My first 1911 .45 ACP

[HiVelSword]

  The answer I'd be happy with is "I made a choice, here's how it shoots so far" 

 

LL, anyone who has been here for any length of time would call BS on that. You can't fool anyone. I can't apologize because the truth is the truth. You might have some respect for let's say, the S&W M&P but you won't carry one. And your Glock related posts make it clear what pistol you think is the greatest of all time. I agree with Mumbles and would also add that you would take personal satisfaction if the OP decided to go with a Glock instead.

And there is nothing wrong with that. Just don't try to act like you are objective in the matter. Because you are not and cannot be. That would also apply to the guys that would only carry a 1911.

[LittleLebowski]

  You know what, don't try to call my personal integrity into question, HVS.  I am honestly telling you I'd just be happy if the OP makes a choice, buys something , shoots the heck out of it and reports back.  Remember, my first recommendation to anyone searching for a new pistol is the M&P.  I've been through a few 1911s (Springfield, Kimber, Nighthawk), a M&P and Glocks, even an BHP.  The Glock is my personal choice but I don't let that dissuade me from recommending the M&P for most. 

 

[M1911a1lvr]

  I think that many if not most production 1911s, especially those in the $1k and below price range need a reliability package to run alongside Glocks, M&Ps, and good SIGs.  I think this based upon my personal experiences, M1911a1lvr.  I'm not the only one, either nor am I in the minority. 

  As far as your argument about SF, SWAT, etc....SF is now running Glocks and SIGs.  Delta is running Glocks. 

  So far in response to the original poster's question about which 1911 he should get that will run as well as a Glock, we've gotten a few good suggestions and a couple saying in essence "1911s already to run as well as Glocks because:  these [insert name here] units run 1911s, the 1911 has been around for a LONG TIME,  and a random selection of links on the internet showing where Glocks have had problems.  Personally, I think MarshallDodge nailed it with his post advising the OP to buy a Springfield Loaded and first see how it runs. 

  Let's work on advice regarding the original poster's question.  This doesn't have to be a 1911 vs Glock flame war.

 
 

   Well we will have to agree to disagree about M1911's not being as reliable as Glocks. I would put up a M1911 out of the box against a Glock any day of the week. We have all seen this gun or that gun fail for any reason, No matter what gun it is.

  As for Delta running Glocks. Not sure about that, But they do get discretionary usage of what ever they need for ops. Still in touch with some of the guys i had served with at Bragg. according to him from a conversation we had 3 weeks ago, He is still carrying his issued M1911a1, as is most of his team.

  FBI HRT carries the Springfield Operator TRP Pistol.
  LAPD SWAT is carrying RRA M1911 contract manufactured guns.
  SF teams like Delta have discretionary usage, Most of them that I ever saw carried M1911's. Some liked the Beretta, Saw some H&K's. Maybe a Glock or two, But those were suppressor set ups.
  ATF high risk service were carrying the Kimber Pro 2 last i checked, But that may have changed in the last year.
  Our VT State Troopers SWAT has a mix of SIG's and M1911's.

  When I was in Indiana at Camp Atterbury for weapons quals with the VT ARNG as an instructor, Before they deployed to Afghan. I saw some DOD Civilian Expeditionary Workforce members getting some trigger time in. They had a mix of M9's and M1911a1s. The Security Teams all used M1911a1s at the Force Protection Unit.

  There was the 19th SF group from Florida, Mississippi, Alabama that were doing some maneuvering training there that had all SIg's P226's. Although I did see some M590 SPX shotguns in the group.

  When the Macedonian President visited Vermont last fall, Most of the secret service guys had either M1911a1's or Sigs. Our governors State trooper bodyguard did have a Glock though. It was a G23 in .357 SIG.


   Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Glocks aren't reliable guns, or that they don't have a place in firearms history. They do as the first production guns to really prove that non-metal frames are durable. They are and although I am not a fan of them and like to sometimes poke fun at them. If I had to use one for carry i would be happy to carry it and know that it is a good choice. Just not MY preferred choice is all. I carry CCW M1911's, SIG's, Beretta's, Ruger's. Now if Glock ever made an M1911 Style pistol, i'm sure that it would be a real banger.

   You have your opinion and I have mine. It's a free country, where we all can voice our opinions.

   As for the OP, Well I would suggest looking at many different M1911a1s from different manufacturers, and price ranges. New and Used, find out who in your friends has one, shoot them, try them out to see what you prefer. Then go with that. nuff said.

   
 
   

[Mumbles]

   Well we will have to agree to disagree about M1911's not being as reliable as Glocks.

  I'll PM you my sources, Mumbles.

  If you think 1911s are as reliable as Glocks, that's fine.

I do not believe a 1911 is as reliable as a Glock.  First of all, 1911s are much more lube dependent which is a big strike against them in the reliability column.  The aggressive feeding angle doesn't help either.  But, they are more than sufficiently reliable.  Enough so that anyone not conducting publicity stunt torture tests would never know the difference.  Just like I would never claim the AR is as reliable as an AK - it's tighter tolerances, DI, and lube dependency will ensure it never is - it is more then sufficiently reliable, and just like I roll my eyes every time I read some exaggerated post about the tragedy of our troops being equipped with M-16 variants, I've gotta roll my eyes at the majority of your (LL) 1911 posts.

[LittleLebowski]

  Mumbles, send me a PM if you have anything you need to get off of your chest.  Otherwise, I'll expect you to quit complaining about me and address the questions at hand.

[Mumbles]

Who's complaining?

As to the issue at hand, which I understood to be "what's the most reliable fullsize 1911 for $650 or less" (we'll leave the Glock statement out of it, since that seems to be the source of all the turmoil), I stated my opinion here:

So anyway, for your budget, Springfield would definitely be my recommendation.

Here:

Right, and assuming he keeps it properly lubed, and doesn't bury it in his back yard for howevermany years or do eleventythousand round torture tests, he shouldn't be disappointed with a Springfield.

It's not your carry gun right?  So assuming it does "fail left and right"  , at least your life's not on the line.

And here:

So anyway, yes, get a Springfield, and in the very unlikely event that it turns out to be the lemon Lebowski seems to believe all 1911s are, since it's not your carry gun, you should be able to sort it out easy enough.

I also agree with everything Marshall Dodge said about the Loaded.  Good luck finding one for $650, but I have seen them for $750.

[HiVelSword]

  You know what, don't try to call my personal integrity into question, HVS.  I am honestly telling you I'd just be happy if the OP makes a choice, buys something , shoots the heck out of it and reports back.  Remember, my first recommendation to anyone searching for a new pistol is the M&P.  I've been through a few 1911s (Springfield, Kimber, Nighthawk), a M&P and Glocks, even an BHP.  The Glock is my personal choice but I don't let that dissuade me from recommending the M&P for most. 

 

Just callin' em like I see em.

I also find it odd that you would recommend the M&P 1st when you carry a Glock which you clearly believe is superior to all other pistols. Not being smarmy here. I'd think you would rec the Glock first and if they didn't like it, tell them to go with the M&P. Just makes more sense to me. And also keeps people from asking, "Your telling me I should get an M&P when you carry a Glock?"

Especially now that the Gen 4's are out.

Just sayin'.

[LittleLebowski]

  HVS, PM me if you want to question my integrity further.  I'm sick of your questioning me and putting words in my mouth.  No more questioning my integrity and further derailing the thread but I will clarify and say that I think the M&Ps and Glocks are a tossup between each other with the M&P being the better choice for the new shooter due to cost, sights, and backstraps in a proven platform.  The Gen4 Glocks are not proven yet; with the G17s being problematic including my own which I reported the day it happened.

  We are on the topic of Glocks because the original poster mentioned his Glock 23 in his question.

  Anyone that has any other questions for me about my personal tastes not directly relating to this thread, PM me.

[sohmdaddy]

Also, maybe Lebowski is not in the market for a new pistol at the moment? Perhaps his next purchase will be an M&P? Maybe M&P's weren't available when he bought and settled on his Glock 19?

[MarshallDodge]

It is amazing how many posts i see on this thread about needing to do a reliability package for the 1911.

Please note that I did not say that an out-of-the-box 1911 needs a reliability package.  My suggestion was to buy the gun and shoot it.  If it runs then leave it alone, if not, take it to a good 1911 'smith to have it gone through.  I believe that Springfield's Custom Shop will perform this service and they have a very good reputation.

None of the 1911's I have ever owned have had a reliability package performed on them.  This includes a Colt Gold Cup, Colt Government, Springfield Loaded, Springfield Champion, two Kimbers, two Les Baers, and a Norinco.  The Colt Gold Cup, Government, and the Springfield Champion could have used the package.  I sold the Government and the Champion because they would not feed semi-wadcutters reliably and I didn't want to spend the money to make them run.  The Gold Cup will feed them about 90% and since it has collector value, is confined to fun at the range.  If push came to shove and it had to be used for defense, it will feed hardball all day long.

I answered the "Can you make a 1911 run as good as a Glock" question the way I did because I am tired of arguing about it.  People read this stuff on the internet or go to their local gunshop and banter all day long as to what is "the best" but most of them don't even shoot their guns enough to even find out.  They feel safe because the somebody told them that if they strap brand X gun on their hip then they are set.  I feel safe because I picked a gun, train with it often, and understand our limitations.  It is a team effort, I take care of my gun and it takes care of me.

LL shoots and trains quite a bit with his Glock so I respect his opinion on the subject.  I don't think that the Glock is necessarily a perfect design but respect them because they have excellent quality control and put good parts in their guns.  Until the G4, they found something that works and stuck with it.  The issues with the G4 will get ironed out and then they will continue to make a quality product.  I believe this comes from the manufacturing mindset the company was built on.  I don't see anyone, not even S&W, that rivals their process.

Just remember that there are junk polymer pistols as well as junk 1911's on the market.  1911's are going to cost you more because there is a lot more to putting one together.  There is also going to be more maintenance.  Whether or not it is worth it is up to you.....

[LittleLebowski]

  Yup, the 2 piece feed ramp design does not lend itself to feeding a very wide variety of bullets.  If you can find a gun setup to run SWCs, your favorite defense round, and ball reliably, you should be good to go.

[jdanderson]

It has been a few days since I last checked and actually made my purchase.  I settled on a Springfield Mil-Spec NIB my local gun store sold me for $580 cash out the door.  I buy quite a bit from them so maybe that is also part of the cash price deal.  I am taking it to the range as soon as I can find some .45 ammo.  I cannot seem to find it anywhere here north of houston except at the range which is a little more expensive for now.  I am glad I have my G23 because .40 is easy to pick up. 

Does anyone know of a good 1911 guy around the Houston area should I need one?

JD

[luke213(adamsholsters)]

Depends on what you need if you just have general questions etc I'm just north of Houston for another month and a little bit(may 1st ish). This would be the second time this week I've realized that I'm really close to a WTA member;) I've been a fairly long time 1911 user and I've had my hands inside mine several times, if your talking about a smith than that's not me:) Well maybe I'll start calling myself a LeatherSmith:)

I'm in New Caney by the way:)

Luke

(on the topic of carry also if your curious I'd be more than happy to let you try a IWB if you want to CCW that thing;)

[LittleLebowski]

It has been a few days since I last checked and actually made my purchase.  I settled on a Springfield Mil-Spec NIB my local gun store sold me for $580 cash out the door.  I buy quite a bit from them so maybe that is also part of the cash price deal.  I am taking it to the range as soon as I can find some .45 ammo.  I cannot seem to find it anywhere here north of houston except at the range which is a little more expensive for now.  I am glad I have my G23 because .40 is easy to pick up. 

Does anyone know of a good 1911 guy around the Houston area should I need one?

JD

  Check/call Walmart daily.  Looking forward to the range report. 

[MarshallDodge]

It has been a few days since I last checked and actually made my purchase.  I settled on a Springfield Mil-Spec NIB my local gun store sold me for $580 cash out the door.  I buy quite a bit from them so maybe that is also part of the cash price deal.  I am taking it to the range as soon as I can find some .45 ammo.  I cannot seem to find it anywhere here north of houston except at the range which is a little more expensive for now.  I am glad I have my G23 because .40 is easy to pick up. 

Does anyone know of a good 1911 guy around the Houston area should I need one?

JD

Congrats on your purchase.  The Mil-Spec has the lowered and flared ejection port and the barrels are throated and polished for added reliability.  If it does not run then call Springfield.  The gun comes with a lifetime warranty so if you have any issues, they will take good care of you.

Typical 1911 issues out of the box are a tight extractor or poor mags but like I said, run it hard and see how it goes before worrying about it.

[LittleLebowski]

  As usual, I agree with MD.  Don't worry about a gunsmith; IF there are any problems, call Springfield. 

[Corey]

I have a few opinions based on experience.  I first was certified as a Glock armorer back when the model 23 had just come out.  I also spent 5 years at Gunsite working on, and customizing 1911 pistols.  This was a good proving ground, as you could build up a custom pistol, and then have someone shoot about 800 to 1000 rounds with it over a five day stretch.  You found out right away if you did it right.

My opinion of a Glock:  You buy it, open the box, and shoot the hell out of it with just an accasional cleaning and a few drops of oil periodically.  They are not perfect, I did see a few stock guns fail, but those are few and far between.  I don't like he factory installed plastic sights. On a gun that sees heavy use I have seen the front sight come off too many times.  Metal sights, night sights or plain black hold up when installed properly.  I don't have enough experience with the fiber optic sights to give an opinion on them, I did recently install a set of Tru Glo TFO sights on my Glock 17, but have not shot it much with them. My only criticism of the Glock is how the fit in one's hand, but S&W seems to have fixed that with the M&P series.

The 1911:  I love my 1911's, I have 3 of them right now and have owned 2 others in the past.  All Colt's, all customized.  In order of ownership, Series 70 Gold Cup (first handgun I bought when I turned 21. Paid $350 for it at a pawn shop in California), Pre Series 70 Gold Cup, (both those guns have gone on to other owners), 1991A1 Combat Commander (my current carry gun, pics in the post your carry piece thread), 1991A1 Government Model, and my newest baby still in the planning stages for custom work, a Series 70 Combat Commander in .38 Super.

Jeff Cooper had one thing right about the 1911, all it needs is good sights, a good trigger, and take off the sharp edges.  Beyond that is cosmetics and personal preference.  There is very little on a 1911 that cannot be screwed up by a hack gunsmith, of course the same is true of any gun but more gunsmiths think they are masters of the 1911 than other guns.

Many of the current 1911 pistols are very good.  Some are tighter than than need to be, leading to problems until they have been shot a lot, Les Baer guns seem to be the worst for this but then they brag about how tight their guns are. Kimber makes a decent pistol but I think it is expensive for what you get.  Springfield makes good guns and it is hard to go wrong with one. The Taurus pistols look good, especially at their price, but I have never shot one so I don't know about their reliability.

Whatever you get, get the extractor adjusted right, get plenty of good magazines (I like Chip McCormick Power Mags) and shoot it a lot.  If you have any problems, go to the manufacturer first. Don't customize until you know what you want and why you want it.

Finally, have fun with it and make sure and tell us what you do get and what your experience with it is. Sorry if it seems like I have written an entire book here but as you can tell I like the 1911, especially if it is a Colt. I don' think the 1911 is the be all and end all of pistols (even Jeff Cooper moderated his opinion in his later years) but it works for me and I enjoy them. Enjoy whichever one you get.I hope this is helpful.

[LittleLebowski]

  Great post Corey, thanks for sharing. 

[LittleLebowski]

My only criticism of the Glock is how the fit in one's hand, but S&W seems to have fixed that with the M&P series.

  And the Gen4 Glock.  You should try one.  I'm packing a Gen4 G17 right now.

[Corey]

  And the Gen4 Glock.  You should try one.  I'm packing a Gen4 G17 right now.

I have handled a Gen4 G22 and liked it.  I may pick up a Gen4 G34 or G35 once they are available.