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Author Topic: 9mm Powder Recommendations  (Read 18701 times)

Outbreak

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9mm Powder Recommendations
« on: April 08, 2011, 12:43:18 AM »
Norseman and I have been talking powder over PM, but we figured it could benefit and be benefited by others.

I just got my Dillon, and because I already had components for .40S&W, that's what I've been loading. This has reinforced my dislike for flake powder like 231. That's what I had before, but a lot of guys I shoot with recommend Clays, so I'm gonna switch to that for .40.

I need powder recommedations for 9mm, which is what I'm going to load next.

Requirements are cost first (I want cheap) and I need to make 1100FPS with a 115gr bullet. It's an IPSC Power Factor requirement.

Of the two guys I know who load 9mm, one is running super high pressure compressed loads through a compensated 2011. I don't want his load data. The other guy is running an out of the box Glock, and uses Bullseye. Norse recommended against Bullseye, saying it was too easy to double charge. Bullseye isn't out of the running, but I'm taking that into consideration.

What do you guys use for high-volume low-cost 9mm reloading?
TexasOutbreak

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JesseL

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Re: 9mm Powder Recommendations
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2011, 01:05:15 AM »
Any powder that's going to be really economical is probably also going to be easy to double charge.

I don't load much 9mm, but when I do I use Titegroup and watch the charges really close. There's a whopping 0.3 grains between the book's starting and max loads, and a double charge would fit inside a case pretty easy.

If you're willing to give up some economy (and considering that we're not talking about more than 8.5 grains of powder it going to be cheap no matter what), the data for Bluedot and HS6 looks pretty appealing. Velocities over 1200 fps and big enough charges that it would be hard to double without noticing.

Arizona

dstocum

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Re: 9mm Powder Recommendations
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2011, 04:05:44 AM »
Take a look at WSF. I don't load 115gr 9mm but according to Hodgdon, you'll easily make your 1100 fps. The max powder charge (5.7gr max) is large enough that you shouldn't be able to double charge it; I don't think you can get 11.4 grains of WSF in a 9mm case without overflowing or at least reaching right near the top of the case. I'd test it for you but my reloading bench is not assembled at the moment.

WSF meters well and burns quite a lot cleaner than the Universal I was using before. I recommend WSF for 40 S&W as well, actually, if you're not set on Clays. I originally chose it because it easily makes major in 40, and I'd just bought my limited gun.
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only1asterisk

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Re: 9mm Powder Recommendations
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2011, 05:27:18 AM »
Winchester 231 is actually a ball powder, beleive it or not.  Most ball powders will be dense enough to double charge
Accurate #2 might do what you want.
American Select is a good powder for what you want.  It is a flake powder, but typically does very well in the Dillion powder measure.


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Re: 9mm Powder Recommendations
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2011, 11:13:28 PM »
Any powder that's going to be really economical is probably also going to be easy to double charge.

At work today I caclulated how many rounds you have to shoot in a year to save $100 on powder loading 2 grains less each shot.
35,000 rounds.  That about 100 a day with a 2 week vacation.  

To me $100 is pretty cheap insurance.


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Re: 9mm Powder Recommendations
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2011, 12:08:32 AM »
May I add something here? 

I'm used to picking powders that are nearly impossible to double charge due to case volume/powder density constraints.  A fail safe of sorts if you will. 


Also, given the Dillon progressive powder measure characteristics, I like modified flake or larger ball powders, as true extruded or straight up flat flake powders seem to meter a bit inconsistent, especially at low charge volumes where .2 grains is a BIG deal.  Vihtavuori powders are out in this particular case due to cost considerations(otherwise, 3N37 and don't look back), so that leaves us with everything between Bullseye on the fast end to AA#7 and Blue Dot on the slow end.  AA5 or 7 should work(IMO) and meter ok in the Dillon(leaning towards AA5 for economic reasons) for 9mm, but I'll freely admit to  a lack of heavy exposure to the caliber here, and hope more experienced members can give further insight.
 
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dstocum

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Re: 9mm Powder Recommendations
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2011, 01:42:03 AM »
Well another advantage to having a higher volume powder charge is you generally get more consistent ignition when there's less airspace.

If W231 isn't metering properly, static may be an issue, since W231 has a reputation for excellent metering. Wiping the whole powder system down with an antistatic wipe or dryer sheet or whatever might solve the problem.

Maybe I'm wrong, but doesn't the 650 have auto index? If so, why is double charging a concern at all? (asks the guy with just a single stage press and zero experience with progressives)
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Jim147

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Re: 9mm Powder Recommendations
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2011, 02:03:20 AM »
I've just started working with Longshot. It might be a good one to try.

The few guys I know loading mass, high speed 9 are using healthy doses of Tightgroup. I don't like to push the fast powders that close to the edge.

jim

Outbreak

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Re: 9mm Powder Recommendations
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2011, 02:51:29 AM »
If W231 isn't metering properly, static may be an issue, since W231 has a reputation for excellent metering. Wiping the whole powder system down with an antistatic wipe or dryer sheet or whatever might solve the problem.

Hmm... Static, eh? I have noticed that the powder is sticking to the side of the powder measure tube.

The problem isn't the metering. It meters fine. It just gets all over the place. That's the only complaint. I don't know if it's normal, but I have powder all over my shell holder. If it's normal, I'll just buy a bunch of 231, because it works and meters well.
TexasOutbreak

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Re: 9mm Powder Recommendations
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2011, 03:36:21 AM »
If powder is getting all over, I wouldn't call that normal, but I also wouldn't say a particular powder is causing the problem--especially not a modified ball powder. Sounds like you're either having static issues (some powder is dropping late when something jolts it free) or the powder is dropping erratically (drop tube too high, or something causing the powder to scatter as it leaves, like a burr at the tube opening). Did you set up the powder drop or did it come pre-set?

If the powder is sticking to the sides of the hopper, you have at least some static present. Now, I've never actually tried the dryer sheet thing since my powder throw technique seems to knock free any clinging powder just fine, but a lot of people do it and report their static issues have gone away. It's worth a shot, anyway.
Alaska

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Re: 9mm Powder Recommendations
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2011, 03:47:41 AM »
The powder scatters when the shellplate indexes. Some jumps between powder charging and powder check, and some scatters between powder check and bullet placement. No matter how slow I roll the handle, it still clicks and some powder jumps out. At this point, it seems like there's no avoiding it.
TexasOutbreak

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dstocum

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Re: 9mm Powder Recommendations
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2011, 04:12:43 AM »
Definitely sounds like static then. The minute vibrations as the machine operates could certainly be enough to knock any clinging powder free. That's why I use a good thunk at each end of my throw stroke, to knock any clinging powder loose and resettle the powder in the hopper.

I wish I had the machine in front of me to give good advice, but if the drop tube is still over the case at the very bottom of your lever throw (I can't imagine why it wouldn't be...), it might work to just let the lever run into the stop smartly to give the machine a bit of a jolt, similar to the way I throw powder with my Uniflow. If the shellplate indexing will knock powder free, a bit of a jolt from the lever hitting its stops sure will.

Alternately you could regularly use antistatic stuff on it, or lasso some kid into giving your bench a whack with a rubber mallet before you let the lever back up each time.  :shrug
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Re: 9mm Powder Recommendations
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2011, 09:43:34 AM »
I have been looking into powders for my 10mm, but also considering 40... and well, now that we have the Sterlings potentially 9mm.
What I liked is that Power Pistol looks like it should cover all bases.
Just wondering if you have looked into it.


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Outbreak

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Re: 9mm Powder Recommendations
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2011, 04:50:00 PM »
Alternately you could regularly use antistatic stuff on it, or lasso some kid into giving your bench a whack with a rubber mallet before you let the lever back up each time.  :shrug

Couldn't I just ground the machine?
TexasOutbreak

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dstocum

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Re: 9mm Powder Recommendations
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2011, 05:25:05 PM »
Couldn't I just ground the machine?

It's worth a shot as long as it's a true ground. I'd definitely try it on my powder measure if I had the problem.
Alaska

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Re: 9mm Powder Recommendations
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2011, 07:21:40 PM »
The powder scatters when the shellplate indexes. Some jumps between powder charging and powder check, and some scatters between powder check and bullet placement. No matter how slow I roll the handle, it still clicks and some powder jumps out. At this point, it seems like there's no avoiding it.

The powder measure is going to leak a bit.  How much are we talking?

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Re: 9mm Powder Recommendations
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2011, 08:59:48 PM »
Not piles. Maybe 2-3 grains (weight, not pieces) spread evenly over the shell holder.
TexasOutbreak

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only1asterisk

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Re: 9mm Powder Recommendations
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2011, 09:15:02 PM »
Not piles. Maybe 2-3 grains (weight, not pieces) spread evenly over the shell holder.

Eventually, or every time you pull the handle!?! 

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Re: 9mm Powder Recommendations
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2011, 09:24:32 PM »
Accumulated over a couple hundred rounds.

But I watch the powder jump in the case, a couple flakes escaping every time the plate indexes.
TexasOutbreak

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only1asterisk

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Re: 9mm Powder Recommendations
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2011, 09:30:08 PM »
Accumulated over a couple hundred rounds.

But I watch the powder jump in the case, a couple flakes escaping every time the plate indexes.


That's not too uncommon.  There are some tips to smooth things up here:

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=154783

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Re: 9mm Powder Recommendations
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2011, 10:40:11 PM »
Quote
The powder scatters when the shellplate indexes. Some jumps between powder charging and powder check, and some scatters between powder check and bullet placement. No matter how slow I roll the handle, it still clicks and some powder jumps out.

Try loosening or tightening the shell holder retaining bolt(big black one in the middle of the shellplate) just a touch while running the press empty and watching.  A change in tension on the bottom of the shellplate may allow it to advance a little less violently during the press stroke.  But the amounts of powder getting loose you are describing sound fairly normal to me.  Also, keep in mind this is a brand new press, with all the springs at full pressure, and every friction point fresh and sharp.  After about 10,000 rounds or so, I suspect you'll find it runs much smoother.
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Re: 9mm Powder Recommendations
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2011, 04:10:46 PM »
I'll be another vote for checking out Power Pistol. It's always one I try out for a new bullet/load combo - it's really great in 9mm, too.
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Re: 9mm Powder Recommendations
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2011, 12:50:09 PM »
I'm a sucker for Unique for all my pistol loading, but I also load on a single stage, and I don't load 9mm, so I have no clue what kind of velocity you could get and my manuals are packed up right now.

For the 10mm/40 question, Blue Dot is where it's at if you're wanting to make some dramatic speed.
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Re: 9mm Powder Recommendations
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2011, 02:12:44 PM »
Unique will work well on all 9mm, 375/40, 45ACP and 38/357. At max loads, you can expect about 1000 rounds or more per pound. I use unique because this reduces the different types of powder. I don't use a progressive loader however, have not had any problems with any loads using it. JMHO.

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Re: 9mm Powder Recommendations
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2011, 09:31:45 PM »
Unique has a good burn rate that's useful for all kinds of loads (which is why it's still around eons later) but tends to "bridge" in powder hoppers - bad Ju-Ju for a progressive press. Power Pistol has a similar (but different) burn rate, but has a smaller grain that works well in volumetric measures. The non-canister version was developed as the powder for 9mm NATO ball loads, so it seems like a natural choice. http://www.alliantpowder.com/products/powder/power_pistol.aspx
(NOTE -Not a paid spokesman - just a fan of it. I do like it in 9mm and .45 ACP. :clap)
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