Redneck Breaching Load

[Daylight]

I have been wondering about birdshot as a poorman's breacher load.  I have read about using 00 for breaching, with the caveat that riccochet and splatter was considered acceptable by the author of the article.  (Can't remember source.)  Figured birdshot at muzzle flash range would still have enough thump to injure doors and hardware, but #6 and smaller splash or splatter should be less insulting to flesh.  I have seen what birdshot (and even plastic wads) do to plywood at close range.

Anyone with first hand experience, or an authoritative seventh hand account?

[Grant]

  Ummm...I dunno...Never considered breaching rounds.

  Probably...a good alternative would be a redneck birdshot slug....But I ain't gonna test it for safety 

    P.S.  A redneck Birdshot slug: I think y'all know of it, but if not, I'll post it later with a non-liable disclaimer. 

[SSgt G]

I think any size shot from close range will blow all but seriously hardened door hinges off.  I understood that the purpose of a special breachers load, containing some sort of powdered metal, was to prevent injury to persons behind said door who you don't want to hurt.  Hostages, for example.
I have never been through a breachers course but my brother has.  I'll ask him some time.

[Colin]

I've been to a breaching course, but it was a while back now (almost ten years) and all we used was c4 and tnt.  Not much emphasis on locks, but one of the most effective entry tools I have seen is a 250lb marine grunt donkey kicking a door in, all steel, and two padlocks.  The door was supposed to open outwards, and the entire thing caved in.  I don't think this was what you were looking for, but it was definitely redneck

[Colin]

You may have seen this before, but its a good read anyway for those considering shooting locks off:  http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot5_3.htm

I would recommend fiddling with the ammo, maybe replacing the birdshot with powdered metal held in place by wax or similar material.  I think i heard someone say powdered graphite was used sometimes, but I don't know of this is true.  You could always just shoot it from a slight distance with a slug and destroy the lock entirely, but then you would have to not be concerned about who or what is on the other side.

[Daylight]

Shooting locks or hinges isn't a normal part of my work week.  A slug will certainly transfer energy, but it is a big chunk of lead to spall, shatter, spray, and riccochet or over penetrate.  A 250 pound Marine could be very handy, but would probably not store well without regular maintenance.  The last Marine I had in the house was a little smaller than that, but used up the last of my Kentucky solvent.  I did not try applying the Marine to breaching, but had used him as load bearing equipment on a few occasions.

Hand loaded metal powder breaching rounds would probably duplicate commercial loads, but would actually involve effort or cost.  Birdshot is an off the shelf, out of the box solution--if it is effective and less dangerous than (slugs) alternatives.  Hoping it can be one more color in the rainbow of options a shotgun is good for.

[JKimball]

I don't have any experience with breaching, but the birdshot idea sure seems a little sketchy to me.  Shooting metal at those close distances with birdshot seems like you're just asking to get peppered with ricochet.  Maybe I'm just a scaredy cat though.

[SSgt G]

There's always this:  http://www.safetytools.us/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPRODGROUP&ID=25

[RevDisk]

I should take a breaching course.  I'd probably be entertained. 

Here's a good starting place.  If the lock is not mounted in the door itself (ie just in the handle), just knock off the handle.  If it has one or more locks in the door itself (most likely deadbolts) and the hinges are typical residential/office, go for the hinges.  If the hinges are good quality and it has deadbolts, hit the door because the door jamb is the weak spot.  If the hinges are good quality, it has re-enforced plating around the deadbolt, and the jamb is armored, you'll need explosives or a very heft battering ram. 

[GeorgeHill]

When I took my course we used M-16's and shaped charges.  We've come a long way.

[sixboysdad]

I shot a lock off a cabinet once. With an AK-47, with the shot directed downward, the direction that the lock opens. The muzzle was nearly in contact with the lock, so essentially the entire amount of energy was expended on the lock.

It disintegrated. We found the shackle, though.

[RevDisk]

I shot a lock off a cabinet once. With an AK-47, with the shot directed downward, the direction that the lock opens. The muzzle was nearly in contact with the lock, so essentially the entire amount of energy was expended on the lock.

It disintegrated. We found the shackle, though.

Why not use a set of bolt cutters?

[bmitchell]

Not as fun?

Ben

[GeorgeHill]

Have you actually tried using bolt cutters?  Not as easy or nearly as fast as you think.  An M-16 gets that lock off much much faster.

[RevDisk]

Have you actually tried using bolt cutters?  Not as easy or nearly as fast as you think.  An M-16 gets that lock off much much faster.

::cough::

Yes.   If it's destructive and involves a lock, I've done it.   

[GeorgeHill]

Oh I'm not saying one can't.  I've done it too.   5.56mm just makes it a hell of a lot easier and faster.

[RevDisk]

Oh I'm not saying one can't.  I've done it too.   5.56mm just makes it a hell of a lot easier and faster.

I'm moreso worried about bits of the lock flying around at high velocity. Sorry, personal habit.  "Shooting a lock" is basically the equivalent of watching Bubba sporterize some beautiful milsurp.  While I understand the desire to do so, it is still a crime against nature.  




 

[Daylight]

When you are the last crew to leave a jobsite, you sometimes discover that not everyone got the message that you are still there, and they lock you in.  Methods I have used in the past for rapidly opening padlocks include insert prybar and whack with sledge hammer, which generally turns most padlocks into two piece padlocks.  Hot wrench (oxy acetelyne cutting torch) does quick work, but takes longer to set up if your bottles are not already rigged up.  Angle grinder with a razor wheel works if you have power.  Finally, in some cases it is quicker to disassemble a gate or fence section with a multitool or adjustable wrench.

I know how to remove a door, how to reinforce a door, where the weakest parts of most installations are.  I have prybars small and large which I use for work or home remodelling, I have sledge hammers, power tools, even keys for opening doors.  I know that the way into a room could include going through a window, a skylight, or even a wall. 

None of which adresses if birdshot is suitable for remodeling interior and exterior doors in extreme circumstances, or would just lead to noise and harsh language.

[RevDisk]

None of which adresses if birdshot is suitable for remodeling interior and exterior doors in extreme circumstances, or would just lead to noise and harsh language.

The woody part of the doors, somewhat.  I don't see it destroying a decent quality door or door frame in one go.  If they're using quality steel in any exposed areas and you manage to hit it?   Very harsh language indeed, hope you were wearing good safety glasses.

[akodo]

remember, the 12 gauge was used as a breeching tool before there were dedicated breeching loads or dedicated breeching attachments...and it worked fine. 

Now, if someone is viewing their needs ahd door breeching is a possibility (police etc) then yea, get a breeching load

For someone who is preparing for everything, from door breeching to woodcock hunting to grizzly bear stopper, I'd not bother with a dedicated breeching round, you'd have so many dedicated round for each specialty purpose that it would be a logistic nightmare

[hedonistic]

I recommend against  steel shot 

[toad]

Has anybody tried those breaching stand off muzzle screw in attachments?  They look like they should work in theory.

[tactical22]

Shooting locks or hinges isn't a normal part of my work week.  A slug will certainly transfer energy, but it is a big chunk of lead to spall, shatter, spray, and riccochet or over penetrate.  A 250 pound Marine could be very handy, but would probably not store well without regular maintenance.  The last Marine I had in the house was a little smaller than that, but used up the last of my Kentucky solvent.  I did not try applying the Marine to breaching, but had used him as load bearing equipment on a few occasions.