And the SCAR L is going, going......

[Splodge Of Doom]

What I would be interested to know, is what was the price of the AR15 (M16) when it was first fielded?

Taking inflation into account, was the M16 going at the equivalent of 2-3 grand a pop at the time, or a more sane price?

[Bo Smith]

Just watch.

 

I say it's wishful thinking.

[Coronach]

Well, it's not like FN has piles of civvie SCARs collecting dust in a warehouse. Those puppies are out the door as fast as they can make them, at $3k-ish a pop. The ACR will be the same way, at least at first. Eventually the price will drop, but how far and how fast remains to be seen.

On the one hand, I'm excited that the ACR will apparently have a chance. OTOH, I expect that it will end up with the same outcome, unless it is significantly better or cheaper than the SCAR.

Mike

[Beamish]

What I would be interested to know, is what was the price of the AR15 (M16) when it was first fielded?

Taking inflation into account, was the M16 going at the equivalent of 2-3 grand a pop at the time, or a more sane price?

It seems like the Army was getting them for about $120 each in 1965 which is about $830.57 in 2010

The Army got the M16A4 for $695.25 from FN in March 2009 and the M4 for $938.61 from Colt.  I have NO idea why the M4 costs 35% more than the M16 but the overall unit cost has remained reasonably consistent.

[Grant]

   Wow...$3,000 for a rifle....

   A Broadsword at about $22-2500 is about top of the line.....Can't imagine anything being more.   

   I just don't get what the ACR/Scar's makers think costing that much.  They're nice, their neat.  But basically just improved toys.   I don't see them being 3X the better gun a M4 is.

   

[Coronach]

Looks like the DoD agrees with you. FWIW, so do I. The SCAR and the ACR (assuming the real world version does what the rifle does on paper) is certainly better than the M4, but probably not 3x better. If Cerberus/Remington/Bushmaster is paying attention, the DoD just handed them a huge Clue. If they want a contract, they better come in well below the SCAR's pricetag.

Mike

[Harm]

They better come in right AT the M4's price range, especially given the cost of updating tech, training, armorers and other related gear. 

[Beamish]

They better come in right AT the M4's price range, especially given the cost of updating tech, training, armorers and other related gear. 

They probably have a bit of head room - say 25% more for the first ACRs assuming there is a "test" order of a few thousand - FNH got that for the SCAR. 

Of course that assumes it is "better" rifle/carbine than the M16/4 - something that has only been "proven" on the intertubes.  But I think overall you are right: even if it is objectively better, in a hundreds of thousand units order the price will have to be around the M4.

[GeorgeHill]

Looks like the DoD agrees with you. FWIW, so do I. The SCAR and the ACR (assuming the real world version does what the rifle does on paper) is certainly better than the M4, but probably not 3x better. If Cerberus/Remington/Bushmaster is paying attention, the DoD just handed them a huge Clue. If they want a contract, they better come in well below the SCAR's pricetag.

Mike

If the Military actually contracts for the ACR and Remington puts the focus on ACR production and ramps that up - the cost per rifle will drop dramatically... down to M4 levels in no time.  The ACR is not an expensive gun to make, when made in quantity.

[Coronach]

Assuming Cerberus doesn't get greedy and fails to let it drop that low. I dunno what price point FN quoted to the .mil, but Cerberus better find out what it was and make darned sure they're well below it. I assume that the SCAR would be comparable in price per unit (figuring in manufacturing costs only) to the ACR, and look who didn't get a contract. Was it just cost, or was there a problem with the rifle?

And I completely agree, the ACR has yet to prove itself in the real world. It should be huge...IF it lives up to the hype.

Mike

[percyshelley]

I find it bizarre that the SCAR is ruffling feathers with its price.  It really looks like it was designed to be cheap to mass manufacture.  The upper is essentially an aluminum pasta tube with a little bit of machining, the lower is injection molded, and the internal parts ought to be no more expensive than an AR-types.

Same goes for the ACR, incidentally...

Maybe they have really pushy unions in Herstal?

[Khorne]

I really don't like how new guns are coming out costing over $2000.  Its a PITA because I want them all and I'm poor! Still, if this all serves to lower the cost of the SCAR, then awesome, but I'm sure they'll find reasons to keep the price up.  Look how long the FS2000 has been out and it hasn't gone down in price. 

[GeorgeHill]

Gotta keep in mind the M-16 when it came out, was only popular with those that didn't have to shoot it very much or at all.  After 40 years of continual development they now shoot pretty good.  The ACR or the SCAR, given 40 years of development would turn out to be pretty dang good too.
Between the two, I like the ACR a lot better.  There are things I like about the SCAR, but overall it just feels cheap.  I hate the stock, which feels cheep and flimsy.  I don't like the sights, and I think the trigger needs work.  The SCAR still feels like a Prototype.  The ACR is just the opposite... I like it a lot, it feels solid, I like the sights, I like the stocks (all versions) and it just feels like a fully developed product if you know what I mean.

[Outbreak]

The ACR is just the opposite... I like it a lot, it feels solid, I like the sights, I like the stocks (all versions) and it just feels like a fully developed product if you know what I mean.

It ought to. It's been in development for how long?

[GeorgeHill]

It ought to. It's been in development for how long?

5 years in the hands of Bushmaster?

[Harm]

I honestly think that Bushmaster/Remington is not certain about the ACR and thats why they are relasing their own cheaper piston AR later this year.  Hedging their bets so to speak.   

[Buckeye Redneck]

I honestly think that Bushmaster/Remington is not certain about the ACR and thats why they are relasing their own cheaper piston AR later this year.  Hedging their bets so to speak.   

Follow the dollar , bro.  Another piston gun is cheap insurance..

[toad]

I'm seeing more stories on the mil-blogs that report the desire of both British and American troops for a standard arm that is useful at the 500 meter range.
Right now they are having to mix in .308 (7.62 X 51 mm) weapons with the 5.56 stuff to be effective in the open country ambushes they run into.  RPG's, mortars, old 7.62 X 54 bolt actions are being used by the Taliban at the 500 meter range.  They apparently fire until the allied troops get up to 300 meters then beat feet.
The field officers say they want more ACOG sights, more ammo to practice at the 500 meter range and weapons that can hit man sized targets and take them down.

Whether Army Ordnance (Kremlin West) will ever give it up for a 6.5, 6.8, or 7mm round for the standard arm depends on who has the power to break arms and end careers over there.  If SOCOM finds something that suits them maybe they'll raid the place.

[Ermac]

GONE! Saner heads have prevailed at SOCOM and they have canceled the overly priced (yet fine shooting) SCAR program altogether. I have gotten this from various sources now in and out of the Military. No word yet as to what they will do with the existing rifles in inventory, probably keep them around for the Teams to use them as they see fit until the wear out date comes up. There is nothing new on the horizon, other than getting new toys for the existing M4's in inventory.

It looks like until a MFG can come up with a rifle that does the same job and beat the standardized M4 testing requirements across the board in a sane price point they are not changing (which so far nobody has done so far by a long shot).

How are you a credible source? No links?

[GeorgeHill]

How are you a credible source? No links?

Your kidding right?

[Thernlund]

He's new.  Probably doesn't know James.


-T.

[GeorgeHill]

Your right, T.

Ahem... sorry.

PvtPyle is Special Forces.

[Ermac]

Your right, T.

Ahem... sorry.

PvtPyle is Special Forces.

My mistake then. I just hear lots of internet tall tales.

[GeorgeHill]

My mistake then. I just hear lots of internet tall tales.

No worries...
Welcome to WTA. 
Yeah, there are a lot of rumors mills... but Pyle is a credible source of information when he wants to share it.

[tactical22]

It seems like $ would be better spent designing and fielding more robust trigger groups and intermediate (6.8) gas piston uppers.