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Author Topic: Ruger Blackhawk, .41 Magnum  (Read 4191 times)

FMJ

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Ruger Blackhawk, .41 Magnum
« on: September 22, 2009, 08:49:43 PM »
I might as well ask:  What are you packing there, Jesse?
CaliforniaThere are many like it, but this one is mine.


JesseL

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Ruger Blackhawk, .41 Magnum
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2009, 09:19:20 PM »
I might as well ask:  What are you packing there, Jesse?


Ruger Blackhawk, .41 Magnum



From madogre.com when I got it:
Quote
5-31-07:   Hordeman Jesse found a sweet deal on a sweet gun. He snapped up a rare .41 Mag Ruger Blackhawk with a 4 5/8" barrel for only $370. Man, that would be an ideal packing gun. I'm not big on Ruger guns, but there are the shizznit for single action revolvers... in my opinion there are no others. The Blackhawks are fantastic guns. And the New Vaqueros are also great... I'm still in love with my New Vaquero. We got in one in stainless and I had to sit on my hands to keep from buying it... so my buddy Ben snagged it.

As far as Jesse's gun goes... .41 Magnum is awesome. I love it. I wish there were more guns and carbines chambered for it. Designed to be in between .357 Mag and .44 Mag, the .41 is closer to the .44 in terms of recoil... but it is just soft enough to not be painful even with stout loads unlike .44. Downrange terminal ballistics are impressive.

The .41 was a victim of bad timing when it came out... Right when revolvers were being scoffed at and replaced with automatics. With the recent resurgence of interest in wheel guns, had the .41 Magnum come out now, it would have swept the market and sold like hot cakes. Look at the .500 and .460 and these other ridiculously overpowered cartridges... if they can do well... the sane and rational .41 would have triumphed.

Same thing with the 10MM now, but that's a different story.
Arizona

FMJ

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Ruger Blackhawk, .41 Magnum
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2009, 09:55:23 PM »
So .41 is the 10mm of the revolver world?
CaliforniaThere are many like it, but this one is mine.

Deer Hunter

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Ruger Blackhawk, .41 Magnum
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2009, 10:16:15 PM »
In a nutshell, yes.

The Remington 1740: The most fun you will ever have with a shotgun.

Skeptic49

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Ruger Blackhawk, .41 Magnum
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2009, 08:12:00 AM »
Well, from a guy who was there when the .41 magnum came out...

The .41 Magnum is .410 Diameter the .44 Magnum is .424....

More expensive, and power is near as no beer.  But like the .401 Herter's it still enjoys a fan base.  There was an attempt at a .41 Special loading for police, but they were underwhelmed and stuck with the .357 or went to semiautos.  There were also some people who carried the .41 magnum with the police special load and were disappointed in the stopping power.

Geoff
Who notes he has been around a while.    :coffee


JesseL

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Re: Ruger Blackhawk, .41 Magnum
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2009, 12:59:06 PM »
I've only purchased one box of factory ammo and reloaded from there, so my ammo cost is virtually identical to .44 Magnum.

The .41 is one of those strange cases where the numbers just don't tell the story. As far as comfort and shootability, it really does fall smack dab between .357 and .44 - despite being just a couple hairs smaller than the .44 and nearly identical in power. Don't ask me why. It doesn't make sense. It's just one of those magical things that happens sometimes, like the way it's hard to get a bad .22-250 load.

For me, it's just about perfect. I wanted a sixgun suited to hiking, plinking, and hunting in my area. I wanted something enjoyable to shoot and stuff like defense against grizzlies is a complete non-issue.
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strangelittleman

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Re: Ruger Blackhawk, .41 Magnum
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2009, 01:08:31 PM »
I've only purchased one box of factory ammo and reloaded from there, so my ammo cost is virtually identical to .44 Magnum.

The .41 is one of those strange cases where the numbers just don't tell the story. As far as comfort and shootability, it really does fall smack dab between .357 and .44 - despite being just a couple hairs smaller than the .44 and nearly identical in power. Don't ask me why. It doesn't make sense. It's just one of those magical things that happens sometimes, like the way it's hard to get a bad .22-250 load.

For me, it's just about perfect. I wanted a sixgun suited to hiking, plinking, and hunting in my area. I wanted something enjoyable to shoot and stuff like defense against grizzlies is a complete non-issue.
Yeah, I'm with you! The .41 mag, is terrific! It shoots very flat, more so than the .44 mag. In a large framed 4"-5" revolver, it's near to perfect.
North CarolinaSemper Gumby.....Always Flexible.


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FMJ

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Re: Ruger Blackhawk, .41 Magnum
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2009, 04:13:16 PM »
How is it that the .44 is really .424 inches?  Why don't they just call it a .42 Mag?
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Skeptic49

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Re: Ruger Blackhawk, .41 Magnum
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2009, 04:30:50 PM »
How is it that the .44 is really .424 inches?  Why don't they just call it a .42 Mag?

Welcome to the wonderous world of caliber designations, where a .32 can be a .308 and a host of inheritances going back to cap-n-ball make for interesting history.

And then there are inside and outside lubricated rounds...and those that used to be outside and are now inside... "Don't try to understand 'um, just match the box to the barrel and blast 'um!

Geoff
Who notes a .45 can be .451 or .455 and a .38 special is .357.   >:D

FMJ

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Re: Ruger Blackhawk, .41 Magnum
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2009, 04:32:21 PM »
Quote
Don't try to understand 'um, just match the box to the barrel and blast 'um!

Sounds good enough...
CaliforniaThere are many like it, but this one is mine.

JesseL

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Re: Ruger Blackhawk, .41 Magnum
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2009, 04:36:51 PM »
How is it that the .44 is really .424 inches?  Why don't they just call it a .42 Mag?

It's actually .429".

But anyway, this is one of those artifacts of the evolution from black powder guns loaded with separate components to the adoption of metallic cartridges.

In the days of percussion black powder revolvers, their calibers were specified as something reasonably close to their bore diameter. The barrel for a Colt 1860 Army or Remington 1858 .44 revolver started with a hole drilled to a diameter somewhere close to .440". After that, it would be rifled and the groove diameter would be somewhere around .455", but the lands would remain around .440". These would be loaded with lead balls around .455" or a little more, to get a god bore seal. All was well and the names made sense.

When metallic cartridges got invented and people started converting the cap-and-ball guns to use cartridges, the simplest way to do that was to drill the charge holes in the existing cylinders all the way through. This left you with a revolver with chambers that were around .450" all the way through. You'd then load the cartridge with a heel based bullet (as still seen on the .22 long rifle today, the bullet is the same diameter as the case, except at the base whre it narrows to fit inside the case) the same size as the round ball you would have used before.

Heel based bullets though, needed their lubrication grooves on the larger portion of the bullet, that lay outside the case. This meant they were messy to handle, the lube could be rubbed off, or collect dirt. To solve those issues, they moved to non-heel based bullets that were smaller than the outside diameter of the case for their whole length, so the lube grooves could be located on the portion of the bullet covered by the case.

Unfortunately, these smaller diameter bullets didn't properly fit the full diameter of the bore, and solutions of using hollow-based soft lead bullets to swell and better fir the bore didn't work all that well. So they started making guns with smaller bore to fit the new, inside-lubricated rounds. They still called what had been based on a .44 case a .44, despite the fact that the smaller bullet was now only .429. The same thing happened to make .38s really use a .358" diameter.
Arizona

FMJ

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Re: Ruger Blackhawk, .41 Magnum
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2009, 04:41:14 PM »
And this affliction only affects old school revolver cartridges? Or does it apply to other guns as well?  (For example, I read that the 7.62x54R is apparently in .311 diameter).
CaliforniaThere are many like it, but this one is mine.

JesseL

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Re: Ruger Blackhawk, .41 Magnum
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2009, 05:07:44 PM »
And this affliction only affects old school revolver cartridges? Or does it apply to other guns as well?  (For example, I read that the 7.62x54R is apparently in .311 diameter).

It's not strictly old school revolver cartridges. A lot of those naming conventions carried over to similarly sized pistol rounds, including some invented not all that long ago.

.32 ACP is really something like .312"
.38 ACP is .356"
.380 ACP is .355"
.44 Automag Pistol is .429"

Lost of cartridge designers (or marketers?) choose names that will easily compare to existing rounds with little regard to actual measurment, so these historical quirks can linger for a very long time.

As for the 7.62x54R, that gets even weirder. The Mosin-Nagant is a "three line" rifle. The term "three line" is based on archaic Russian measurment, the "liniya", which is roughly 0.1". Between the conversion to metric and the choice to measure bore rather than groove diameter, we somehow arrived at calling it 7.62mm.

Care to guess what .218 Bee, .219 Zipper, .220 Swift, .221 Fireball, .222 Remington, .223 WSSM, .224 Weatherby, and .225 Winchester all have in common?
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FluffyHitman

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Re: Ruger Blackhawk, .41 Magnum
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2009, 05:14:45 PM »
.224 bullets, same with the .223 remington. I found that out while trying to find a source for .221 caliber bullets.
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FMJ

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Re: Ruger Blackhawk, .41 Magnum
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2009, 09:32:17 PM »
Funny thing that liniyia phonetically sounds just like "line" in Spanish.  Does it have to do with Arshins?  I read that old-school 1891s were calibrated in Arshins instead of metres.

I know this sounds like a stupid question, but what is the difference between bore and groove diameter?  I could probably make an educated guess as to what it is. But I want to have a legit source, and Jesse, when it comes to guns, you are pretty legit.
CaliforniaThere are many like it, but this one is mine.

JesseL

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Re: Ruger Blackhawk, .41 Magnum
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2009, 09:43:26 PM »
Funny thing that liniyia phonetically sounds just like "line" in Spanish.  Does it have to do with Arshins?  I read that old-school 1891s were calibrated in Arshins instead of metres.

I know this sounds like a stupid question, but what is the difference between bore and groove diameter?  I could probably make an educated guess as to what it is.


I think that arshins are part of that same system of measurement. Don't take my word for that, I'm far from an expert on obsolete Russian systems of measure.

Here's a decent illustration:




Quote
But I want to have a legit source, and Jesse, when it comes to guns, you are pretty legit.


Says who?  :scrutiny

Thank you though. I read a lot, retain a little, and try not to speak from my nethers.
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FMJ

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Re: Ruger Blackhawk, .41 Magnum
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2009, 10:14:27 PM »
Oh, thanks for the graphic.

Is the .003" difference between the bullet and the bore significant at all?
CaliforniaThere are many like it, but this one is mine.

THE NORSEMAN

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Re: Ruger Blackhawk, .41 Magnum
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2009, 10:27:36 PM »
FMJ- Can be depending on slug material and pressures driving it.  

What were lands and grooves originally for?  To give the black powder fouling somewhere to accumulate allowing more shots between cleanings.

When they started putting them in spiral cut, certain religious leaders banned them for a few years as they were sure that being that accurate meant they were possessed(serious).  It was many years before the physics of the bullet spinning were understood.

As for the 41 mag?  Three redhawks, a blackhawk, and a Marlin levergun are in the safe.  Guess you could say I appreciate the calibers potential. :o  
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The right of self defense is the first law of nature.

FMJ

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Re: Ruger Blackhawk, .41 Magnum
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2009, 10:34:41 PM »
So NORSEMAN, are you saying that original "rifling" was straight?
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THE NORSEMAN

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Re: Ruger Blackhawk, .41 Magnum
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2009, 10:36:31 PM »
Yep, it was cut for fouling relief, not accuracy originally.
This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty...
The right of self defense is the first law of nature.

THE NORSEMAN

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Re: Ruger Blackhawk, .41 Magnum
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2009, 11:04:51 PM »
As for the 41 magnum specifically, the Speer 200 gr HJHP in front of enough blue dot(yes, I know about the blue dot data recall/warning, but it's a load I've used for years with no signs of high pressure) to run 1550fps muzzle velocity is a neutron bomb on jackrabbits....... ;D
This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty...
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Skeptic49

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Re: Ruger Blackhawk, .41 Magnum
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2009, 11:16:04 PM »
According to legend the church got involved with the rifling controversy and proved that demons hid in the rifling.  They fired a ball of evil base lead, which went straight to the target...then loaded a ball of holy silver, stamped with the cross and blessed with holy water...which missed the target completely.  They banned rifling...which proves that gun control is based on irrational beliefs...except of course for shooting infidels since they were going to h*ll anyway.

Geoff
Who will leave the demon issue strictly alone... :devillol

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Re: Ruger Blackhawk, .41 Magnum
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2009, 11:22:11 PM »
That had to be a long time ago that they had straight rifling, even the kentucky rifles back during the Revolution had actual rifling, didn't they?
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FMJ

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Re: Ruger Blackhawk, .41 Magnum
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2009, 12:20:55 AM »
Wow, that sounds so scientific!

Reminds me of the early insurgents who believed that Allah would guide their bullets.  But like an Army sergeant told me once, "Unfortunately, we killed all the dumb ones."
CaliforniaThere are many like it, but this one is mine.

THE NORSEMAN

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Re: Ruger Blackhawk, .41 Magnum
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2009, 08:31:37 AM »
FluffyHitman-  Yes the Kentucky Rifles had rifling.  Long arms that aren't shotguns without rifling are called muskets.  Example?  The "Brown Bess" musket that the British fired at the Kentucky Riflemen and the Continental Army during a little dust up a few hundred years back.
This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty...
The right of self defense is the first law of nature.


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