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Author Topic: .500 S&W AR-15  (Read 13501 times)

Thernlund

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.500 S&W AR-15
« on: August 20, 2009, 06:24:37 PM »
I was goofing off and happened upon this discussion...

WARNING:  Some rough language
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=77106e9b3890f4a9a30a82b434b2aecc&t=68248

Interesting idea.  I especially like this comment (originally from ARFCOM, reposted to the above thread, now reposted here)...

Quote
Aside from the bolt strength, feeding is the issue. The S&W headspaces on the rim. This means the chamber has to have a ring around it to support the rim, but small enough to still fall within the bolt face recess (the recess is deeper than the rim is thick). Plus, this ring has to have a section removed to allow clearance for the extractor to rotate. So you are now trying to feed a round into a chamber that has a sharp metal ring surrounding it and you are trying to do so with gaping hollow point stubby round bullets. Note that the normal AR chamber has a chamfer to help guide the round into the chamber if it is not perfectly heading that way already. Making the rimmed rounds feed is a BEAR, ask Tony, the 44 Mag uppers he built were finicky as all get go.

Then there is the minor mag issue, the 50B and 458S will single stack nicely due to absence of a rim (or a rebated one if you insist). Having the rimmed 500 S&W stack will be a challenge, given the limitations and will require a dedicated mag. While 22LR is cheap to shoot and folks can be persuaded to buy lots of custom mags for that caliber, the market for 500S&W will just not support that type of investment.

If someone REALLY wanted an upper in 500S&W, it COULD be done, but the cost would be outrageous and it would have to be someone's pet project. A smith would end up having to charge way too much for R&D time...

Note on the 44 Mag upper from Tromix, you would think that with magazines available (from another platform) and a very well known and popular round, sales would have been outstanding. Even following an article in Gun World, all of SIX were sold. The .50AE far outsold it and after that arrived the .50B and .458S which vastly outsold the .50AE.


So... possible.  Just not probable. 

If I had a ton of cash laying around, that'd be a cool project.


-T.
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HiVelSword

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Re: .500 S&W AR-15
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2009, 06:27:58 PM »
The revolver rim is a PITA to deal with in semi-auto's. IMO, just go for a .50 Beowulf and call it a day.
To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

"You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

JesseL

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Re: .500 S&W AR-15
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2009, 06:31:03 PM »
That's just crazy. Who would even think to shoehorn something into a gun that it was never designed to take? People who look at a nice new gun that's just fine the way it was designed and just start thinking of ways they can mess it up make me  :headexplode




 ;D
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Harm

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Re: .500 S&W AR-15
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2009, 06:33:04 PM »
uh huh.  SURE Jesse...  WE BELIEVE YOU!   :neener
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Deer Hunter

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Re: .500 S&W AR-15
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2009, 06:34:36 PM »
I get funny looks at the range with some of my guns... But that one sure would be a head-turner!

I like the idea of it, but the .50-110 AK/PSL was the best.
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FluffyHitman

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Re: .500 S&W AR-15
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2009, 06:37:17 PM »
The revolver rim is a PITA to deal with in semi-auto's. IMO, just go for a .50 Beowulf and call it a day.
Ammo is easier to find in .500 than .50 Beowulf, thanks to Alexander Arms' monopoly on making the ammunition. Cheaper too.
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Thernlund

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Re: .500 S&W AR-15
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2009, 06:38:09 PM »
That's just crazy. Who would even think to shoehorn something into a gun that it was never designed to take? People who look at a nice new gun that's just fine the way it was designed and just start thinking of ways they can mess it up make me  :headexplode

:rotfl

...

I wonder if you could get some .500S&W brass and mill off the extra rim.  Call it .500 S&W Auto, or "five hundred swaaa".

Next project Jesse?  ;)


-T.
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Harm

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Re: .500 S&W AR-15
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2009, 06:38:32 PM »
Doh!  Just realized that I made a comment razzing Jesse but forgot to comment on the gun!   :doh

I like the idea of a semi auto 50 cal with 20-30 rd mags.  Even a lower pressured one.  But that does seem like just a lot of work.  

And while I wouldn't get a 50 Beowulf, instead I think I'd get the .458 Socom or that Bushmaster round.  

Too bad you can't put a 45-70 into an AR!   :devillol
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Deer Hunter

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Re: .500 S&W AR-15
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2009, 06:45:33 PM »


I wish I could find the actual page.
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JesseL

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Re: .500 S&W AR-15
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2009, 06:47:00 PM »
I wonder if you could get some .500S&W brass and mill off the extra rim.  Call it .500 S&W Auto, or "five hundred swaaa".

Next project Jesse?  ;)

That actually sounds a lot easier than some of the projects that have been proposed to me lately. I don't think it would be too hard at all. You'd have to switch to a taper crimp and headspace on the case mouth.

Stick it in an AR-10 and it might work  :hmm
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Re: .500 S&W AR-15
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2009, 07:25:42 PM »
That actually sounds a lot easier than some of the projects that have been proposed to me lately. I don't think it would be too hard at all. You'd have to switch to a taper crimp and headspace on the case mouth.

Stick it in an AR-10 and it might work  :hmm

So you "mill off the extra rim" and what does the extractor grab onto?
To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

"You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

FluffyHitman

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Re: .500 S&W AR-15
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2009, 07:29:18 PM »
The .500 S&W has a somewhat unconventional rim, it doesn't just go straight out like the older ones. Look at the picture here: http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/STmonster_1103A.jpg looks to me like it has plenty to grab on to after you mill it to more or less rimless.
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JesseL

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Re: .500 S&W AR-15
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2009, 07:33:41 PM »
So you "mill off the extra rim" and what does the extractor grab onto?


Make it like any other "rimless" or rebated rim case. Kinda like turning .30-30 Win into .30 Remington or .44 Mag into .44 AMP.



And while I was posting I see FH's post:
The .500 S&W has a somewhat unconventional rim, it doesn't just go straight out like the older ones. Look at the picture here: http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/STmonster_1103A.jpg looks to me like it has plenty to grab on to after you mill it to more or less rimless.


That makes it look even easier.
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Thernlund

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Re: .500 S&W AR-15
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2009, 07:33:47 PM »
What Fluffy said.  If you look at the rim of the .500 you see that it is inlet like an auto (round on the right)...



So if you take off the extra, you have an auto round, no?


-T.
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JesseL

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Re: .500 S&W AR-15
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2009, 07:35:01 PM »
It might be a good idea to cut the groove a little deeper to make sure the extractor can get enough purchase... :hmm
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Thernlund

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Re: .500 S&W AR-15
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2009, 07:35:40 PM »
But would that weaken the case?


-T.
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JesseL

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Re: .500 S&W AR-15
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2009, 07:38:31 PM »
Not appreciably. If these were old balloon head style cases it would be a problem, but modern brass is very solid through that area.

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Re: .500 S&W AR-15
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2009, 08:00:05 PM »
That actually sounds a lot easier than some of the projects that have been proposed to me lately. I don't think it would be too hard at all. You'd have to switch to a taper crimp and headspace on the case mouth.

Stick it in an AR-10 and it might work  :hmm


I can only wonder what could those abominations might be  ::).



:hmm that could be easier to modify than the AR-10, I recon the Nagant ammo is about an inch?

FluffyHitman

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Re: .500 S&W AR-15
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2009, 08:13:55 PM »
7.62x54R is almost an inch longer than .500 S&W, and more than a third of an inch longer than x51. The .500 is actually a bit shorter than even 5.56.
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Garaballo

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Re: .500 S&W AR-15
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2009, 08:25:06 PM »
It's not about how long a cartridge is, that can be worked out, the problem is how wide it is.

Sadly, that's my whole impression on the issue, heh... I think I've not learned anything despite being advised by a couple talented people.

FluffyHitman

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Re: .500 S&W AR-15
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2009, 08:28:58 PM »
What is the widest that can fit in a STANAG 5.56 magazine? The base (not rim) of the .50 beowulf is slightly thinner than the rim of the S&W magnum, if you milled it down to be rimless the Swaaa (for best effect, say like Jeremy Clarkson says the last word of "In the world") would probably be almost exactly as wide as the beowulf's base.
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strangelittleman

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Re: .500 S&W AR-15
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2009, 08:29:54 PM »
Heck, just place a .50A&E into an AR with a lower that has a pinned & blocked mag well set up like the the Colt M7 9mm SMG, but with a 12.5"bbl D.I. upper, rather than the blow-back upper of the M7. Mags would have to be proprietary.
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FluffyHitman

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Re: .500 S&W AR-15
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2009, 08:32:01 PM »
.50 AE isn't nearly as powerful, though. Might as well do a .454 if you are doing that. And it is wider then the beowulf all around.
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Re: .500 S&W AR-15
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2009, 08:38:52 PM »
.50 AE isn't nearly as powerful, though. Might as well do a .454 if you are doing that. And it is wider then the beowulf all around.
True it's not as powerful as the S&W, but a .50 A&E SMG at CQB distances is going to smart a bit when it hits.
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FluffyHitman

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Re: .500 S&W AR-15
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2009, 08:43:18 PM »
So will 5.56. This is tim taylor gun design, if we could fit a 14.5x114 in an AR-15, we would do it.
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