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Author Topic: No charges for man who shot Oklahoma police chief four times  (Read 5097 times)

sqlbullet

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Re: No charges for man who shot Oklahoma police chief four times
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2017, 10:49:12 AM »
I know this is a bit of thread necro, almost one year two years after the last post....



FTFY
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    StevenTing

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    Re: No charges for man who shot Oklahoma police chief four times
    « Reply #26 on: January 03, 2017, 11:47:39 AM »
    I know this is a bit of thread necro, almost one year after the last post....


    If I read the account correctly, the LEOs did not have a search warrant to enter this man's home. 
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that be B&E "under color of the law" (I believe that's the term). 

    Was the Chief ever charged with a crime based on this?   Seems like a pretty egregious violation of the 4A.    :hmm

    I think most laws provide some type of immunity to LEO. I'm making the assumption that they were in uniform and serving in an LEO capacity.
    Utah

    GeorgeHill

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    Re: No charges for man who shot Oklahoma police chief four times
    « Reply #27 on: January 03, 2017, 06:20:58 PM »
    Too many plain clothes officers like to go Hollywood and wear a badge only on a belt where a sport coat obscures it.  I once talked to a guy for almost an hour before I noticed it.
     :doh
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    Kaso

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    Re: No charges for man who shot Oklahoma police chief four times
    « Reply #28 on: January 03, 2017, 06:56:22 PM »
    Isn't that kind of the point of plain clothes?  So you aren't 'made' straightaway, but the badge is right there so you can show it if needed?
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    Ken Brock

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    Re: No charges for man who shot Oklahoma police chief four times
    « Reply #29 on: January 03, 2017, 11:14:09 PM »
    I've worked plain clothes for the past 7 years. The idea is for people not to know I'm a cop until I pull out the badge that hangs on a chain around my neck. Otherwise I might as well be in uniform
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    Re: No charges for man who shot Oklahoma police chief four times
    « Reply #30 on: January 04, 2017, 07:33:47 AM »
    I think most laws provide some type of immunity to LEO. I'm making the assumption that they were in uniform and serving in an LEO capacity.

    Immunity to the requirement that they need a search warrant before forcibly entering a home?  :confused :confused
    I don't think that's how the 4th Amendment works.
    "KFOR reported that officers entered the house without a search warrant."

    I'm not sure that "probable cause" would apply either*,
    "In a press release issued Friday, the OSBI said it had determined the bomb threat call did not originate from the man’s house. Dlugonski said the caller used the resident’s name, KFOR reported.",  because if this ^ met the standard for PC then you or I could call a department for a pay phone and using someones elses name claim to be doing any number of nefarious things just to get them raided.   I know SWATing is a thing, but the bar to kicking in a door without a warrant has got to be higher than a phone call.   


    *Just a layman's rough guess, not claiming expertise.

    StevenTing

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    Re: No charges for man who shot Oklahoma police chief four times
    « Reply #31 on: January 04, 2017, 04:09:07 PM »
    Immunity to the requirement that they need a search warrant before forcibly entering a home?  :confused :confused
    I don't think that's how the 4th Amendment works.
    "KFOR reported that officers entered the house without a search warrant."

    I'm not sure that "probable cause" would apply either*,
    "In a press release issued Friday, the OSBI said it had determined the bomb threat call did not originate from the man’s house. Dlugonski said the caller used the resident’s name, KFOR reported.",  because if this ^ met the standard for PC then you or I could call a department for a pay phone and using someones elses name claim to be doing any number of nefarious things just to get them raided.   I know SWATing is a thing, but the bar to kicking in a door without a warrant has got to be higher than a phone call.   


    *Just a layman's rough guess, not claiming expertise.

    I don't have any expertise either.  I'm just using a very broad assumption as there are usually lots of exemptions for LEO.
    Utah

    freeman1685

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    Re: No charges for man who shot Oklahoma police chief four times
    « Reply #32 on: January 04, 2017, 05:19:03 PM »
    Strictly speaking, under the fourth Amendment, there is no "exemption."  I don't think I have to quote it verbatim, we all know what it says.  If they didn't have PC to swear out a warrant, they had none to enter.

    On the other hand, if the guy had been shouting at the top of his lungs, making audible threats, or if someone inside had been calling for help, that gives LE "reasonable suspicion" to enter.  If upon knocking, the man opened the door, and they saw something suspect in plain view, that would also give them reasonable suspicion.

    To quote Sir William Pitt: "The poorest man may, in his cottage, bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown.  It may be frail, it's roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England may not enter; all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement."  It is this statement (spoken before the British House of Commons), and others like it, that are the basis for the Fourth Amendment.

    There is no excuse, they didn't do their due diligence.  That's on them.  Were it up to me, that chief would be out of a job.
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    Chief45

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    Re: No charges for man who shot Oklahoma police chief four times
    « Reply #33 on: January 04, 2017, 05:23:53 PM »
    I don't have any expertise either.  I'm just using a very broad assumption as there are usually lots of exemptions for LEO.

    no,  not a lot.   There are a very few, very limited, and you better be able to fully articulate those reasons in your report and in court.

    fresh pursuit and immediate danger to human life, is pretty much it.

    Most agencies conducting search warrants insist on fully uniformed and identified officers on the entry team, especially if it is known or suspected high risk.   A lot of search warrants we've done have been simply 2 officers go knock on the door and explain on the porch why we are there and what we are looking for pursuant to a lawful search warrant.

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    Re: No charges for man who shot Oklahoma police chief four times
    « Reply #34 on: January 04, 2017, 07:36:51 PM »
    To quote Sir William Pitt: "The poorest man may, in his cottage, bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown.  It may be frail, it's roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England may not enter; all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement."  It is this statement (spoken before the British House of Commons), and others like it, that are the basis for the Fourth Amendment.
    This is cute and all, but these 'sacred property rights' only last as long as you pay your property taxes and do not cross anyone who would pay more in taxes on your property than you do.  So in truth, they do not exist at all.
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    freeman1685

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    Re: No charges for man who shot Oklahoma police chief four times
    « Reply #35 on: January 04, 2017, 07:49:33 PM »
    This is cute and all, but these 'sacred property rights' only last as long as you pay your property taxes and do not cross anyone who would pay more in taxes on your property than you do.  So in truth, they do not exist at all.

    There's no doubt, they've been chipped away little by little, I'm losing my home to the federal government (through foreclosure).  But that still doesn't change the fact that a LEO cannot enter a person's home without an "articulable" reason under the 4th.  Even the federal government had to get a judge's signature on a piece of paper to take my home.
    ArizonaStupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education or by legislation.  Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid.  But stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death, there is no appeal, and execution is carried out automatically and without pity.  RAH

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    Re: No charges for man who shot Oklahoma police chief four times
    « Reply #36 on: January 05, 2017, 02:04:31 AM »
    This is cute and all, but these 'sacred property rights' only last as long as you pay your property taxes and do not cross anyone who would pay more in taxes on your property than you do.  So in truth, they do not exist at all.
    Untrue. 
    They always exist, even if they're being abused or denied.

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    If we fail to preserve our lives it does not mean that we lacked the right to live, simply that another agency violated our right to do so.   


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