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Author Topic: Blasphemy  (Read 3155 times)

schapm

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Blasphemy
« on: November 24, 2012, 11:53:03 AM »
Picked up a stainless and polymer Hawken style rifle today. T/C Greyhawk.

Indiana


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coelacanth

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2012, 03:26:58 PM »
Ack.    :confused
"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot." 

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2012, 08:30:08 PM »
Unkle Musket would probably approve.  :hmm
Virginia"The Middle East is obviously an issue that has plagued the region for centuries." --Our illustrious leader OBAMA. Tampa, Fla., Jan. 28, 2010

schapm

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Blasphemy
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2012, 08:58:41 PM »
Unkle Musket would probably approve.  :hmm

I thought of his comments on the Firestorm when I bought this.
Indiana

RMc

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2012, 12:36:50 PM »
Actually the GreyHawk remains quite popular for muzzleloader season along the Gulf Coast.  It is a stainless and polymer version of the New Englander. When the sights are swapped out for wide Patridge(square notch/square post) versions it is fast to get on target in thick cover and quick to reload with .50 or .54 Minie balls. The square sight picture also gives an excellent index of elevation for longer range shooting.

When plastic Cap Guards are used to seal the cap and nipple seat, the GreyHawk is virtually impervious to weather. Plastic Cap Guards are available commercially or can be cut from readily available fish tank tubing. The use of an Enfield style cap protector on an attached cord enables one to lower the hammer all the way down while rendering the rifle essentially drop safe yet ready for instant use.
Alabama

schapm

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Blasphemy
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2012, 04:01:54 PM »
Actually the GreyHawk remains quite popular for muzzleloader season along the Gulf Coast.  It is a stainless and polymer version of the New Englander. When the sights are swapped out for wide Patridge(square notch/square post) versions it is fast to get on target in thick cover and quick to reload with .50 or .54 Minie balls. The square sight picture also gives an excellent index of elevation for longer range shooting.

When plastic Cap Guards are used to seal the cap and nipple seat, the GreyHawk is virtually impervious to weather. Plastic Cap Guards are available commercially or can be cut from readily available fish tank tubing. The use of an Enfield style cap protector on an attached cord enables one to lower the hammer all the way down while rendering the rifle essentially drop safe yet ready for instant use.

Very interesting. I didn't know they existed until I saw mine for sale. Do you know if the NE and GH barrels are interchangeable?
Indiana

RMc

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2012, 11:21:37 PM »
Same specs except for metal used.  By the way - patridge (square notch, square blade) adjustable sights for the Renegade will fit any New Englander or GreyHawk for a truly superior sight picture.
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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2012, 11:29:42 PM »
Not a bad rifle for souless abomination...
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schapm

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Blasphemy
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2012, 12:07:15 PM »
Not a bad rifle for souless abomination...

It just doesn't have a soul *yet* but wait until muzzleloader season opens and I will try to get one for it...
Indiana

schapm

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Blasphemy
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2012, 09:02:07 AM »
Same specs except for metal used.  By the way - patridge (square notch, square blade) adjustable sights for the Renegade will fit any New Englander or GreyHawk for a truly superior sight picture.

Thanks again for the info. I may look at changing out my sights this summer. Right now I have ML season beginning on Dec. 8th, so I just want to get it to the range and get a load figured out if possible between now and then.
Indiana

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2012, 08:15:34 PM »
.....though Unkle Musket says that rifling is for dishonest men and ruffians.
Virginia"The Middle East is obviously an issue that has plagued the region for centuries." --Our illustrious leader OBAMA. Tampa, Fla., Jan. 28, 2010

schapm

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Blasphemy
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2012, 08:49:55 PM »
.....though Unkle Musket says that rifling is for dishonest men and ruffians.

That description fits me.
Indiana

coelacanth

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2012, 01:04:56 PM »
Yup.  Lots of us wearing that hat around here.   ;)     That said, I think anyone who takes issue with a good Pennsylvania squirrel rifle is too much of an elitist to be taken seriously. 
"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot." 

            Robert A. Heinlein , "Friday"

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2012, 09:05:24 AM »
Noisy, jabbering louts, the whole nest of you.

Poachers and assassins I said. Rifled Arms or more befitting of poachers and assassins, and this is true undoubtedly! Honest fighting is played through and finished quite handily without the jeering gimmick of twist bore double-handedness! Were the gallant boy-men of our impatient and self-loving era to take the time to learn the arts properly there would not be such an irksome din surrounding twist bores and their loathsome traits! A ball does NOT need to be spun to find proper placement! By the gods! Tell me now also that men kilt by crossbow are not dead? Heathens felled by the Land Service Musket have not true been dispatched to nestle forever in the blighted bosom of their dark gods?
Trained soldiers are well served by true-bore arms, as are right-minded hunters! A man who denies this has crossed too often the threshold of an opium den!
Ah, the Pennsylvania. So often dragged out and taken to be some form of proof pattern, unassailable due to its female aesthetic and mistold legend!
The bloody Pennsylvania...indeed...a fine arm...fine for collectors of futzy antiques who like to paw at items of interest while they read poetry to one another in their decorated studies! Fine for vagabonds to use to impress the town trollops with as they knock pots off fence posts instead of taking game!
The graceful Pennsylvania! Oh, dear me, such graceful lines and curves! Well, boyo! I'll show you a back alley har that has graceful lines an curves, but for hunting, I'll take something wif a proper bore!
Gibbering, contrary...
Look now! The Pennsylvania! The damn Pennsylvania...weak of stock and lock! Slow to load and quick to foul! Finicky of both ball and patch! Delivering a dainty derringer ball that leaves deer maimed and fevered instead of quickly harvested. Furthermore, the tightness of the bore and the effects of rifling grip create a dreadful back pressure that causes touch holes to quickly burn out. This costs money! To have a touch hole re-sleeved! Never! A proper arm needs no pampering and adjustment.
In no way does the FELINE Pennsylvania allow the fitment of a bayonet. I would think that that alone would draw men to their senses! Sadly this isn't the case. So enamoured of small game and trickery, you forget the danger of bandits and raiders. Also, the nature of certain beasts who apon being missed or lightly wounded, will seek to immediately erase the distance separating you.
The Pennsylvania is fine for parlor tricks and wagers, poor for big game. An item master crafted for antique traders to faun over as their dim-eyed patrons hoist up great coin bags for just the right wall hanger. The Pennsylvania! A shameful distortion of the already questionable jaeger, an item that should have stayed in the old country to fester and gather dust along with its weak-souled inhabitants! If anyone ever shoots me with a snoty Pennsylvania, I'll wrap the pencil barrel around their heads before I take the time to kick some sense into them!
Keep your NASTY twist bores. Have ye a full collection of miss-cut walking sticks! Your flat-snouted, thin-wasted, fussy sub-calibre, problem-prone, high-maintenance tools of the easily impressed! So small of bore and quick to fail I imagine the Army will soon set them as standard!
Elitist! Elitist you say. I'll attribute this word choice to strong drink instead of perverse thought.
Taken seriously...I'm not one who stays awake in the wee hours hopin fans of dainty small-bore gallery guns take me seriously. I wish ye all the joy in Christendom, breaking your ram rod in your fast-fouled strangle-bored Pennsylvania.
True, I may fetch one myself! It will be a fine arm! Once I drill out the barrel to take a real ball, and set it in a stock strong enough for actual field use. Yes, and take it to the smithy to cut its shameful snout for a bayonet. I'm sure then it will be fine.

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coelacanth

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2012, 03:55:25 AM »
 :hmm   a bee seems to have found the opening in Unkle's kilt.  .   .    .    :cool        I would point out that I was referring to a "squirrel rifle" so the dainty calibre and lack of bayonet lug may perhaps be forgiven.   I would in no case take a shot at a deer with such a gun.  Musket's point is well taken about wounded game and good advice for all who hunt.  As for the graceful curves, anyone who has actually carried such a rifle through thick brush knows they slip easily through it without much commotion.   A battlefield weapon?  Certainly not.  Proof against robbers and ill tempered beasts?  Probably not but that's what the pistol in my belt is for and the cold iron sheathed beside it. 

I mean no offense with my choice of words - just an acknowledgement of well known preferences and tendencies and it was not I that was responsible for the quotation error.  That said, if you call me a poacher or an assassin again when all I seek is some meat for the pot we'll have to set down these tankards and have a more serious discussion.   :scrutiny
"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot." 

            Robert A. Heinlein , "Friday"

Mutant Musket

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2012, 08:09:01 AM »
Not ah bee, good sir. I spilt me first cup of coffee an started me day short of the needed dose. Even so, much was jest, the main being the idea that I have a problem wif poachers and assassins.
In truth, rifled arms have their place. Limited though that place may be. Were I to form a party to run down and slay brigands, I would want a mix of crossbwmen*, musketmen, and riflemen. I think a modern combined-arms approach is best for small-unit actions. Yes, a good mix of the three types with the great majority being armed with muskets.
All merrymaking aside and done, it is cold hard fact that the Land Service Musket is still the most useful hunting arm in the Colonies, and folks would do their soul good to admit it.

*failing this, native bowmen are every bit as useful, if not moreso as they know well how to avoid offending the gods.
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RMc

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2012, 04:33:33 PM »
Gentlemen,

Tis of the hour to lay aside personal concerns.  Yea, I have witnessed the power of large hardened lead ball, from the polished bore, impacting hide and meat at the behest of a palm full of good powder. And for all so inclined to voice concern, an ounce of conical lead from a bore with twisting grooves, smashes well through gristle and bone as the view through hanging smoke readily confirms.

Let the argumentative assumptions of superiority fade in the coastal tangles of swamp and vine. Indeed, let us proceed forth to bring home meat for the feast, tales of the hunt for the young and memories to dwell upon before the glowing embers.   
Alabama

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2012, 08:09:14 PM »
Had me a take on the barrel of a smooth bore Springfield in .68 cal.
My shoulder felt like beef jerky for a week. My shot was good into second ring at 50 paces. I don't think I'll do that again. So Musket...you have your point. But I'll take the honorable Mosin for now.

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Indiana'The average response time of a 911 call is over 23 minutes, the average response time of a .44 magnum is 1400 feet per second.'

Mutant Musket

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2012, 08:14:09 PM »
Quite so, RMc...yes...yes indeed.

Now as to the original topic...that miscolored percussion arm...well, I don't mind the alchemical pale ore that makes up the lock and barrel, but that stock...hmm...well, at least the thing isn't below half inch bore, so it can get the job done. A functional arm...if not entirely wholesome in appearance...
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Mutant Musket

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2012, 08:19:57 PM »
Ah, the Mosin. For a cartridge cougher it isn't bad. It's shape doesn't offend and delivers a bullet heavy enough for honest work.
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coelacanth

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2012, 02:03:33 PM »
Gentlemen,

Tis of the hour to lay aside personal concerns.  Yea, I have witnessed the power of large hardened lead ball, from the polished bore, impacting hide and meat at the behest of a palm full of good powder. And for all so inclined to voice concern, an ounce of conical lead from a bore with twisting grooves, smashes well through gristle and bone as the view through hanging smoke readily confirms.

Let the argumentative assumptions of superiority fade in the coastal tangles of swamp and vine. Indeed, let us proceed forth to bring home meat for the feast, tales of the hunt for the young and memories to dwell upon before the glowing embers.   
Well said.   
Not ah bee, good sir. I spilt me first cup of coffee an started me day short of the needed dose. Even so, much was jest, the main being the idea that I have a problem wif poachers and assassins.
In truth, rifled arms have their place. Limited though that place may be. Were I to form a party to run down and slay brigands, I would want a mix of crossbwmen*, musketmen, and riflemen. I think a modern combined-arms approach is best for small-unit actions. Yes, a good mix of the three types with the great majority being armed with muskets.
All merrymaking aside and done, it is cold hard fact that the Land Service Musket is still the most useful hunting arm in the Colonies, and folks would do their soul good to admit it.

*failing this, native bowmen are every bit as useful, if not moreso as they know well how to avoid offending the gods.
Fair enough.  If you can hit small game with a large calibre smoothbore at thirty paces you're a better shot than I am.  If you can find enough meat left after the shot to feed yourself, you're a MUCH better shot than I am.  As to the rest. I concede the point, sir. 

Let us resume drinking.  :cool
"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot." 

            Robert A. Heinlein , "Friday"

Mutant Musket

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2012, 03:54:01 PM »
There's no if involved. Small game with a right sized smoothbore is not usually considered a great feat. Switch from Ball to a charge of small shot. Without the handicap of rifling, the pattern is easy to predict and place. If one is willing, the musket can play at fowler with productive result on bird and squirrel.
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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2012, 05:58:54 PM »
There's no if involved. Small game with a right sized smoothbore is not usually considered a great feat. Switch from Ball to a charge of small shot. Without the handicap of rifling, the pattern is easy to predict and place. If one is willing, the musket can play at fowler with productive result on bird and squirrel.


That's a sure way to go if one has no objection to picking a bit of #8 from their teeth.  ;)



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coelacanth

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2012, 07:07:02 PM »
Agreed.  If I was confined to one long arm a smoothbore would likely be my choice but I have no such restriction for the moment.  I learned early on that headshots on small game were preferred.   Although, I might be convinced to do without if it looked like the picture in the OP.   :vomit
"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot." 

            Robert A. Heinlein , "Friday"

RMc

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2012, 09:58:53 PM »
For those wishing to learn more, find your way to this short tome for a bit of illumination on the many loads of the smoothbore long gun:

http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/SmoothboreLoads.html
Alabama


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