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Author Topic: Exploding arrow  (Read 21761 times)

Thernlund

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Exploding arrow
« on: June 26, 2010, 02:22:28 PM »
The question came up over beers last night... how might one go about building a home-made exploding arrowhead?

I was thinking some kind of simple stubbie firing pin over a standard primer which would ignite some sort of pocket of power.  Encase this is some sort of standard arrowhead so it still has some cutting power in case it doesn't go off.

Comments?

(It is understood that such a thing may be subject to NFA rules, so we're not talking about anything totally illegal here.)


-T.
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Bo Smith

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Re: Exploding arrow
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2010, 02:52:41 PM »
Like Rambo's, or Bo and Luke Duke's?
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Thernlund

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Re: Exploding arrow
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2010, 08:33:44 PM »
Didn't the Duke boy's arrows require being lit before sending?

Not what I mean.  I want detonation on impact.


-T.
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Harm

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Re: Exploding arrow
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2010, 09:33:00 PM »
Just pulling something out of my backside...  Is there something like Tannerite which is more sensitive?  Something which could be explodey upon arrow impact, so a pressure sensitive powder?  Maybe include something like a striker from the arrow tip that when the arrow hits, it would rocket back to impact the arrow primer to detonate the charge?  It might require some sort of electrical charge in motion to cause detonation? 

IDK it sounds freakin sci-fi to me.  And I'm actually LOVING the idea of it right now!  Beer causes the best "hey that sounds GREAT!"  ideas.  heh.
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Re: Exploding arrow
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2010, 09:52:23 PM »
What about the material in a match head? Could that piggyback another compound, which could detonate your PETN?
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Thernlund

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Re: Exploding arrow
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2010, 11:38:27 PM »
Just pulling something out of my backside...  Is there something like Tannerite which is more sensitive?  Something which could be explodey upon arrow impact, so a pressure sensitive powder?  Maybe include something like a striker from the arrow tip that when the arrow hits, it would rocket back to impact the arrow primer to detonate the charge?  It might require some sort of electrical charge in motion to cause detonation?

My original thought was along these line... kind of. 

A firing pin in the arrow tip, a standard primer under it, a pocket of power after that.  When the arrow strikes a hard surface the pin sets off the primer which in turn detonates the power.

I'd have to use black power I think as it's explosive.


-T.
Arizona  Arm yourself because no one else here will save you.  The odds will betray you, and I will replace you...

jaeger

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Re: Exploding arrow
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2010, 10:54:52 PM »
My original thought was along these line... kind of. 

A firing pin in the arrow tip, a standard primer under it, a pocket of power after that.  When the arrow strikes a hard surface the pin sets off the primer which in turn detonates the power.

I'd have to use black power I think as it's explosive.

-T.

Good way to end up with an unwanted nickname, ie Nine-fingers, One-thumb, or the defendant. Yeah, that could work as stated, but my skin crawls just thinking how twitchy that sort of thing would be. Making a splodey-arrow is probably pretty easy, making a safe splodey-arrow seems complicated. Ideally, you wouldn't want it to arm until you'd fired it, but the only ways I know of doing that either don't scale down well or would be expensive ($25-$30 per arrow).


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AR lover

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Re: Exploding arrow
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2010, 11:03:33 PM »
My brother and I experiented with exploding arrows a few years back...  Used IMR powder and magnum primers, modified practice tips to become "firing pins", etc.   Carbon arrows.  Two problems we encountered...One was the very "explosion" itself. Gunpowder won't EXPLODE unless it is allowed to build pressure...and the arrows are simply not that strong. The primer usually blew it up and the powder just burned...  So you'd need some way to build pressure within the arrow.  Two was the endcap, it liked falling off...a lot.
Oh, and in case it wasn't clear, the powder was within the body of the arrow. But the same theory can be used to make a large tip that holds the powder.

As to "arming" it, we simply dented the inside part where the head normally screws in, it held the head in (the threads were ground off and made into a point for the firing pin) and held it away from the primer until impact.

Just what I know of this. :)

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Re: Exploding arrow
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2010, 11:03:59 PM »
Was nobody here ever a kid dumb enough to tape a BB over the primer of a 12 gauge shell and then tape the shell to a long stick and throw the whole thing in the air?
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Re: Exploding arrow
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2010, 02:06:22 AM »
Was nobody here ever a kid dumb enough to tape a BB over the primer of a 12 gauge shell and then tape the shell to a long stick and throw the whole thing in the air?

Some kid which shall remain nameless put his in paper tubes with fins.  Made them land nose down when dropped/thrown.  Made nosecones out of corks, rubber stoppers, rubber spring bumpers out of the junkyard-whatever he could find.  Used a roofing nail as a firing pin sometimes with a bottle cap to make the tip bigger.  Dropping them from a concrete bridge onto the rocks below was great sport as was tossing them from grain silos, over the side of a quarry, off abandoned factory roofs etc.
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Re: Exploding arrow
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2010, 10:14:11 AM »
If you fill a spent shotgun shell with black powder, tamp it down slightly (VERY CAREFULLY) and tape it up well, a cannon fuse through the primer pocket will make it go 'splodey very nicely.  Put a primer in there where it belongs and fire it with a striker/firing pin.  I'd put a safety pin in the firing pin channel if it were me.  And probably a light spring to bias the pin AWAY from the primer so it won't possibly go off from inertial forces. 

The more interesting way to do it would be a striker fired (fulminate, maybe) initiator setting off a secondary charge of "real" explosive, maybe cheddite or something similar.  No I am not going into details about how to make that, it's a good way to loose body parts and get the attention of the guys in black helos. 

Fun thought:  centerfire primers are VERY energetic, and I bet you could get a whole stack of them to go off at once if you packed them in an arrow.  Be very very careful, I heard an old story once about a guy walking through an arms plant casually bouncing a bucket of loose primers, and then he just wasn't...there...anymore.  I believe it.
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jaeger

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Re: Exploding arrow
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2010, 07:20:35 PM »
Was nobody here ever a kid dumb enough to tape a BB over the primer of a 12 gauge shell and then tape the shell to a long stick and throw the whole thing in the air?

Never did that one, but I consider myself incredibly lucky to have made it to adulthood without maiming myself or ending up on some watch list.

Thernlund

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Re: Exploding arrow
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2010, 07:25:43 PM »
Yeah, that could work as stated, but my skin crawls just thinking how twitchy that sort of thing would be.

I'm not sure it would be as much of a problem as you think.  The firing pin in an AR is free-floating, and that bolt slams home pretty hard.  Slamfires aren't unheard of, but aren't exactly common either.

I'd agree that you wouldn't want to arm said arrow before firing (maybe some sort of pull-pin arrangement), but short of dropping it in its tip, I don't think it'd be much of an issue.


-T.
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jaeger

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Re: Exploding arrow
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2010, 09:45:59 PM »
I'm not sure it would be as much of a problem as you think.  The firing pin in an AR is free-floating, and that bolt slams home pretty hard.  Slamfires aren't unheard of, but aren't exactly common either.

I'd agree that you wouldn't want to arm said arrow before firing (maybe some sort of pull-pin arrangement), but short of dropping it in its tip, I don't think it'd be much of an issue.

-T.

I can think of a couple ways that might work. They might even be safe. The only definitely safe method I can think of involves accelerometers and electrical ignition of the warhead. I've never played around with electrical ignition of black powder, so I don't know how much capacitor that sort of assemble would require.

Thanks a bunch. Now you have me thinking about something I'd be interested in building.


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Cookie

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Re: Exploding arrow
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2010, 10:24:14 PM »
Maybe have the impact depress the piezo ignition system from a grill lighter?  That would be just about intertia-proof.
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JesseL

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Re: Exploding arrow
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2010, 10:33:42 PM »
I can think of a couple ways that might work. They might even be safe. The only definitely safe method I can think of involves accelerometers and electrical ignition of the warhead. I've never played around with electrical ignition of black powder, so I don't know how much capacitor that sort of assemble would require.

Thanks a bunch. Now you have me thinking about something I'd be interested in building.

An accelerometer doesn't need to be particularly fancy for this application. A sliding weight on a shaft with springs to center it and microswitches at the fore and aft ends would be sufficient. Let it be armed when the aft switch is hit during the acceleration of release from the bow, and fire the detonator when it impacts and closes the forward switch. The whole thing could be very small and cheap, the electronics wouldn't be much more than a flip-flop.
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jaeger

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Re: Exploding arrow
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2010, 11:07:45 PM »
An accelerometer doesn't need to be particularly fancy for this application. A sliding weight on a shaft with springs to center it and microswitches at the fore and aft ends would be sufficient. Let it be armed when the aft switch is hit during the acceleration of release from the bow, and fire the detonator when it impacts and closes the forward switch. The whole thing could be very small and cheap, the electronics wouldn't be much more than a flip-flop.

But with a proper accelerometer on a chip and a PIC, you could have the system stay safe occurs along a known axis (doesn't need to be the exact acceleration of the arrow as long as its an acceleration that can't happen accidentally, perhaps with an external switch to render the warhead inactive) and then program the detonation deceleration threshold to be as soft or hard as you desire. A splodey arrow that could be programmed to defeat mild concealment.

Ya know, I don't own any archery gear, but this kind of device tempts me to build another trebuchet; a 21st century warhead out of a 2400 year old siege engine has a beautiful touch of the mildly insane to it.

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Re: Exploding arrow
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2010, 02:05:22 AM »
Was nobody here ever a kid dumb enough to tape a BB over the primer of a 12 gauge shell and then tape the shell to a long stick and throw the whole thing in the air?

I put it on the end of a rocket and shot it through a length of PVC like a LAW rocket.
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bowlan

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Re: Exploding arrow
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2011, 10:34:43 AM »
The question came up over beers last night... how might one go about building a home-made exploding arrowhead?

I was thinking some kind of simple stubbie firing pin over a standard primer which would ignite some sort of pocket of power.  Encase this is some sort of standard arrowhead so it still has some cutting power in case it doesn't go off.

Comments?

(It is understood that such a thing may be subject to NFA rules, so we're not talking about anything totally illegal here.)


-T.
we actualy produce the tip firing assembly requred to make the exploding arrows.
if you need to order them email me at bow77666@yahoo.com
we only sell the slip sleave with 209 orimers installed,you would load youw own protellent

HMPlatinum

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Re: Exploding arrow
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2011, 10:55:05 AM »
Perhaps a grenade style pin to keep any movement of pin or striker nullified.
Pull pin, shoot arrow, explody goodness.
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Re: Exploding arrow
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2011, 11:24:16 AM »

Atlas8193

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Re: Exploding arrow
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2011, 02:31:38 PM »
Am I the only one on this forum that played the "Turok" series of games as a kid? Does anyone else remember the tek-arrows? This whole thread is reminding me of that game series...
Although personally I am quite content with existing explosives, I feel we must not stand in the path of improvement.-Winston Churchill

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Re: Exploding arrow
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2011, 04:27:02 PM »
Am I the only one on this forum that played the "Turok" series of games as a kid? Does anyone else remember the tek-arrows? This whole thread is reminding me of that game series...


Turok?  I raise you one Clint.


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Re: Exploding arrow
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2012, 11:52:37 PM »
I have been thinking about safety of the exploding arrow.  Why not use a hard wax to keep the pin from prematurely igniting the arrow?  The wax would protect from the movement associated with walking around with them though a hard enough impact directly to the tip would condense or break the wax.  Sure one could argue that if one were to fall hard that the arrows could detonate though I think that would depend on how you construct your quiver.  It is not like these things would be used all the time so they could be fastened into the quiver so they would not fall out even if the thing goes upside down.  Also it is unlikely the quiver would be subject to direct impact to the bottom since it is either on your back or on your side.  I think there would be an issue if you have the arrows attached to your bow though that is not a good idea in the first place since these arrows would have a very odd weight distribution making you less accurate. 

As far as the explosive material goes, I have no knowledge on what to use.
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IMerrell

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Exploding arrow
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2012, 04:28:14 PM »
Several years ago my brother and I made an exploding arrow, at least attempted to, ended up as more of a missile. We took an arrow plugged it about 8 inches from the end, then filled it with black powder. Then we put a shotgun primer on the end with a BB on it, using hot glue to hold it all together and in place. To test it we shot it at a cement retaining wall at about 20 yards. Arrow flew true, hit the wall, detonation was as planned however the black powder rather than acting as an explosive functioned as a propellant (imagine that!) after detonation the arrow came back at the same angle it was initially launched. My brother shot the arrow and I was standing next to and slightly behind him. On it's return the arrow hit me, with the fletching end, square in the shoulder. Not much force, just left a red spot didn't even break skin but was sure an attention getter. We then scrapped that idea and moved on to other stupid dangerous devices.
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