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Author Topic: WTA's Alcohol Thread  (Read 148043 times)

MTK20

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Re: WTA's Alcohol Thread
« Reply #950 on: May 08, 2017, 11:14:35 PM »
Not sure how to open a thread poll here.

By your taste: Bulleit bourbon (the standard, non-10 year old bourbon) vs Knob Creek small batch 9 year old? Which is better?
Texas
Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

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    coelacanth

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    Re: WTA's Alcohol Thread
    « Reply #951 on: May 09, 2017, 12:02:05 AM »
    Just as a stand alone comparison regardless of other considerations besides taste, I would choose the Knob Creek.  It has a good, full bodied character and a slightly higher proof - both gentled by the additional aging.  It is unmistakably a Beam product but to those of us who have been drinking Beam bourbon for many years that is no impediment. 

    As to the question, "Which is better?" I would ask you to define "better".    :coffee    Assemble a panel of experienced bourbon connoiseurs and give them both spirits in a blind taste test and I think most would arrive at the same conclusion I have.  That said, Bulleit is a pretty good glass of bourbon in its own right and can usually be had for less money than the Knob Creek.  Neither is so expensive that it is beyond the means of people determined to arrive at their own conclusion.

    Generally speaking, I prefer higher proof bourbon regardless of its age.  I think 86 proof is about right for many recipes but some are better at 100 proof or even higher.  The highest I have personally enjoyed was a bottle of George T. Stagg bottled at 141 proof for that particular batch.  It was, and is, a barrel strength unfiltered spirit that has usually spent up to 15 years in the wood.  Awesome stuff but not for the faint of heart at the cash register. 

    Asking who makes the "best" bourbon is like asking who has the prettiest girl friend or who has the best hunting dog or who the best NASCAR driver is - its a good way to start an argument but if you just wanted information you should have probably gone to the library.   :cool

    Arizona"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot."
                          Robert A. Heinlein ,   Friday

    booksmart

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    Re: WTA's Alcohol Thread
    « Reply #952 on: May 09, 2017, 09:13:19 AM »
    Yeah, talk about tossing a golden apple into the room... "For the fairest," indeed...

    MTK20

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    Re: WTA's Alcohol Thread
    « Reply #953 on: May 09, 2017, 11:19:38 AM »
    Just as a stand alone comparison regardless of other considerations besides taste, I would choose the Knob Creek.  It has a good, full bodied character and a slightly higher proof - both gentled by the additional aging.  It is unmistakably a Beam product but to those of us who have been drinking Beam bourbon for many years that is no impediment. 

    As to the question, "Which is better?" I would ask you to define "better".    :coffee    Assemble a panel of experienced bourbon connoiseurs and give them both spirits in a blind taste test and I think most would arrive at the same conclusion I have.  That said, Bulleit is a pretty good glass of bourbon in its own right and can usually be had for less money than the Knob Creek.  Neither is so expensive that it is beyond the means of people determined to arrive at their own conclusion.

    Generally speaking, I prefer higher proof bourbon regardless of its age.  I think 86 proof is about right for many recipes but some are better at 100 proof or even higher.  The highest I have personally enjoyed was a bottle of George T. Stagg bottled at 141 proof for that particular batch.  It was, and is, a barrel strength unfiltered spirit that has usually spent up to 15 years in the wood.  Awesome stuff but not for the faint of heart at the cash register. 

    Asking who makes the "best" bourbon is like asking who has the prettiest girl friend or who has the best hunting dog or who the best NASCAR driver is - its a good way to start an argument but if you just wanted information you should have probably gone to the library.   :cool

    Please clarify what you mean by it is unmistakably a Jim Beam product? I don't see why that would impede anyone from consuming a good product, after all, it is merely a brand.

    I tried some bulleit years ago and I have a freshly unopened bottle in my kitchen right now and a half finished bottle of knob creek. I'm trying to be a responsible adult and finish one bottle of hard liquor before I move onto opening the next  :neener.

    I like Talisker and Laprohaig and I believe that I enjoyed bulleit when I had it. So far though, in my few years pursuing fine spirits, I have developed a particular fondness of knob creek 9 yr and Speyburn 10.

    I have also tried buffalo trace and sadly, I didn't care for that one so much.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    coelacanth

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    Re: WTA's Alcohol Thread
    « Reply #954 on: May 09, 2017, 05:29:05 PM »
    Well, in that case, it appears you like the Beam family recipes.  Saying bourbon is like saying cake.  There are as many recipes as you'd care to look up.  There are certain guidelines that have to be followed if the spirit in question is to be labeled "Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey" or even "Bottled in Bond".   Every distillery has recipes they use and the real trick is to get consistency from year to year or even decade to decade.  If you taste various bourbons from different distilleries that are all approximately the same proof and the same age - say three or four year old 80 proof - you will notice distinct differences between them.  That is due to the difference in recipes and blending techniques. 

    When I referred to Knob Creek as being an unmistakably Beam produced bourbon I was simply referring to the Beam style of bourbon.  I like it as well and it is certainly no impediment to enjoying the stuff.  If I left you with that impression I apologize. 

    I was more fond of the Knob Creek bourbon when it first appeared on the market.  It seems to have undergone a slight recipe change or something and the price has gone up significantly.  I suppose my taste could have changed to some degree but I have been drinking bourbon for the better part of the last fifty years and I can say with some certainty that at this point I tend to notice even fairly small details in a glass of it.  These days it seems I can usually can find a bourbon I like as well or nearly as well as Knob Creek for less money.   


    Arizona"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot."
                          Robert A. Heinlein ,   Friday

    MTK20

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    Re: WTA's Alcohol Thread
    « Reply #955 on: May 09, 2017, 06:21:31 PM »
    You didn't so much give me the impression that you didn't like beam products as you did that others have felt beam products leave something to be desired. It just perplexed me, as at this point I'd probably pick a beam product over Jack Daniel's. As long as we are talking about mass produced, big brand whiskeys  :cool.

    ETA: would you mind listing off some of the whiskeys you feel are a good competitor to knob creek? For science purposes  ;).
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    coelacanth

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    Re: WTA's Alcohol Thread
    « Reply #956 on: May 09, 2017, 06:34:01 PM »
    Most bourbon drinkers with at least a nodding familiarity with the spirit have come to recognize the Beam style.  Most people seem to like it because last I heard Jim Beam distills and bottles more of the stuff than any other bourbon distiller.   And for the record, Jack Daniels is not technically a bourbon.  It is a Tennessee Sour Mash whiskey.  That said, the difference is probably about like the difference between 100% Vermont maple syrup and 100% Canadian maple syrup produced 5 miles further north.  They are functionally the same thing just tangled up in marketing intricacies. 

    I referred earlier to the recipes for bourbon but within the distilling industry it is actually called a "mash bill".   Do a web search for that term or go to the site below.  He has a theory that there are only three "recipes" involved no matter what kind of bourbon you are drinking.  I think he's right about that.  Knowledge is power - go forth and learn.   :cool

    Perhaps this will help :  www.whiskeyprof.com

    In the interest of furthering scientific inquiry:   W.L. Weller 12 year old        Willet Pot Still Reserve       Jim Beam Double Oak      Four Roses Single Barrel       Evan Williams Single Barrel       Eagle Rare 10 year old       :  these ought to be pretty available middle of the road bourbons that are close to Knob Creek in price and quality. 

    If you want a decent glass of bourbon that won't cost you the equivalent of a tank of gas try these:   Evan Williams ( Black Label is 86 proof and the White Label is 100 proof )  Old Weller Antique - Original 107 Brand   
    « Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 07:02:51 PM by coelacanth »
    Arizona"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot."
                          Robert A. Heinlein ,   Friday

    Roper1911

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    Re: WTA's Alcohol Thread
    « Reply #957 on: May 09, 2017, 10:18:23 PM »
    Not sure how to open a thread poll here.

    By your taste: Bulleit bourbon (the standard, non-10 year old bourbon) vs Knob Creek small batch 9 year old? Which is better?
    Bulleit is more rye-y. kinda a sweet, peppery taste. it's 68% corn, 28% rye, 4% malt.
    Knob Creek is pretty much all corn. 73% of it. with 13% rye, and 10% barley. it's going to be a bit sharper tasting, more apple/apricot and fruit flavors. much less pepper.
    North Carolina"it has two fire modes, safe, and most decidedly unsafe"
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    MTK20

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    Re: WTA's Alcohol Thread
    « Reply #958 on: May 09, 2017, 10:31:58 PM »
    Most bourbon drinkers with at least a nodding familiarity with the spirit have come to recognize the Beam style.  Most people seem to like it because last I heard Jim Beam distills and bottles more of the stuff than any other bourbon distiller.   And for the record, Jack Daniels is not technically a bourbon.  It is a Tennessee Sour Mash whiskey.  That said, the difference is probably about like the difference between 100% Vermont maple syrup and 100% Canadian maple syrup produced 5 miles further north.  They are functionally the same thing just tangled up in marketing intricacies. 

    I referred earlier to the recipes for bourbon but within the distilling industry it is actually called a "mash bill".   Do a web search for that term or go to the site below.  He has a theory that there are only three "recipes" involved no matter what kind of bourbon you are drinking.  I think he's right about that.  Knowledge is power - go forth and learn.   :cool

    Perhaps this will help :  www.whiskeyprof.com

    In the interest of furthering scientific inquiry:   W.L. Weller 12 year old        Willet Pot Still Reserve       Jim Beam Double Oak      Four Roses Single Barrel       Evan Williams Single Barrel       Eagle Rare 10 year old       :  these ought to be pretty available middle of the road bourbons that are close to Knob Creek in price and quality. 

    If you want a decent glass of bourbon that won't cost you the equivalent of a tank of gas try these:   Evan Williams ( Black Label is 86 proof and the White Label is 100 proof )  Old Weller Antique - Original 107 Brand

    Thanks coelacanth! I can always count on you to do a good job of corrupting me  ;).

    Bulleit is more rye-y. kinda a sweet, peppery taste. it's 68% corn, 28% rye, 4% malt.
    Knob Creek is pretty much all corn. 73% of it. with 13% rye, and 10% barley. it's going to be a bit sharper tasting, more apple/apricot and fruit flavors. much less pepper.

    It seems I'm stuck in the middle then. For instance, I have noticed the more fruit flavours in knob creek compared to other American whiskey, and that really appeals to me. You can definitely taste it in my other favourite, speyburn 10, although that scotch takes the citrus fruits and hits you upside the head with them.

    The other scotch mentioned, Talisker, while I enjoy the smokiness of it, I really enjoy the pepperiness of it. It seems that one cannot have fruity and peppery in the same whisky. Interesting.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    Roper1911

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    Re: WTA's Alcohol Thread
    « Reply #959 on: May 09, 2017, 10:38:58 PM »
    from what I gather, malt is kinda fruity, Rye is kinda peppery.
    both are more of a light finish, so they'd be hard to balance together.
    North Carolina"it has two fire modes, safe, and most decidedly unsafe"
    ~Chief Warrant Leon McMurdo. Shilo Mountain Rangers, sixth battalion. Mount Hector School of Military tactics. November 8th 3451.

    Yes. When the question is 1911, the answer is "yes". ~HVS

    Langenator

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    Re: WTA's Alcohol Thread
    « Reply #960 on: May 09, 2017, 10:43:35 PM »
    Since we're on bourbon, l'll just throw this out there: Leadslinger's Bourbon Whiskey (they also make rye whiskey, rum, and cinnamon whiskey).

    I'm far from a whiskey conisseur, but I think it's great, and even the Mrs thinks it smells terrific.
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