"I'm Sure Everyone is Exploring Their Options Right Now."

[Old Trooper]

http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/

"I'm Sure Everyone is Exploring Their Options Right Now."

I contacted several shooting industry sources regarding California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger's decision to sign oppressive ammunition restriction bill AB962.

The bill requires ammunition to be held behind the counter, restricts sales to individuals to a maximum of 50 rounds per month, bans direct mail and internet sales, and requires retailers to collect intrusive personal information for each sale including:

    Date of transaction.

    Buyer's date of birth, full address, driver's license number, right thumbprint and signature.

    Brand, type and amount of ammunition purchased.

    Name of the salesperson who processed the sale.

While the law theoretically affects only handgun ammunition, many rifles also shoot handgun-caliber ammunition and owners of those firearms will be affected as well. That information would be turned over to the government which would effectively be able to compile a backdoor handgun ownership database on all California gun owners.

The prohibition does not outlaw the unregistered ownership of handgun ammunition, nor does it stop individuals from crossing state lines to purchase as much ammunition as they desire. In effect, it penalizes law-abiding recreational shooters, while potentially creating a lucrative market for ammunition smuggling into California.

The California Association of Firearms Retailers (CAFR) and the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF) are highly critical of the bill, stating:

    NSSF has estimated that AB 962 would cost California at least $2.92 million annually in lost sales taxes and $629,000 in increased operating costs for state agencies. Lost retail sales in California were estimated at $35.7 million. These estimates followed the recent release of a study by the Governor's Office of Small Business Advocate that show over-regulation of small businesses in California costing the state an estimated $492 billion, almost five times the state’s general fund budget and almost a third of the state's gross product. The Small Business Advocate study also found that California's regulatory burdens costs an average of $134,122 per California business, $13,801 per household and $4,685 per resident each year. Small businesses are 98 percent of the state's enterprises and provide 52 percent of the jobs.

    "Despite the excuses given this morning by the governor, nothing will change the fact that this legislation will drive many small, independent retailers already struggling in a poor economy out of business or force them to flee California's burdensome and hostile regulatory environment for greener economic pastures elsewhere-- taking with them their jobs and tax revenue," said CAFR President Marc Halcon.

I sent email to contacts within the ammunition industry, and few seem willing to talk about a possible response.

I asked them all the same specific question: Do you anticipate sanctions by manufacturers against the state of California in response for this law, perhaps similar to Barrett's refusal to sell or service CA state agencies after the ill-advised .50 BMG rilfe ban went into effect?

While anti-trust laws keeps the companies from discussing such an idea with one another, one highly-placed industry source was willing to provide his opinion off the record.

He would not rule out a decision by one or more ammunition manufacturers to refuse to do business with the State of California while the ban was in effect.

"Nothing would surprise me. I'm sure everyone is exploring their options right now."

If ammunition manufacturers do decide to go this route in response, state and local law enforcement agencies may have to find other vendors to supply their ammunition, or face running low on ammunition themselves.
*****************************************************************************************************************
There has been a lot of rumor, smoke & noise over this ill conceived and crappy piece of legislation over the past few weeks.
The old end run of the Gun Control faction pops up it's ugly head again with this new intrusion into 2A Rights. I do not
live in CA and am not subject to this bit of mischief. Folks in Montana would not stand for this for a second and most folks that have
more common sense than God gave a crowbar in other States would not buy into this business either.

The Obama Presidency created Ammo shortages and a whole flock of new Firearms owners. Lets see if Arnold signs this POS Bill.
I do not go to CA because my carry permit is not honored there and the hunting and fishing is far better in the non-coastal Western States.

This is as stupid as the High Cap. Magazine ban and the buffoons that set out to re-define "Assault Weapons" a while back by citing bayonet lugs,
flash suppressors, most semi auto rifles as being evil. Same lame mentality and stupid approach only taking a little different tack this time.

[StevenTing]

Thanks for bringing this forward.  Now I have another thing to add to my list to research.

[GeorgeHill]

All Players in the Gun Industry should remove all business ties with Kalifornia.  Gun companies there should move to a Gun Loving State... Like AZ or UT or WY.  Free States that would embrace them instead of scorn them.

[Bo Smith]

All Players in the Gun Industry should remove all business ties with Kalifornia.  Gun companies there should move to a Gun Loving State... Like AZ or UT or WY.  Free States that would embrace them instead of scorn them.

They should also cease doing business with any state, local, or federal law enforcement agency within the state, including firearms, accessories, ammunition, and service of the same. They should all pull a Ronnie Barrett on the lot of them.

[JesseL]

I can't believe how many gun companies are still in places like Illinois, Massachusetts, & Connecticut. Seriously, WTF? These are states that are actively going out of their way to kill their business and they're still paying them state taxes for the privilege.

More pro-gun states should be courting these companies. I know Arizona's economy could certainly use a few more businesses involved in one of the few industries still seeing growth.

[Irwin]

Now only if I had lots of money Arizonas sounds tempting, aslong as I move somewhere with more than cacti maybe some tree's, who knows a stream or 2 would be nice, would be a bit weird waking up to no sea though.... Well atleast there would be no seagulls  , small mercies

Perhaps the reason these major compnaies dont move as they would have to build a factory else where and would need the people they have at the current place with their skills to work at the new factory.

[JesseL]

Now only if I had lots of money Arizonas sounds tempting, aslong as I move somewhere with more than cacti maybe some tree's, who knows a stream or 2 would be nice, would be a bit weird waking up to no sea though.... Well atleast there would be no seagulls  , small mercies

You got it:
http://wethearmed.com/index.php/topic,5453.msg84575.html#msg84575

Perhaps the reason these major compnaies dont move as they would have to build a factory else where and would need the people they have at the current place with their skills to work at the new factory.

I'm sure the costs of moving would be pretty painful. On the other hand, how much will it cost in the long run to stay in hostile states? There's no easy answer, but it sure wouldn't hurt friendly states to put a little effort into wooing them. Shoot, a couple years ago my town paid $1 Million to Lowes for the privilege of having them build a store here  . If they can do things as retarded as that, they could certainly do a bit to attract manufacturers that will actually bring money into the local economy.

[FMJ]

I for one would be happy if the entire industry cockblocked state law enforcement a la Ronnie Barrett. 

[FluffyHitman]

Or maybe only sell Cali-legal guns to them? "Introducing our new PR-15 California edition carbine! Using ultra-slim magazine technology! Because no honest man needs more than 10 rounds in his rifle."

[FMJ]

Or that...  Who knows?

I actually keep forgetting to ask the school resource officer what kind of AR-15 carbine they keep in the console of their vehicles.  And I bet everyone else has to follow the CA AR rules. 

[g.willikers]

With all the recent talk about state successions from the Union, maybe there will be motivation for California to split into more than one state.

[Precious Roy]

With all the recent talk about state successions from the Union, maybe there will be motivation for California to split into more than one state.

That wouldn't be a bad idea for a few states.  Illinois being one I can think of off the top of my head.

As for California it is a lost cause.  Sorry but that is the situation.  It makes no sense to try to change things there.  Better for Liberty loving citizens of that state to withdraw to a defensible perimeter so to speak.  Just make sure you don't drag the cancerous ideology that turned California into a fascist hellhole with you.

It is high time the shooting industry stood up on principle and stop trying to straddle the fence.  Stop producing firearms in states which are hostile to firearms owners and shooters.  Why any manufacturer is still in the state of Illinois is beyond me when not only are they anti-gun but they're difficult to operate any business in.  Take Armalite for instance.  They're based in Geneseo Illinois.  They could move across the river to Iowa, a more pro-gun state and not even disrupt their employees whatsoever.

If California is hostile to the interests of gun owners and firearms manufacturers then the companies need to band together and stop selling weapons and ammo to the state of California.  Force them to go out of state to get their guns, ammo and equipment.

Will any of that happen?  No, with a few exception like the Honorable Mr. Barrett, they'll continue to do business with the devil.  Unfortunately Lenin was right when he said "The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them".

[eskimo jim]

I wish that more manufacturers would pull Ronnie Barrett's routine with CA and I also wish that they would move towards gun friendlier states.  THe problem is that if these CEOs of firearm related companies got together and one had the spine to say, "my firm will no longer sell products to these states" there will be at least one and more likely more than one CEO at the meeting that would inwardly smile and be on the phone to their marketing department immediately directing them to sell to the states listed by the other CEO.

Jim

[Old Trooper]

“Governator” And California Lawmakers Approve Firearm Owner Registration Scheme

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=5180

Friday, October 16, 2009
 

This week, Governor Schwarzenegger (R-Calif.) signed yet another severe, but impotent gun control measure into law.  Assembly Bill 962, which takes effect on February 1, 2011, mandates individuals purchasing ammunition to be fingerprinted and registered at the time of sale and outlaws mail order ammunition purchases.  AB 962 will also require dealers to maintain these records indefinitely and make them available for inspection by the California Department of Justice.  As an additional burden, ammunition retailers will also be required to store ammunition away from purchasers.  AB 962 failed to garner support from Attorney General Brown, or any law enforcement organization.  In fact, 15 sheriffs wrote letters of opposition to this legislation.

“This law presents intrusive and unnecessary burdens that will only affect law-abiding firearm retailers and gun owners…not criminals,” said NRA-ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox.  “At a time when California is facing dire budget problems, California has squandered valuable resources in policing law-abiding Californians instead of investing in substantive measures that target criminals.  More than two decades ago, Congress abolished similar requirements at the federal level because ammunition sales records were found to be ineffective for solving crimes.  It is indeed regrettable that foolish minds and bogus arguments prevailed over common sense and empirical evidence.”

Governor Schwarzenegger vetoed Senate Bill 585, a bill that would have prohibited the sale of firearms and ammunition at Cow Palace in Daly City, just outside of San Francisco.  He also signed Senate Bill 175, which will exempt gunsmiths from a vague California law.  This exemption will now allow for the exchange of a firearm to or from a gunsmith for purposes of service or repair.

“Governor Schwarzenegger acted in the interest of good public policy with his actions on SB 585 and SB 175.  But, in signing AB 962, he has paved the way for one of the most intrusive and ineffective gun control laws that California has seen in recent years,” said Cox.

NRA will review all possible legislative and legal options to remove this draconian requirement from California statute.
**************************************************************************************************************************************************

[huey148]

Its funny a Republican in California is taking a crap on gun rights (after he made a career of "glorifying" weapons - ever see Commando) who is on the NRA watch list, while in Ohio we have a Democrat (who is a ordained Methodist minister) signing to pass concealed carry and castle doctrine measures and is endorsed by the NRA.  Politics make strange befellows.

Didn't Guns And Ammo mag just move from Los Angeles to Chicago? Isn't that like going from one frying pan to another?

[Old Trooper]

It is Infringement and Politics that appear to go hand in hand right now.
It is a shame. "Elections Do Have Consequences" as We all know by now.

[huey148]

Alright, I went and did some research and read the bill as passed by Cali

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0951-1000/ab_962_bill_20091011_chaptered.pdf

As it was passed it does not make any mention of a 50 round limit, but does create one hell of a paperwork mess just to buy rounds.  A freaking fingerprint, are you kidding me?  Maybe the 50 round limit was in an earlier version and was cut out of the final draft.

Anyway, a bit more inconvenient to buy there, but still possible.

50 rounds a month would be insane, hell I used 3 boxes alone for a steel plate match on Saturday.

[sohmdaddy]

Yeah, it would be awesome if gun and ammo companies said "No More New Guns!!!" to all the police agencies, let's see how safe they feel while they wait for their weapons to wear out. Like I mentioned somewhere else, this was a huge waste of time and taxpayer money in a state that doesn't have a whole bunch of money these days.