavy barrels and a short ribbed handguard

M4 Carbine
-14.5 inch barrel, but a 1:7 twist, slightly heavier
-Modern A2 flash supressor
-overall length 29.8 and 33.0 with stock extended
-weight 5.9 lbs


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