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Author Topic: P30SK 9mm (V1) “light LEM DAO  (Read 1195 times)

RMc

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P30SK 9mm (V1) “light LEM DAO
« on: March 11, 2017, 08:14:19 PM »
Any experience with this handgun?

H & K Part no. 730901KLE A5, P30SK 9mm (V1) “light LEM DAO w/three 10rd mags w/night sights – 730901KLE A5 – MSRP $819

 The LEM trigger function is well illustrated beginning at Frame 7:40

« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 10:15:07 PM by RMc »
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    MTK20

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    Re: P30SK 9mm (V1) “light LEM DAO
    « Reply #1 on: March 11, 2017, 08:40:36 PM »
    Do they make this is a DA/SA model? Because, my LGS has one and it was the first H unt K that I was thinking about owning. $700 was out of my range, while the $450 of the Beretta Px4 Storm subcompact was not.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    RMc

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    Re: P30SK 9mm (V1) “light LEM DAO
    « Reply #2 on: March 11, 2017, 10:35:59 PM »
    While the pistol is offered in a traditional DA/SA model, the LEM trigger is a DAO pre-cocked variant.

    Some further searching led to this H&K short on the LEM trigger:

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    coelacanth

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    Re: P30SK 9mm (V1) “light LEM DAO
    « Reply #3 on: March 11, 2017, 10:40:38 PM »
    I have no experience with them but its a decent looking pistol.  Seems a bit chunky though.   :hmm    Apparently the LEM trigger is very similar to the Para Ordinance LDA trigger in the way it operates. 
    Arizona"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot."
                          Robert A. Heinlein ,   Friday

    MTK20

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    Re: P30SK 9mm (V1) “light LEM DAO
    « Reply #4 on: March 11, 2017, 11:01:34 PM »
    Why do you say it looks chunky? They seemed pretty light in hand when I held it.

    Call me crazy, but I think I'd rather the P30SK in the DA/SA variant.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    coelacanth

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    Re: P30SK 9mm (V1) “light LEM DAO
    « Reply #5 on: March 12, 2017, 12:28:25 AM »
    I guess if I'm looking for a concealed carry piece I'd be more interested in something slightly smaller with maybe a single stack magazine.  It would probably work for most people and there's no denying the quality of most H&K offerings but it just hits me as "meh" .  .  .   :shrug   If I was going for a compact carry piece with a DA/SA function or a decocker I'd probably be looking at A CZ-P01 or PCR.   Maybe even the FNS-9C if I decided to go with a striker fired design.   Any of those are considerably less money than the H&K and I don't have to learn how to use a paddle style mag release.
    Arizona"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot."
                          Robert A. Heinlein ,   Friday

    RMc

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    Re: P30SK 9mm (V1) “light LEM DAO
    « Reply #6 on: March 12, 2017, 03:54:32 PM »
    I guess if I'm looking for a concealed carry piece I'd be more interested in something slightly smaller with maybe a single stack magazine.  It would probably work for most people and there's no denying the quality of most H&K offerings but it just hits me as "meh" .  .  .   :shrug   If I was going for a compact carry piece with a DA/SA function or a decocker I'd probably be looking at A CZ-P01 or PCR.   Maybe even the FNS-9C if I decided to go with a striker fired design.   Any of those are considerably less money than the H&K and I don't have to learn how to use a paddle style mag release.

    The P30SK LEM does not have or need a "decocker."
    Alabama

    coelacanth

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    Re: P30SK 9mm (V1) “light LEM DAO
    « Reply #7 on: March 12, 2017, 04:49:43 PM »
    And your point is .  .  .    :hmm?
    Arizona"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot."
                          Robert A. Heinlein ,   Friday

    21B

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    Re: P30SK 9mm (V1) “light LEM DAO
    « Reply #8 on: March 12, 2017, 07:13:50 PM »
    My worst gun purchase ever was a HK P2000SK with the LEM trigger in .40S&W.  Granted it wasn't the light LEM trigger, but it was by far one of the worst triggers--a long take up and you couldn't really find the where the trigger broke--it was always like a surprise.  I would have sworn off HKs forever, but my brother-in-law has a P30 DA/SA with the rear mounted decocker, and it is a pretty nice gun--just not as nice as most Sig DA/SA triggers.

    MTK20

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    Re: P30SK 9mm (V1) “light LEM DAO
    « Reply #9 on: March 12, 2017, 07:18:46 PM »
    My worst gun purchase ever was a HK P2000SK with the LEM trigger in .40S&W.  Granted it wasn't the light LEM trigger, but it was by far one of the worst triggers--a long take up and you couldn't really find the where the trigger broke--it was always like a surprise.  I would have sworn off HKs forever, but my brother-in-law has a P30 DA/SA with the rear mounted decocker, and it is a pretty nice gun--just not as nice as most Sig DA/SA triggers.

    Well, I mean, obviously it won't be as good as a Sig  :coffee (shameless fan boi  :neener).

    Here we have the battle of two cutting edge German manufacturers except one doesn't hate civilians, because we suck  ;).
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    RMc

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    Re: P30SK 9mm (V1) “light LEM DAO
    « Reply #10 on: March 12, 2017, 08:33:20 PM »
    And your point is .  .  .    :hmm?

    The LEM trigger is neither striker fired or DA/SA; rather it is a very light pull DAO that actuates a pre-tensioned spring -hammer fired action.  The LEM system also has the advantage that all exterior hammer fired autoloaders share - that is the user's thumb can physically restrain the hammer during holstering.
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    ZeroTA

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    Re: P30SK 9mm (V1) “light LEM DAO
    « Reply #11 on: March 12, 2017, 11:00:11 PM »
    My worst gun purchase ever was a HK P2000SK with the LEM trigger in .40S&W.  Granted it wasn't the light LEM trigger, but it was by far one of the worst triggers--a long take up and you couldn't really find the where the trigger broke--it was always like a surprise.  I would have sworn off HKs forever, but my brother-in-law has a P30 DA/SA with the rear mounted decocker, and it is a pretty nice gun--just not as nice as most Sig DA/SA triggers.

    It's pretty comparable to the Sig DAK trigger, which I also hate.

    Sig and HK both make excellent weapons, but these long DAO triggers are crap. If anyone says they are good desirable triggers, then they are delusional or fibbers. These triggers were in response to LE agencies wanting something their officers would hopefully shoot themselves with a bit less frequently. They're really both quite terrible.
    I'm not saying you should use an M1A for home defense, but I'm also not saying you shouldn't.

    MTK20

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    Re: P30SK 9mm (V1) “light LEM DAO
    « Reply #12 on: March 12, 2017, 11:23:39 PM »
    It's pretty comparable to the Sig DAK trigger, which I also hate.

    Sig and HK both make excellent weapons, but these long DAO triggers are crap. If anyone says they are good desirable triggers, then they are delusional or fibbers. These triggers were in response to LE agencies wanting something their officers would hopefully shoot themselves with a bit less frequently. They're really both quite terrible.

    I was so disappointed when I pulled the trigger on a Sig P250. Typically the Sig trigger is lovely, but that one was just... Not right  :-\ .

    Just bring back the Sig P224, dangitt. I want Sigs answer to the baby Glock.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    RMc

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    Re: P30SK 9mm (V1) “light LEM DAO
    « Reply #13 on: March 13, 2017, 10:55:05 AM »
    It's pretty comparable to the Sig DAK trigger, which I also hate.

    Sig and HK both make excellent weapons, but these long DAO triggers are crap. If anyone says they are good desirable triggers, then they are delusional or fibbers. These triggers were in response to LE agencies wanting something their officers would hopefully shoot themselves with a bit less frequently. They're really both quite terrible.

    Do you have a similar opinion on double action revolver triggers?
    Alabama

    sqlbullet

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    Re: P30SK 9mm (V1) “light LEM DAO
    « Reply #14 on: March 13, 2017, 03:33:08 PM »
    My daughter fell in love with the P30 at a gunshow we were at March 4.  I have been looking at the models with safety, but after seeing this video I may have to revisit the LEM trigger.

    Anyone know if this is any different than the Para LDA action?
    « Last Edit: March 13, 2017, 04:10:51 PM by sqlbullet »
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    coelacanth

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    Re: P30SK 9mm (V1) “light LEM DAO
    « Reply #15 on: March 13, 2017, 04:30:34 PM »
    The LEM trigger is neither striker fired or DA/SA; rather it is a very light pull DAO that actuates a pre-tensioned spring -hammer fired action.  The LEM system also has the advantage that all exterior hammer fired autoloaders share - that is the user's thumb can physically restrain the hammer during holstering.
    OK- I see the problem.  Yes, you are correct that the LEM trigger is neither a striker fired or a traditional DA/SA design.  I thought I acknowledged that in post #3 when I likened it to the Para Ordinance LDA system which operates in the same way by pre-loading the hammer for a lighter, smoother trigger pull.

     By post #5 I had moved on from that point to the physical size of the pistol and my preference for a smaller single stack design and pointing out that a compact pistol of either striker fired or DA/SA design could be had for a lot less money.  I also was responding to MTK20's previous comment that he would likely prefer a DA/SA version of the H&K. 
    And your point is .  .  .    :hmm?
    I didn't mean that to come off snarky - I was just a little puzzled by your comment in light of what I had posted earlier.     
    Arizona"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot."
                          Robert A. Heinlein ,   Friday

    MTK20

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    Re: P30SK 9mm (V1) “light LEM DAO
    « Reply #16 on: March 13, 2017, 05:24:02 PM »


    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    ZeroTA

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    Re: P30SK 9mm (V1) “light LEM DAO
    « Reply #17 on: March 13, 2017, 07:04:09 PM »
    Ok, so the LEM is not *as* bad as the DAK but I still don't like it. It's still not nearly the same as a SA/SAO which I vastly prefer.

    Do you have a similar opinion on double action revolver triggers?

    No, because for some reason I can overlook it there. With a revolver it's just the nature of the beast. I've also yet to see a DA semi-auto that compares to a well-tuned revolver such as my 19-3.


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    I'm not saying you should use an M1A for home defense, but I'm also not saying you shouldn't.

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