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Author Topic: .300 Whisper/.300 Blackout questions  (Read 10350 times)

HiVelSword

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.300 Whisper/.300 Blackout questions
« on: June 30, 2011, 02:20:48 PM »
Here's me again talking about money that I don't have. What else is new?

That aside, aren't these two basically the same thing? I mean, Wiki isn't the be-all and end all on factual data but I feel pretty safe when it comes to rounds. So here are the two.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_AAC_Blackout_(7.62%C3%9735mm)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.300_Whisper

Same diameter bullets, same weight, similar velocities. I'm sure each max load would be almost identical for each.

The .300 Whisper has been around for years. The Blackout is the new kid on the block but is it really new?

I mean, I'm really not seeing much of a difference. Next year I'm going for a 9" SBR with a can. Am I flipping a coin or is the .300 going to wane in the .300 BLK's shadow? Or is the .300 BLK's candle going to burn too brightly and fall to the popularity level of the .300 Whisper?

I could say I should go with the one that has the most available ammo. Whisper has Cor Bon and Hornady as well as a handful of others. But next year the .300 BLK might have just as many under its belt.

I guess I'm asking you all to take a stab at predicting the future as well as your opinions on both cartridges.
To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

"You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen


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Thernlund

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Re: .300 Whisper/.300 Blackout questions
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2011, 02:36:28 PM »
The obvious reason might be SSK's trademark on "Whisper".  They've been pretty militant about defending it in the past.

Some say that that's the main, maybe SOLE reason for the existence of .300BLK.



I think it would be about as popular as .300 Whisper except for the fact that .300BLK has Remington behind it.  Remington can make it work with minimal jackassery.


-T.
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JesseL

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Re: .300 Whisper/.300 Blackout questions
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2011, 02:54:19 PM »
.300 AAC Blackout:


.300 Whisper:



They're extremely similar dimensionally. The BLK is a fraction of a millimeter longer in a couple key dimensions. Don't take my word for it, but it looks like you could probably get away with firing Whisper ammo in a BLK chamber but not vice versa.

I think T's got it right. The BLK is primarily an end run around SSK's jackassery. See the 6.5 Grendel & .264 LBC-AR for the same story. Go way back and see the .22 Varminter and .22-250 Remington.

Way too many small armsmakers and gunsmiths over the years have gotten the idea that they can get rich by necking a cartridge up or down and rabidly defending the name that they give the result. They never seem to realize that all they have rights to is the name, and anyone can give their creation a new one.

They'd be better off letting it go and getting at least the recognition for having come up with something neat, than being jerks about it and going down in history as the inventor of the obscure predecessor to something neat.
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seanp

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Re: .300 Whisper/.300 Blackout questions
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2011, 03:01:28 PM »
They'd be better off letting it go and getting at least the recognition for having come up with something neat, than being jerks about it and going down in history as the inventor of the obscure predecessor to something neat.

My thoughts exactly.
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HiVelSword

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Re: .300 Whisper/.300 Blackout questions
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2011, 03:34:36 PM »
I've never really liked J.D. Jones much anyway. And now I find he's just as much of a d-bag when it comes to the cartridges.

Yeah, when the time comes I'm going with the BLK.
To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

"You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

Outbreak

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Re: .300 Whisper/.300 Blackout questions
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2011, 04:48:57 PM »
Everyone beat me to it. They changed it just enough to make it different, then sent the specs off to SAAMI so anyone and everyone can produce ammo, barrels, tools, dies, etc for it.

As an example, here is a list of companies making .300BLK products on Silencertalk. It's growing.
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HiVelSword

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Re: .300 Whisper/.300 Blackout questions
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2011, 05:34:59 PM »
Everyone beat me to it. They changed it just enough to make it different, then sent the specs off to SAAMI so anyone and everyone can produce ammo, barrels, tools, dies, etc for it.

As an example, here is a list of companies making .300BLK products on Silencertalk. It's growing.


Awesome! It's bad enough I still have a dumb phone I don't wanna be the guy that chose the Whisper over the BLK.

But that's next year anyway. I'm getting a smartphone either next month or August. Do you have any idea how embarrassing it is to reply to a text on this stupid Motorola RZR when there's people around?


Gah! I feel like I should be driving an Edsel!
To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

"You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen


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Wolffstarr

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Re: .300 Whisper/.300 Blackout questions
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2011, 05:43:59 PM »
Highly recommend the Droid Incredible 2/Incredible S... great phone.

Raptor

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Re: .300 Whisper/.300 Blackout questions
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2011, 05:51:10 PM »
Awesome! It's bad enough I still have a dumb phone I don't wanna be the guy that chose the Whisper over the BLK.

But that's next year anyway. I'm getting a smartphone either next month or August. Do you have any idea how embarrassing it is to reply to a text on this stupid Motorola RZR when there's people around?


Gah! I feel like I should be driving an Edsel!

Don't worry about it, HVS. I have an old flip-phone (don't know the exact model) that is even "dumber" than your RZR. And don't knock the Edsel: it was a great car mechanically, just considered by many (myself, perhaps strangely, not included) to be hideously ugly.

Okay, On-Topic here. The .300 BLK is definitely an interesting cartridge, and I think it's developing into the mainstream and out of the "nifty esoteric niche cartridge" status I expected it to be stuck in. Now that I'm finally earning a paycheck, I think when I order a 5.56mm Dissipator-style AR-15 from Crusader Weaponry, I think I'm going to have them build me a matching upper in .300 BLK as well.
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Outbreak

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Re: .300 Whisper/.300 Blackout questions
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2011, 07:26:10 PM »
The 300BLK looks cool as hell. I'm just waiting for my barrel to get here and I'll have one.

That said, if you're going to get into the cartridge, plan on A) reloading for it; B) suppressing it; and C) short barreling it.

You can get factory ammo, but right now it's scarce and expensive. BUT it uses regular .308" bullets, which are plentiful, and you can convert .223/5.56 brass to .300BLK.

Since it's so easy to load subsonic, not suppressing it would be a waste of it's capabilities, imho. Same goes for 300 Whisper. Short barreling goes hand-in-hand with subsonic loading. Longer barrels will produce higher muzzle velocities. Loading it down enough to get subsonic out of a long barrel might not produce enough gas pressure to cycle the action.
TexasOutbreak

I take my coffee black...like my rifles.

I absolutely despise Glocks. That's why I only own two.

I'm glad that your chains rest lightly upon you. --JesseL

HiVelSword

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Re: .300 Whisper/.300 Blackout questions
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2011, 07:42:19 PM »
The 300BLK looks cool as hell. I'm just waiting for my barrel to get here and I'll have one.

That said, if you're going to get into the cartridge, plan on A) reloading for it; B) suppressing it; and C) short barreling it.



Yeah, like in my OP I'm going with a 9" threaded barrel. SBR + can is the only way to go IMO. And by the time I have all the paperwork done and upper in hand I'm sure there will be a couple more manufacturers loading for it. I'll have a reloader by then as well.
To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

"You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen

rsilvers

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Re: .300 Whisper/.300 Blackout questions
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2011, 08:49:18 AM »
I am project lead on this at AAC, and am the one who brought this concept to Remington. Remington could not have loaded non-SAAMI ammo, so loading 300 Whisper(R) would not have been possible. SAAMi does not accept proprietary cartridges - which is why the 6.5 Grendal was not accepted even though Hornady submitted it last year.

Here is an FAQ:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=73274&p=699521&hilit=faq#p699521

Because 300 AAC BLACKOUT has a longer throat, it can be loaded hotter. You can shoot Hornady 300 Whisper ammo in a 300 AAC BLACKOUT chamber, but one should not shoot 300 AAC BLACKOUT in a 300 Whisper chamber as that would be like shooting 5.56mm in a 223 chamber.

SAAMi accepted 300 BLK on January 17th, 2001, and it is correct to say it is like 22-250, and the others are like 22 Varminter - which is what 22-250 was before SAAMI voted on the final dimensions and settled on an official name.

JesseL

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Re: .300 Whisper/.300 Blackout questions
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2011, 11:33:41 AM »
Welcome to We The Armed Mr. Silvers, and thank you for weighing in.
Arizona

HiVelSword

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Re: .300 Whisper/.300 Blackout questions
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2011, 11:48:33 AM »
Welcome to We The Armed Mr. Silvers, and thank you for weighing in.

I second that. Yup, .300 BLK w/can and a 6.5 Grendel are both on my short list. Hell, as of this time next year I plan on having 5 dedicated AR's.

My .44 AMP, 6.5 G, .300 BLK, .260 R and another I'm not saying anything about til it's actually a reality.
To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

"You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen


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HiVelSword

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Re: .300 Whisper/.300 Blackout questions
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2011, 06:05:20 PM »
don't knock the Edsel: it was a great car mechanically, just considered by many (myself, perhaps strangely, not included) to be hideously ugly.

I wasn't bashing the car so much as just making a correlation on how old I feel when I text on my dumphone.

As much as I hate AT&T I wil probably go with T-Mobile and the Samsung Galaxy S. The $50 per month for talk, text and web is only $6 more than what I pay just for talk and text. And no one out of the big three can touch that price per month.

On topic, now that our new member verified that you can shoot Whisper out of a .300 BLK, why would anyone want a barrel in .300 Whisper? Man, I don't look forward to getting a year older but in this case, I hope time flies!
To all those killed by a 9mm, "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!" -HVS

"You see, Doctor, God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." Rorschach-Watchmen


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