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Author Topic: War in Mali  (Read 4112 times)

Nightcrawler

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War in Mali
« on: January 21, 2013, 11:16:24 PM »
There is apparently a conflict ongoing in Mali.  It primarily involves the French now, but rumors are circulating that the US and even Canada might get involved.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/mali/9814559/France-aims-for-total-reconquest-of-Mali.html

Quote
France aims for 'total reconquest' of Mali

France has declared that its goal was the "total reconquest" of Mali as a frontline commander admitted their forces could be heading for a long war in the African state



 The French authorities had initially insisted their operation in Mali would be short, lasting only "a matter of weeks".

However, Jean-Yves Le Drian, the French defence minister, said that the goal of France's military action was to retake control of the entire country from Islamist militants, who have seized the north.

"The goal is the total reconquest of Mali. We will not leave any pockets (of resistance)" Mr Le Drian told France 5 television.

France's military action against the militants in Mali began earlier this month. However, there are already signs that the deployment could last longer than predicted.

Three days after the country's al-Qaeda rebels and their allies left the town of Diabaly after being targeted by air strikes, and the French infantry has halted 40 miles to the south.



They have established a new forward base in the town of Niono, but have not pressed on to fill the vacuum created by the departure of the Islamists. Instead, French soldiers could yesterday be seen eating and sleeping in their new camp, protected by 14 armoured personnel carriers.

Their commander, who asked to be named only as Colonel Frederic, admitted the "situation in the vicinity of Diabaly was confused for the moment". He added that "more information" was needed before his forces could resume their advance.

But Col Frederic insisted that everything was going to plan. The halt "does not mean the situation is hard - it does not," he said. "We are here to continue the operation".

Asked whether this marked the start of a "long war," Col Frederic replied: "Maybe yes".

Further up the road in Diabaly, French special forces helped the Malian army to enter the town and drive away al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM). But booby traps and improvised explosive devices might have been left behind.

The French air strikes against AQIM were highly effective. Hamidou Tounkara, who left Diabaly for the safety of Niono, said that seven vehicles were singled out for precise and clinical destruction at the hands of the French air force. "Not even one" civilian was killed, he said, adding: "It's extraordinary - you cannot believe it."

When AQIM occupied Diabaly last Monday, moving beyond their stronghold in northern Mali, they spread the word that "we are Muslims, we come in the name of Allah - and we are not going to harm anyone," remembered Mr Tounkara.

They generally kept their promise, although they looted the town's pharmacies of all their medicine and forced the population to stay indoors during the first day of their occupation. One man who ventured out was shot, said Mr Tounkara.

Many of the guerrillas were Algerians and Libyans, although most were Tuaregs from northern Mali, said Abubakar Maiga, 35, another resident who fled to Niono. He could tell their nationality only by language and accent because all the Islamists kept their faces swathed in turbans.

"You never see their faces, you only see their eyes," he said. Some people from the local area were also in AQIM's ranks, added Mr Maiga.

French and Malian soldiers are acutely aware of their enemy's ability to melt into the population, even after a town has supposedly been cleared. This helps to explain their cautious approach towards Diabaly.

"Part of the population has joined the rebels," said Col Seydou Sogoba of the Malian army. "The war against the Islamists is not easy because they will enter into the population and some of the population will join with them."




http://www.globalnews.ca/canada/canada/canada+opened+up+military+channels+on+mali+early+last+year+documents/6442792986/story.html


Quote
Canada opened up military channels on Mali early last year: documents



OTTAWA - Canada's soldiers and diplomats began paving the way for possible military involvement in Mali last spring, shortly after al-Qaida-backed rebels seized control of the country's north, newly released documents show.

The documents indicate Canada began laying down lines of communication with the French and Americans over the crisis in the African country as early as March of last year.

But the spade work has not yet amounted to much with the Conservative government, which only a few years ago had been eager to strut its military stuff on the world stage.

A one-week commitment of a single C-17 heavy-lift transport — intended to assist in relocating French military equipment — will likely be extended later this week. But as fighting escalates in remote desert Malian communities, the Harper government's aversion to getting more deeply involved is almost palpable.

It is a curious turn of events for a government well known for wanting to be seen as leading from the front — throughout the war in Afghanistan, during the Libya bombing campaign, and even in counter-piracy operations off Somalia.

Last spring, Mali's ambassador in Bamako requested additional military officers be dispatched to the capital "in order to increase the level of liaison with U.S. and French military forces in Mali," said an April 5, 2012 briefing for Defence Minister Peter MacKay.

The additional help "was considered necessary in order to conduct additional liaison" as well as to provide advice on potential evacuation plans for Canadian citizens, said the note, obtained by The Canadian Press, and separately by a Queens University researcher, under access to information laws.

The documents show the Harper government set up an inter-departmental task force to monitor the crisis in the aftermath of last year's March coup, which toppled Mali's democratically elected government.

The group was also charged with giving advice on the concurrent advance of al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb, an offshoot of Osama bin Laden's terrorist behemoth.

While the military had done no specific planning last spring, the documents say off-the-shelf contingencies existed if the Harper government opted for military involvement.

Email traffic and directives labelled "secret," obtained by Queen's University researcher Jeffrey Monaghan, show that the country's special forces were particularly keen to open up an ongoing dialogue with allies.

"From a (Canadian Special Operations Force) perspective, it would be beneficial to be tied into ongoing planning efforts, which would enable us to integrate more easily into any international effort," wrote Brig.-Gen. Denis Thompson in a March 28, 2012 email.

Yet, Prime Minister Stephen Harper has since ruled out any "direct" Canadian military involvement, something defence observers say is clearly the product of political fatigue with Afghanistan.

"I think that's definitely a factor," said retired major general Lewis MacKenzie. "Sure, the troops were popular, but the mission was never popular with the way NATO botched it."

The war often intruded on the domestic political agenda in Ottawa, serving as a distraction when the Conservatives were eager to reshape government in the way they have been doing since combat operations in Kandahar drew to a close.

MacKenzie said a conflict in French-speaking Mali has the potential to create domestic political headaches — particularly if it were to result in the dispatch of members of the Royal 22e Regiment from Quebec, where military interventions are rarely popular.

And yet the potential of a terrorist training base in North Africa is a more clear and present danger to Canada and Canadian interests than the decade-long conflict in Afghanistan ever was, he added.

Robert Fowler, the former Canadian diplomat who was held hostage by al-Qaida in the region in 2009, has said French forces — which recently opened up an offensive to dislodge Islamic rebels — will need more help.

British Prime Minister David Cameron said he's wiling to talk about sending intelligence and counter-terrorism assets to assist the French, and even opened the door to reconsidering planned, deep defence cuts.

Nations going into Mali need to learn the lessons of Afghanistan and limit their involvement to simply "whacking al-Qaida" and should not embark on an nation-building exercise, Fowler said.



Mr. Fowler's advice should be heeded.

The British are also in a support role, since France seems to lack any real airlift capability.  If you lack airlift capability, you don't have a modern military.  You have a National Guard, or a Gendarmerie, that's only suited for homeland defense, or involvement in multinational operations where someone else is doing the heavy lifting.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/mali/9813503/Mali-conflict-how-British-forces-are-helping-France-tackle-Africas-Islamists.html

Quote
Mali conflict: how British forces are helping France tackle Africa's Islamists

The giant RAF C-17 Globemaster roared out of the clear, desert sky before landing on a dusty airstrip in Bamako, the capital of Mali – the latest front line in the global fight against al-Qaeda.

 Inside the aircraft’s cavernous fuselage a handful of RAF Regiment troops, the aircraft close protection force, donned body armour, checked weapons and prepared for action, while the defensive aid suite was set to armed – a precaution born more out of the habit of fighting in Afghanistan than from the threat of anti-aircraft missiles.

Despite the intelligence assessment that Bamako is secure no one is taking any risks. Tension in the region has increased in the last 24 hours after the botched hostage rescue operation a thousand miles east of Mali at an oil refinery on the Algerian border.

The RAF C-17 mission, code-named Operation Newcombe, is Britain’s cautious response to the French-led intervention into another desert war of unknown duration.

Although David Cameron has vowed that there will be “no British troops on the ground”, he agreed to a French request to provide two transport planes to help ferry heavy weaponry into the war ravaged country.

Today’s cargo consisted of two French six ton vehicles (the contents of which I have been asked not to identify).



The vehicles are destined for the French 5th Combat Helicopter Regiment, currently conducting operations against Tuareg separatists and an al-Qaeda inspired Islamist militia 250 miles north of the capital.

The equipment forms just a fraction of the equipment being sent to Mali every day as the French troops battle with the Islamists.

Last Thursday seven Antonov aircraft – one of the world’s largest transport planes – arrived crammed with weapons, ammunition and armoured vehicles.

C-17s from 99 Squadron RAF based in Brize Norton, have spent the last seven days shuttling back and forth between France and Mali transporting of tons of crucial supplies into the embattled African state which up until 10-days ago had been close to being overrun.

These vast aircraft which can carry loads of up to 80 tons provide a unique capability within Europe’s military, according to Flight Lieutenant Greig Rawlings, the aircraft’s commander.

“The French asked for help because of the RAF’s lift capability. They needed heavy equipment on the ground very quickly.

"The only other alternative was for their armoured vehicles to go by sea and that would have taken quite a time. The French air force doesn’t have anything as big as the C-17 so we were able to assist.

“The relationship between Britain and France has been excellent. The French are uber keen and have been very supportive – so it is the entente cordiale for want of a better phrase.”

The C-17 is a very special aircraft which has proved its worth during the later stages of the 11-year conflict in Afghanistan on numerous occasions and, according to Flt Lt Rawlings, “was now the envy of the RAF.

“For an aircraft this size it handles like a Tornado,” insists Flt Lt Rawlings. “It can carry everything in the Army’s inventory from a Challenger battle Tank to an Apache attack helicopter.”

The latest stage of the current conflict began after Mali's fragile government had begged for help from France after Islamists drove their army out of the northern town of Konna ten days ago.

It was the fiercest fighting in the Saharan nation since rebels grabbed control of a vast territory bigger than France nine months ago.

An international task force was being prepared and was expected to go into action later this year against the rebels. But after Konna was seized, French forces were ordered into action, apparently supported by African armies.

Francois Hollande, the French President, said he ordered the operation at the request of President Dioncounda Traoré, Mali's president, who has declared a state of emergency.

The French president described the rebels as terrorist groups, drug traffickers and extremists, and said they “show a brutality that threatens us all”, adding that the operation would last “as long as necessary.”

Britain is still counting the cost, in both “blood and treasure” of its wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and their seems to be no appetite in becoming embroiled in another conflict – not yet anyway.

But mission creep is a concept which has come to define modern military operations and there is no reason why a Malian campaign should be any different despite the promises from politicians.

In 2006, Britain sent 3,500 soldiers into Helmand in the hope that they would leave three years later “without a shot being fired”. By 2009 that number had grown to over 10,000 as the Taliban insurgency took hold.

Similarly, France’s military commitment has grown from 800 troops at the outset of the operation just two weeks ago to over 2,500 today.

And the mission has also changed. Initially French troops arrived insisting that they were in Mali to train and support the country’s demoralised and retreating Army – today however those same troops are embroiled in full combat operations. Mali is a country used to war.

The 1960s and 70s witnessed numerous uprisings, rebellions and coups, the latest occurring in 2002. Across the runway, on the military side of the airfield, lay the discarded hulks of Soviet MiG fighters – the detritus of previous military campaigns.

The British presence on the ground in Bamako is, at the moment, relatively small and consists of an Operational Liaison and Reconnaissance Team from Britain’s Joint Force Headquarters.

While politicians claim that the British operation will be short lived and limited, the reality on the ground in Bamako is somewhat different.

The airfield was awash with military equipment; French legionnaires and marines were thick on the ground brandishing serious expressions and heavy weapons.

Newly arrived French helicopters hovered around the airport’s perimeter, either preparing for future missions or providing security against a possible attack.

The French are under no illusion that they face a capable enemy equipped and trained by the late Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi.

Northern Mali is the heartland of al-Qaeda in the Maghreb, a force of ruthless experienced fighters, some of whom have received military training in Afghanistan.

The fear now emerging amongst both the British and the French here in Mali is that the foreign intervention could act as a magnet and draw in other Islamist groups within the region.

US officials have already warned of links between the Saharan-based al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb and the emerging Islamist terror group Boko Haram in northern Nigeria and al-Shabab Islamists in Somalia.

No one I spoke to at the typically African Bamako airport was willing to say how long the current conflict would last or what the outcome might be.

“If the Islamists engage the French in a conventional type war, then the French will win and we can all go home,”one official told me.

“But if the conflict goes asymmetric and the militias use tactics akin to the Taliban then the result could be anybody’s guess.”




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/mali/9815189/French-troops-enter-Mali-town-of-Diabaly.html

Quote
French troops enter Mali town of Diabaly

French and Malian troops have entered the central Malian town of Diabaly, which has been the theatre of air strikes and fighting since being seized by Islamist fighters a week ago, according to reports.



 A convoy of about 30 armoured vehicles carrying some 200 French and Malian soldiers moved into the town at about 9am (local and GMT), without meeting resistance.

French soldiers from the 21st Marine Infantry Regiment as well as parachutists and Malian troops entered the town after reconnaissance flights by Gazelle helicopters, said an AFP reporter with the soldiers.

They had set out at dawn from the town of Niono, which is 37 miles south of Diabaly in Malian government-held territory.

Army commanders expressed fears that Islamists fleeing the town had planted landmines.

After heavy fighting in Diabaly over the past week there was uncertainty over whether all the Islamists had fled the town.



Jean-Yves Le Drian, the French defence minister, said on Sunday that Diabaly, which is 400 kilometres north of the capital Bamako, had not yet been retaken by the Malian army.

"Everything indicates that the evolution of Diabaly will be positive in the coming hours," he added.

On Saturday the Malian army patrolled the periphery of the town, where the situation was "not very clear," according to a French officer based in Niono.

"In theory the rebel fighters have left the town," he said, but added they were both determined and mobile.

A colonel in the Malian army said that a "fringe of the Diabaly population adheres to the jihadists' theories and we must be very careful in the coming hours."

Source: AFP


And, naturally, there are rumors of US involvement.  God forbid a war happen in some dusty Islamic craphole and we not get involved.

http://www.investingchannel.com/article/153390/US-Drones-Boots-Arrive-In-Mali#.UP4QtvKvCSo

Quote

US Drones, Boots Arrive In Mali

Absolutely "nobody" could have possibly anticipated that the week old French incursion into Mali could already have such disastrous consequences: a botched hostage rescue attempt by French commandos while leaving behind one of their team, a downed pilot on the first day of the confrontation, revels that succeeded in capturing a strategic village and military post, and today, yet another hostage crisis in Algeria that has seen tens of hostages killed, potentially including Americans, following another botched rescue operation. Yet, in some ways, perhaps the stars have aligned just right for the US, which as Bloomberg reports, has wasted no time in sending not only drones in the air, but also boots on the ground.

From Bloomberg:


    -U.S. military trainers are expected to arrive in West Africa this weekend to train local military forces to fight Islamist insurgents including those now battling French and local government troops in Mali, State Dept. spokeswoman Victoria Nuland says in Washington.

    -U.S. now providing intelligence, airlift to French troops fighting insurgents in Mali

    -No U.S. troops to operate in Mali; U.S. barred from providing direct assistance to Mali military


So on one hand the US is barred from providing direct assistance, but on the other, US trainers are... providing direct assistance?

But why? Well, take a quick look at the map of French "military assets" in Mali.




US Drones, Boots Arrive In Mali
By: Zero Hedge | Thursday, January 17, 2013 at 05:35 pm EST
476
2

Absolutely "nobody" could have possibly anticipated that the week old French incursion into Mali could already have such disastrous consequences: a botched hostage rescue attempt by French commandos while leaving behind one of their team, a downed pilot on the first day of the confrontation, revels that succeeded in capturing a strategic village and military post, and today, yet another hostage crisis in Algeria that has seen tens of hostages killed, potentially including Americans, following another botched rescue operation. Yet, in some ways, perhaps the stars have aligned just right for the US, which as Bloomberg reports, has wasted no time in sending not only drones in the air, but also boots on the ground.

From Bloomberg:


    U.S. military trainers are expected to arrive in West Africa this weekend to train local military forces to fight Islamist insurgents including those now battling French and local government troops in Mali, State Dept. spokeswoman Victoria Nuland says in Washington.

    U.S. now providing intelligence, airlift to French troops fighting insurgents in Mali

    No U.S. troops to operate in Mali; U.S. barred from providing direct assistance to Mali military


So on one hand the US is barred from providing direct assistance, but on the other, US trainers are... providing direct assistance?

But why? Well, take a quick look at the map of French "military assets" in Mali.


What does this map show?

Nothing.

Mali is one of the most irrelevant countries in West Africa from a resource standpoint, and what happens inside of it is certainly irrelevant from a greater geopolitical standpoint.

What is more important is what this map doesn't show, specifically the name of the country located a few hundred miles to the south: Nigeria.

Now Nigeria is important: very important. Or rather, Nigerian light sweet, one of the highest quality crudes in the world, is. And thanks to the "bungled" French peacemaking attempt, the US now has a critical foothold in what is the most strategically placed stretch of desert in Western Africa, a place where US "military trainers" will now be deployed at will.

Be on the lookout for curious escalations in violence around the capital Abuja, and key port city Lagos, in the coming months once the current Mali fracas is long forgotten.



"Nigeria is very important."

To who? The Nigerians, obviously, but who else? Oh, they think we're there for the oil.  Just like we're getting all that oil from Iraq.  :facepalm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/algeria/9813536/Al-Qaeda-in-Africa-after-Algeria-and-Mali-the-die-is-cast-for-new-struggle-as-terror-spreads-like-a-virus.html

Al-Qaeda in Africa: after Algeria and Mali, the die is cast for new struggle as terror spreads like a virus

Quote
Events in Algeria and Mali show that al-Qaeda, in different forms, is now a potent threat across much of Africa, says Professor Stephen Chan.



Africa is a huge continent of 64 independent states, and Europe and the USA could fit into it several times over. There is no single al-Qaeda organisation in Africa, but many groups claim the name. It is a name that strikes terror, but often there is nothing in common among these "al-Qaeda" groups.

In this sense, the many al-Qaedas of Africa are harder to defeat than one giant entity. And, if hard to defeat, it is impossible to have joint negotiations with them. Wars and their endings will have to be piece-meal.

The ideological core of all who call themselves al-Qaeda is, however, a common one. There is a subscription to the austere and literalist teachings of Wahhabi Islam, a strict form of Sunni that arose in the deserts of Saudi Arabia in the 1700s. To this day, Wahhabi Islam has Saudi Arabia's clerical establishment as some kind of centre point.

It was from Saudi Arabia that Osama Bin Laden took Wahhabi teachings to Afghanistan and found ready partnerships with the Taliban of the 1990s. In Afghanistan, Osama created al-Qaeda, the "Base" or the "Fortress". The first "Base" was bombed by the Americans, but many arose in its wake.

Al-Qaeda's message is a Wahhabi, or Salafist, message – the two forms of Islam being ideological cousins – and its aim is austere literalism and a resistance to the decadence of the West. In its political manifestation, it fights against the perceived imperialism and neo-colonialism of the West.

That is why groups linked to al-Qaeda, like Nigeria's Boko Haram, have chosen their names. Boko Haram means "forbidding the West", or "Western thought is sinful".

But Boko Haram has as many local roots in Nigerian politics and historical communal violence as it has links with al-Qaeda. Many

powerful Nigerian politicians have played with fire by encouraging Boko Haram to force local issues or to destabilise enemies in national politics.

Such groups are prone to fracture. The mastermind of last week's attack on the Algerian oil refinery, Mokhtar Belmokhtar, is both a

criminal gang leader and a veteran of Afghanistan during its Soviet occupation. But he fell out with al-Qaeda's lead group in the Maghreb (North Africa) before his Algerian attack. In his own mind, he may well have sought a counter-attack to the French military incursion in Mali, but he has long operated as a terrorist against the Algerian Government.

Even the so-called Islamist groups arrayed against the French in Mali are divided, and some are against al-Qaeda. There are probably three al-Qaeda groups in the Mali struggle. Only one is home-grown and has a legendary Tuareg commander, Iyad Ag Ghaly. The other two groups have regional aspirations, but may well lack any critical mass of local support. A fourth rebel group, also Tuareg-led and populated, will fight against the al-Qaeda groups if it can come to some deal with the Malian Government over autonomy.

If the French simply attack all four groups indiscriminately, they will lose the opportunity to divide and rule. The trick is to strike a deal with the Tuareg (a nomadic group) fighters who will resist al-Qaeda. You cannot defeat all four groups in the endless deserts of

Mali.

But this kind of mistake – to think of all al-Qaeda as one – has resonated across Western policy. The Western-inspired assault on the Islamic Courts Union in Somalia – using Ethiopian forces as a proxy, as if unaware of the ancestral enmities between Somalia and Ethiopia – drove the ICU out of power in favour of the Western-backed transitional government. This unleashed Al Shabaab who, in the face of the Ethiopian assault, saw little further value in an alliance with the moderate members of the ICU, and set about their own jihad for their own vision of Somalia with fundamental ferocity.

What has been loosely called "fundamentalist Islam"' is not something simple. The writings of Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab, after whom the Wahhabi movement is named, may be austere, literally-minded, and intolerant, but they arose as part of a dispute with the more philosophically-minded schools of Islam in the 1700s.

It is that kind of Islamic philosophical debate that needs to be encouraged today. Whether seeking to encourage debate, or to negotiate ceasefires or alliances on the battlefield – and, above all, if anyone ever has the philosophical and political courage to propose negotiations with even some of the main al-Qaeda groups, just as we now negotiate with the Taliban – full-frontal assault may not be the best way forward.

The die is cast now in Mali. The stakes are high. Will this be the French Afghanistan? And, if not, what will be the result? It may mean a secular but not necessarily democratic Mali. But it will also mean groups who call themselves al-Qaeda melting into air, and reappearing in different forms in different places as the "Fortress" that Osama Bin Laden envisaged multiplies like a virus, needing a vaccine, but subjected only to force.

*Stephen Chan is Professor of International Relations at the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London.


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Outbreak

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Re: War in Mali
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2013, 11:48:10 PM »
Damn, I thought I was at least gonna get a change of scenery until that last pic.

I'm tired of deploying to sandy s___holes. I'm still proposing war with Cuba or Jamaica.
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Re: War in Mali
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2013, 11:59:38 PM »
Oh great. Another war we're gonna end up taking over from the Froggies.  :facepalm
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Re: War in Mali
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2013, 12:02:53 AM »
And, naturally, there are rumors of US involvement.  God forbid a war happen in some dusty Islamic craphole and we not get involved.
In this one, we should get involved.  This one is our fault.  It is because of NATO's Lybia intervention, that Gaddaffi armed the Tuaregs with all the new weapons.  Had we minded our own business, this would not be happening.  So, when Gaddaffi falls, the Tuaregs go back home and take their guns with them.  They start to be successful against the government, so AlQaeda hijacks their movement...  Big surprise, they did this in Syria as well.

Much as I don't want another ME entanglement, if the US has any honor left, they need to take this one.



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Re: War in Mali
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2013, 12:04:43 AM »
And I'm sure the lefty idiots are going to be just fine with jumping into yet another 3rd world mess if their guy is the one doing it.   If it goes wrong, they can just blame it on Bush again.   
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Re: War in Mali
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2013, 12:09:33 AM »
Quote
Much as I don't want another ME entanglement, if the US has any honor left, they need to take this one.

Thanks, but no thanks.  Enough Americans have died over someone's "you break it you bought it" ideas of international relations.  To hell with Mali.  I said the same thing about Libya, but the Powers that Be were just goddamn determined to get us involved in that one, too.

Pay a big PMC company to act as peacekeepers with some international oversight.  Be way cheaper that way.
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Re: War in Mali
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2013, 12:10:32 AM »
 :facepalm    And why did people hate Bush again?

 Look, I don't mind "foreign involvement" for a reason, but this is getting ridiculous.

 Come on, we've got big ass bombers and 500LB bombs for a reason  :neener  Yeah, not real effective, but about as much good as boots on the ground will be long-term. 
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Re: War in Mali
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2013, 12:11:09 AM »
Pay a big PMC company to act as peacekeepers with some international oversight.  Be way cheaper that way.
Hey, that's fine by me.  I don't care how it gets done, so long as it does.



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Re: War in Mali
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2013, 12:20:52 AM »
Hey, that's fine by me.  I don't care how it gets done, so long as it does.

 :scrutiny

There is nothing in that country worth a single American life.  I don't care who got what weapons from where.  It's not our problem and not worth more 19-year old American kids getting their legs blown off over.  No amount of foreign intervention is going to fix Africa.
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Re: War in Mali
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2013, 12:27:57 AM »
 Hell for all I care we can help pay off our debt by selling Africa our outdated weapons..... :coffee  If it ain't us someone else will be making the money  :coffee
Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

Kaso

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Re: War in Mali
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2013, 12:40:47 AM »
There is nothing in that country worth a single American life.  I don't care who got what weapons from where.  It's not our problem and not worth more 19-year old American kids getting their legs blown off over.  No amount of foreign intervention is going to fix Africa.
I fully agree with the first sentence, but as to the rest...  Either deal with it now, or deal with it later. :coffee  Either prevent the problem now, or fix it in ten years.

As I said, if you can get PMCs to do it - guys who willingly get paid to get shot at - great.  Let them be the ones to die.



Kaso
The proper way to get people to use their rights in a way that conforms to one’s own way of acting is through persuasion, not the force of law.

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Re: War in Mali
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2013, 01:01:05 AM »
I fully agree with the first sentence, but as to the rest...  Either deal with it now, or deal with it later. :coffee  Either prevent the problem now, or fix it in ten years.

Or, like we did in Afghanistan, deal with it now, and still be dealing with it in 10 years, and don't solve s___.

My initial reaction was sarcastic. My real opinion is the same as NC's. Not our problem, not worth American lives. In 10 years, it still won't be our problem, and still won't be worth American lives.
TexasOutbreak

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Re: War in Mali
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2013, 01:05:33 AM »
My initial reaction was sarcastic...
Who knew, I thought you liked the islands...  ;)

As to the rest, I've said what I believe, and I'll leave it at that.



Kaso
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Re: War in Mali
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2013, 01:23:10 AM »
Who knew, I thought you liked the islands...  ;)

As to the rest, I've said what I believe, and I'll leave it at that.



Kaso

I do like the islands, and I would volunteer to invade a paradise. However, the geographical location of the fight is the least of my reasons for not getting into this one.
TexasOutbreak

I take my coffee black...like my rifles.

I absolutely despise Glocks. That's why I only own two.

I'm glad that your chains rest lightly upon you. --JesseL


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Re: War in Mali
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2013, 07:43:33 AM »
I seriously doubt theres any support for another war in some sand pit people cant find on a map.  There's nothing there worth fighting for.  If France disagrees let them have it.

louie the lumberjack
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Re: War in Mali
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2013, 02:13:34 PM »
Do we really need to be bailing out the French again?


I seem to remember the US sending trainers (advisors) that wouldn't be involved in direct action before in someplace we should never have been.



This is not going to end well.
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Re: War in Mali
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2013, 04:40:46 PM »
Pay a big PMC company to act as peacekeepers with some international oversight.  Be way cheaper that way.

Is Colonel Hammer's regiment available?
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Re: War in Mali
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2013, 05:26:49 PM »
I know France is proclaiming their urgent need to act for the good of the Mali citizens (I tried "Malians", then "Malinese" and then just gave up) but like in all criminal investigations, you need to look for motive, means and opportunity:

1. France is flatass busted and the Mali gold mines produce a quarter million ounces of gold every year, third highest in Africa and the rebels are messing that up.
2.  Thre leftist President of france has asked the leftist president of the US for help and you know how the marxist's love to hang out together. The Air  Forces of Fidel's little brother and our soon to be new found best friend forever, Hugo of Chavez., will probably be flying missions with Outbreak.
3. The rebels have provided a very convenient excuse to take back that which France knows really belong to them in the first place.
Bud
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Re: War in Mali
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2013, 07:04:52 PM »
Only one thing will fix the middle east...

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Re: War in Mali
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2013, 10:39:22 AM »
The Marine Corps has a bunch of ordnance that is starting to reach it's service life and I can't think of anything better to do with it than to punch holes in the desert. I'll go.

But seriously, we should just send in some spooks to talk to the locals, identify the bad guys as they come up in the ranks and then blow them to little bits with drones and traditional fixed wing. Africa will never be fixed. Ever.  That doesn't mean erasing a few punks from the area is a bad thing.
UtahThe opposition is having a party.

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Re: War in Mali
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2013, 12:26:45 PM »
The Marine Corps has a bunch of ordnance that is starting to reach it's service life and I can't think of anything better to do with it than to punch holes in the desert. I'll go.

But seriously, we should just send in some spooks to talk to the locals, identify the bad guys as they come up in the ranks and then blow them to little bits with drones and traditional fixed wing. Africa will never be fixed. Ever.  That doesn't mean erasing a few punks from the area is a bad thing.

Exactly, give the new and up and coming leaders a little fear of us is about the only half-ways effective thing.  Heck, half of these guys, having US boots on the ground is great as it gives them an actual target to attack.
Montana"I’d say the worst part of all this is the feeling of betrayal,           but I’m betting the part where they break in here and beat us to death might be worse.”

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Re: War in Mali
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2013, 02:37:47 PM »
Much as I don't want another ME entanglement, if the US has any honor left, they need to take this one.

I concur with NC and Outbreak.

Leave Africa alone. Trust me, better off this way. Air drop a few pallets of AKs and MREs if you feel like you need to do something. Air dropping into the Atlantic by "accident" would be even smarter.

There is no upside, and lots of downside. Last thing we want to do is try to modernize yet ANOTHER country with our own loot. On the flip side, helping the French Army out with some freight hauling wouldn't be that bad of an idea. We do owe them for helping out in the last few wars we fought.
To know the darkness is to love the light,
to welcome dawn and fear the coming night.
- Book of Counted Sorrows

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Re: War in Mali
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2013, 02:49:00 PM »
We do owe them for helping out in the last few wars we fought.
On that note, I'm pretty sure that was repaid with interest on Lybia - France's other recent pet war...



Kaso
The proper way to get people to use their rights in a way that conforms to one’s own way of acting is through persuasion, not the force of law.

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Re: War in Mali
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2013, 03:00:11 PM »
What better way to clean out those who would not bare arms against American citizens than making them go to an embroiled Vietnam like conflict.
Which I need to remind everyone that a Democrat President and a Democrat controlled Congress got involved in.
Not that the Repubs are any better at it.
But all of these were to hide the shortfalls and idiocy of bad decisions.
Ah, Politics.
I hate Politics...

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Re: War in Mali
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2013, 04:07:20 PM »
America is never going to learn is it?   :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
Virginia"The Middle East is obviously an issue that has plagued the region for centuries." --Our illustrious leader OBAMA. Tampa, Fla., Jan. 28, 2010


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