Help support WeTheArmed.com by visiting our sponsors.

Author Topic: 585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --  (Read 13023 times)

hubel585

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 149

  • Offline
585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --
« on: October 09, 2013, 02:46:57 AM »
585 HE --- Super Strong --

If you've followed our work in the 12ga FH thread you've seen
our  585 HE cartridge and its development. We have barrels
of cases and more coming.

We have put it in all kinds of guns, and tested it with 650gr
bullet over 3000 fps as heavy load to test the brass, and also
for lighter game like deer and hogs and target fun we found
that some of  440gr- 540gr  58cal Minie bullets work great

First picture shows it next to 505 Gibbs, it has same overall
loaded length as a Gibbs. Holds up to 190gr ball powder.

Next pic is a barrel of cases

 Third  representative of types of guns we have it in.Ed

.

.

.

WeTheArmed.com

  • Advertisement
  • ***

    hacksaw

    • Member
    • **
    • Posts: 169

    • Offline
    Re: 585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --
    « Reply #1 on: October 09, 2013, 02:56:16 AM »
    I'll give you a call when I finally get drawn for a T-rex license!!! That cannot be even moderately comfortable to shoot! But is whispers to my dark side..yesss precioussssss......
    Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
    illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream
    media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible
    to pick up a turd by the clean end

    hubel585

    • Member
    • **
    • Posts: 149

    • Offline
    Re: 585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --
    « Reply #2 on: October 09, 2013, 03:13:59 AM »
    It can be loaded moderate, or light, and guns are weighted
    and have thick pads. Still doesn't kick like the 4 bore or
    700HE or long 12ga FH. Moderate loads are still faster
    than competition..Ed

    hubel585

    • Member
    • **
    • Posts: 149

    • Offline
    Re: 585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --
    « Reply #3 on: October 13, 2013, 02:30:21 AM »
    We get asked about recoil. Guns are weighted a little, thick pads,
    can be ported, use moderate loads, they shoot nice...And moderate
    loads still much faster than 577NE. And can be had without costing a
    years pay. Most local users(only 1 in  10000 hunters go Africa) can
    shoot lighter .585 Minie bullets, which load for about 95 cents each,
    once you have cases. Great for target fun, hogs, deer,  etc... Cases
    last forever. We can load to any power level we need or want.
    Folks can get 100 cases, dies,  barrel to put in something, 750 bucks.

    Asked about #1, And perfect case for the Ruger #1.
    The few #1s ever done in 577, they had to relieve
    metal behind the action shoulders that breach block
    rests against because of rim. Ours don't have to and the #1s
    extractors I've seen work better with belted than big rimmed.
    Ours holds more powder, cases built for extreme pressures.Ed


     

    HiVelSword

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 4009
    • Sweeten' the ride

    • Offline
    Re: 585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --
    « Reply #4 on: October 13, 2013, 12:28:30 PM »
    Um. 650 grain at 3,000 fps is 12,975 foot pounds....

    That is...AWESOME!!!!  :clap
    To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

    "You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

    Coronach

    • WTA Staff
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 6791
    • Armorer: Colt 1911, M16, Glock, M&P, Rem 700 & 870

    • Offline
    Re: 585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --
    « Reply #5 on: October 13, 2013, 05:34:57 PM »
    I need a new varmint rifle...

    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

    OhioNot stressed, but I am a carrier.

    akodo

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 3352

    • Offline
    Re: 585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --
    « Reply #6 on: October 13, 2013, 07:35:31 PM »
    I need a new varmint rifle...




    for elephant-varmints?

    Prairie Rhinos?

    Coronach

    • WTA Staff
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 6791
    • Armorer: Colt 1911, M16, Glock, M&P, Rem 700 & 870

    • Offline
    Re: 585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --
    « Reply #7 on: October 13, 2013, 09:00:11 PM »
    ... chipmunks...

    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

    OhioNot stressed, but I am a carrier.

    hubel585

    • Member
    • **
    • Posts: 149

    • Offline
    Re: 585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --
    « Reply #8 on: October 15, 2013, 02:18:47 AM »
    We can use lighter 585 Minies for Charging Chipmunks,
    instead of hollering AALVAAN...... Cartridge is versatile, I've used 4 black powder
    pellets in the case with 440gr Minie bullet, and on the other side works great with high BC
    Barnes long spire pointed bullets as a 1000 yd gun. Guy doing one for that
    with heavy long barrel.Ed

    HiVelSword

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 4009
    • Sweeten' the ride

    • Offline
    Re: 585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --
    « Reply #9 on: October 15, 2013, 10:20:32 AM »
    Well, I for one would take a bolt gun in this cartridge than any of the Nitro's.

    That cartridge is ridiculous. Keep up the amazing work!
    To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

    "You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

    Deathrider1579

    • Contributor
    • ****
    • Posts: 1637

    • Offline
    Re: 585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --
    « Reply #10 on: October 15, 2013, 12:11:14 PM »
    I want to see what that would do to dear and hogs in the SETX brush.
    "If we don't fight as radicals for our liberty, eventually we will have none."-sqlbullet
    "The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity." -Yeats

    Wolf-Dragon

    • Senior Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 743

    • Offline
    Re: 585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --
    « Reply #11 on: October 15, 2013, 06:24:23 PM »
    Hey got an acurized version that I can use to take a nat off a rhino's tail at 800 meters?
    Spoiler (click to show/hide)

    Coronach

    • WTA Staff
    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 6791
    • Armorer: Colt 1911, M16, Glock, M&P, Rem 700 & 870

    • Offline
    Re: 585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --
    « Reply #12 on: October 15, 2013, 11:19:52 PM »
    Make a Derringer version. We got a guy here who would buy it. ;)

    Mike

    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

    OhioNot stressed, but I am a carrier.

    HiVelSword

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 4009
    • Sweeten' the ride

    • Offline
    Re: 585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --
    « Reply #13 on: October 16, 2013, 12:38:33 AM »
    Make a Derringer version. We got a guy here who would buy it. ;)



    So because I bought a .44 mag derringer instead of a .45-70 derringer I somehow would think a .585 derringer would be awesome...  :hmm

    Yeah, no.
    To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

    "You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

    hubel585

    • Member
    • **
    • Posts: 149

    • Offline
    Re: 585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --
    « Reply #14 on: October 16, 2013, 01:09:20 PM »
    Make for interesting shooting in a revolver.Ed

    hubel585

    • Member
    • **
    • Posts: 149

    • Offline
    Re: 585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --
    « Reply #15 on: October 24, 2013, 05:19:29 AM »
    Case doesn't need  special made shellholder, number 31 RCBS fits fine.
    It is a straight belted case that holds up to 190gr of doublebase powder.
    Powder need not be like charcoal, IE, really slow powder, as necked
     needs. So it has effiencies of 37-39%, where necked cases are
    about 29%. Here is one done in a Savage..



    The loads tested at high pressures about 65,000 psi, when extracting, the
    weight of the bolt after opening pulled cases out. We've fired moderate
    loads in singleshots that we mono-blocked barrels into and the cases fall
    out after firing. Here are couple a nice singles with 585HE  in them.





    Cases are made super strong, in the same factory run as the super
    high pressure Cheytac cases. The base of our case is same size ahead of
    belt as Cheytac/Gibbs bases. Done with same cups and draws, just uses
    a different header, bunter, and sizer. Here is picture of the one we made
    and the factory one sectioned showing the strong built inside corners.
    These are not balloon head junk cases.



    We and CH4D have die sets, Manson makes reamers, and we have some.
    Reamer specs  all set and the chambers made with them, the cases
    extract at the highest pressures.
    Here is pic of one we set with 585HE in a Greener GP.Ed






    Wolf-Dragon

    • Senior Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 743

    • Offline
    Re: 585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --
    « Reply #16 on: October 24, 2013, 04:22:03 PM »
    Oooohhh... Nice!
    Spoiler (click to show/hide)

    HiVelSword

    • Senior Contributor
    • *****
    • Posts: 4009
    • Sweeten' the ride

    • Offline
    Re: 585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --
    « Reply #17 on: October 24, 2013, 04:26:12 PM »
    Is the bolt gun with the gray stock a repeater or a single-shot?
    To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

    "You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

    hubel585

    • Member
    • **
    • Posts: 149

    • Offline
    Re: 585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --
    « Reply #18 on: October 25, 2013, 07:00:53 PM »
    It is singleshot in the picture  but I have setup a singlestack mag
    for it. It is internal mag. ED

    Wolf-Dragon

    • Senior Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 743

    • Offline
    Re: 585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --
    « Reply #19 on: October 25, 2013, 10:04:13 PM »
    I may buy one to have fun with... >:D
    Spoiler (click to show/hide)

    hubel585

    • Member
    • **
    • Posts: 149

    • Offline
    Re: 585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --
    « Reply #20 on: October 29, 2013, 11:50:11 AM »
    WE get asked about whether the 585HE is a DD due to being
    over 50 cal, and no it is not, as we applied for and got a
    sporting cartridge exemption few years ago.

    First picture is base view of cases new and old. On the left is
    4 new ones that come with no headstamp that I stamped,
    and the 6 new ones in the middle has a 585 stamp.
    We got a barrel full without stamp and guys can wildcat
    them and put their own stamp on..

    Second is side view with some in # 31 holders.No special
    holders needed. .Notice how uniform belts are on the new
    shiny ones. Dark ones are ones I made years ago.

    Third is one with AP bore rider bullet in with others
    behind. Maybe make a great long range target cartridge.
    Got a guy setting up one with long heavy barrel for that.

       

       



    Here is picture of 585HE with 700gr HP CEB bullet and 750 gr
    wide meplat CEB bullet..Ed


    hubel585

    • Member
    • **
    • Posts: 149

    • Offline
    Re: 585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --
    « Reply #21 on: November 08, 2013, 02:55:20 AM »
    In the pictures above you see the older first cases I made from Nyati
    cases and other cases that were Nyati clones. These were straight basic,
    long, untrimed cases, so I could get the longer case we wanted.

    We get asked about the process of doing it and here is picture sketch
    showing original case, a case with the start of a belt step, and finally
    a case after it is swaged and sized. Note the belt diameter ends up the
    same as the base diameter of the original brass. These cases we made
    years ago was how we got the 585HE started and tested and some guns
    done. This process can only work with original cases that have a thick
    corner radius to leave plenty of thickness ahead of the belt. In doing this
    process with different wildcats we have found cases that wouldn't work.



    Now these cases have a diameter that works with regular bolt guns, 
    without extreme machining on the bolt, as opposed to 577NE and Trex.
    Here is picture of a case held in a Ruger bolt, for example..



    And our case is large enough capacity to get the power, without being an
    oversize, soft case. Thicksided  cases relative to size of the case are much
    harder to harden the heads and the lower body back up  to proper strength.
    because of the extreme annealling needed, in the drawing
    and heading operations in the manufacturing process.
    Our cases are made with same cups and draws as the ultra high pressure
    Cheytac cases, and our real high pressure tests show they perform with
    no extraction problems.



    Here is picture of a O/U I had top barrel sleeved with smooth tube, and use
    the 585HE in it with lightweight, hollowbase Minie bullets. Shoots about as
    accurate as foster slugs in a 12ga. Bottom barrel is 3.5" 12ga smooth.








    hubel585

    • Member
    • **
    • Posts: 149

    • Offline
    Re: 585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --
    « Reply #22 on: November 20, 2013, 12:36:57 AM »
    Some more info- For guys in other countries you can get cases
    from Bertram in Australia. I can send die sets. There is a guy
    in AUS that has a reamer I sent him.

    We have experimented with black powder type of loads and the
    Minie bullets, The Minies we use are the ones measuring .585".
    Also for reduced loads with lesser amounts of powder we found
    that 24ga wads  work perfect in the case, like in this picture.



    WE did couple guns in smooth barrel to test  hollowbase Minies.
    Found that they work for shot in our case. Holds 3/4 oz of shot.
    Put a 24ga card on top and glue it in.



    We even got one in good ole NEF, with a 585 barrel monoblocked
    into it and gun weighted, with thick pad. Guy in TX got one also
    and there is video on ytube-- URL below--  Ed





     




    hubel585

    • Member
    • **
    • Posts: 149

    • Offline
    Re: 585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --
    « Reply #23 on: December 16, 2013, 03:09:00 AM »
    We have a guy who is working toward getting the 585HE cases into
    Canada, for guys there to be able to get them from him..

    Our case works for black powder type of loads using .585" Minie 
    Bullets also. Here is picture sectioned case with 4 Pyrodex 54 cal
    pellets stacked behind a 440 gr Minie  Bullet.Goes over 2500.
    Can be loaded with 3 pellets and 24ga cushion wad.



    Here is an innovation in a 585HE Falling Block we did. It's in a
    one piece thumbhole rifle stock. Nice to handle and shoots heavy
    loads a comfortable as a weighted bolt action gun. FBW brand.



    Here is a bunch of barrels we have, the wrapped ones are slow
    twist just for guys doing 585HE  guns to use Minie bullets for
    deer, hogs, target, and plain ole fun Using black or smokeless.



    Here is picture of one being done by a guy on a big Enfield with a
    nice figured Walnut stock. It is weighted and has a thick pad.
    Being done African style with thick barrel and integral front sight.
    You can see a bunch cases in background shelf.--Ed







    Mississippi556

    • Senior Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 837

    • Offline
    Re: 585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --
    « Reply #24 on: December 16, 2013, 02:39:49 PM »
    The work up for this cartridge is amazing.  I congratulate you for what you have done.  I'm just trying to figure out what I could possible use this round for.   I spent a few hours this past weekend working up some hand loads for a single shot .45-70.   This is a stout action and my model for comparison is the 405 grain Buffalo Bore .45-70 Magnum.   I was able to replicate that load, slightly improve on it with 53.0 grains of  H-4198 powder.  Out of a very long 32 inch barrel, I actually was seeing a bit over 2100 fps.  The thought of 3,000 fps with a projectile half again as heavy is . . . frightening.

    What does that have to do with your cartridge?  Well, those .45-70 Magnum loads are producing 4,000 ft. lbs. of energy and something on the order of 43 pounds of recoil energy from that 8 lb. rifle.   That's about all I can handle.  Shooting a few rounds is no big deal, but sitting down at the bench and firing more than a few is not very much fun, frankly.  Even so, that load is adequate for any creature in the Western Hemisphere, including the largest polar bears or brown bears.

    I could see some potential military sniper use with special optics that allowed good image quality at 1 mile+ ranges.

    I appreciate your efforts, I just don't know how I, as civilian, would put such a rifle to use.   If I have to download it, then, I'm back to my .45-70 Magnum.  Maybe I'm missing something?
    Mississippi"When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe"  Words of Jesus, Luke 11:21 (ESV).

    Help support WeTheArmed.com by visiting our sponsors.