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Author Topic: 7.62x54r with steel core penetrators  (Read 8436 times)

Khorne

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7.62x54r with steel core penetrators
« on: December 15, 2010, 11:23:30 PM »
Okay, so we took the PSL's out today and gave them a test run with a new batch of soviet AP ammo.  We brought along some large heavy metal objects to test the efficacy of steel core penetrators.  They performed better than I had hoped.
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FMJ

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Re: 7.62x54r with steel core penetrators
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2010, 11:37:12 PM »
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Grant

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Re: 7.62x54r with steel core penetrators
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2010, 11:42:45 PM »
 I didn't load the video (sorry.  50K dialup....5 minute vid....It'd take half the evening).

 What's the headstamp markings,etc. on the cases?   I ask, as as I'm curious.    I've some Czech silver tip (Or supposedly Czech?) that has a mild steel core.  When hitting an object, the jacket sheds virtually instantly and the cores wreaks havoc.      

     I saw some "Russian" "Silver tip AP" for sale on a forum awhile ago and was curious if this "AP" ammo is just mild-steel cored ammo, or if the "Czech" stuff I got was actually Russian.  

    I mean it's steel core, and admittedly mild-steel is better than lead, but not a true AP round.

P.S> before posting. I found a link I'd lost,  I've definately got Czech.   The shipping case is differant from russian.
Czech: http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinAmmo011.htm
Russian: http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinAmmo025.htm
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GeorgeHill

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Re: 7.62x54r with steel core penetrators
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2010, 12:11:04 AM »
The stuff we got is Russian.  And it's not Mild anything.  It's AP ammo.  It's meant to punch light armor, and it does it just fine.  You hit metal straight on - it goes straight through.
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GeorgeHill

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Re: 7.62x54r with steel core penetrators
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2010, 12:12:00 AM »
In the video if you look carefully, you can see that second exit hole that I didn't see at first..
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Re: 7.62x54r with steel core penetrators
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2010, 10:40:08 AM »
The stuff we got is Russian.  And it's not Mild anything.  It's AP ammo.  It's meant to punch light armor, and it does it just fine.  You hit metal straight on - it goes straight through.

Now imagine that stuff, in belted form, being used against light armored vehicles.  Ouch.

I remember, back in 2000 at IOAC, planning (map drill) anti-armor ambushes against BTR and BRDM equipped 'bad guys' using M240s with belted AP.  Guys who had seen the inside of some dead ones in Bosnia affirmed that 7.62 AP will punch nice holes in them.

Needless to say, .50 cal just wrecks them.  And the 25mm AP-sabot is complete overkill, actually less effective than .50.
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Re: 7.62x54r with steel core penetrators
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2010, 11:01:10 AM »
The stuff we got is Russian.  And it's not Mild anything.  It's AP ammo.  It's meant to punch light armor, and it does it just fine.  You hit metal straight on - it goes straight through.

Wait, I may be wrong here, but... isn't that stuff... ah... of questionable legality?
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JesseL

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Re: 7.62x54r with steel core penetrators
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2010, 11:03:41 AM »
Wait, I may be wrong here, but... isn't that stuff... ah... of questionable legality?

No.

AP is perfectly legal except in "handgun" calibers.

I'm pretty sure that even ownership of handgun AP ammo is legal, just not importing or selling it.
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Re: 7.62x54r with steel core penetrators
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2010, 11:45:34 AM »
How does it compare to 30.06 AP?   Also where did you get it?   
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Re: 7.62x54r with steel core penetrators
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2010, 12:49:12 PM »
 :o  George, is that a Crusader mackie?  If so where the heck can I get one?

And good video too.  I like seeing holes punched through metal.  Interesting note:  I never noticed it before, but hearing you and Zach talk at the same time, you guys have a bit of an accent.  Are my ears fooling me, or where is that from?
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Harm

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Re: 7.62x54r with steel core penetrators
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2010, 12:54:37 PM »
What is a Mackie?  ???
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Re: 7.62x54r with steel core penetrators
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2010, 01:06:04 PM »
?  Type of hat George is wearing in the video.  You guys don't call that a mackie?
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Re: 7.62x54r with steel core penetrators
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2010, 01:37:06 PM »
I've always called those flat caps...
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seanp

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Re: 7.62x54r with steel core penetrators
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2010, 01:59:32 PM »
Hmm... according to Wiki it is called a "flat cap".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_cap

I shall refer to them as such henceforth, local vernacular aside.
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Re: 7.62x54r with steel core penetrators
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2010, 02:05:55 PM »
I wear one when I go golfing.
Now if I can find a good set of knickers ...
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Re: 7.62x54r with steel core penetrators
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2010, 02:19:29 PM »
Ah.  Yeah I've always called it a flatcap or a golfcap.   :shrug

Not sure it matters what you call it as long as you're willing to clarify.
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Re: 7.62x54r with steel core penetrators
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2010, 02:29:44 PM »
No.

AP is perfectly legal except in "handgun" calibers.

I'm pretty sure that even ownership of handgun AP ammo is legal, just not importing or selling it.

Didn't know that. Thanks, Jesse.

Actually, I wish you hadn't told me that... 'cause now I want some.  ;) Seriously, what's more fun than shooting dents in engine blocks? Shooting nice clean holes right through them! Actually, I might be able to use this in Dead Reckoning. Hmm....
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seanp

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Re: 7.62x54r with steel core penetrators
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2010, 02:34:00 PM »
Where I grew up it was called a "mackie".  Made out of tweed and worn mainly by UK immigrants that also wore macintosh coats.
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Re: 7.62x54r with steel core penetrators
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2010, 05:45:14 PM »
It's also called in some circles a "driving cap".   No, it's not a Crusader thing per say... but when I saw it, I had to get it.
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Khorne

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Re: 7.62x54r with steel core penetrators
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2010, 06:41:30 PM »
Wait...I have an accent?  I'd love to see a belt fed weapon loaded with this stuff.  Vicious.  I didn't know that about the 7.62 going through BTRM's or anything like that.  Wow.
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Grant

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Re: 7.62x54r with steel core penetrators
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2010, 06:50:19 PM »
  Around here we called them caps "Scotch caps" or "Brit Caps".    'Cause only a rare few people other than "Aisles" emmigrants wore them.

   Want an AP round?  Load some Barnes TSX's into a belted round  ;D   I've been planning/wanting to get some Barnes Bronze Banded Solids and load them into a 7MM or .257 Weatherby.  Might not equal a true hardened steel penetrator but as close as we can get  ;D

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Re: 7.62x54r with steel core penetrators
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2010, 10:22:05 PM »
Now imagine that stuff, in belted form, being used against light armored vehicles.  Ouch.

Ok I am picturing it....

Only one minor problem,

I have the belts, now where do I get this ammo?
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FMJ

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Re: 7.62x54r with steel core penetrators
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2010, 03:13:20 AM »
Hmm... according to Wiki it is called a "flat cap".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_cap

I shall refer to them as such henceforth, local vernacular aside.


When I was little, I used to turn my granfather's black cap side ways and pretend it was a military beret.  Then I realized that Saddam (at the time) wore one just like that. 

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I have like 15 loose rounds of Sellier & Bellot "bxn" headstamp 1986 7.62x54R FMJBT steel core.  Would these count as AP rounds?
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Re: 7.62x54r with steel core penetrators
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2010, 12:23:23 AM »
So... where can I buy this ammo for my M44?  :hmm

Khorne

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Re: 7.62x54r with steel core penetrators
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2010, 12:24:58 AM »
Just look for Russian Silver Tip.   It's not true AP and the steel core is soft steel, but still, it does alright.
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