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Author Topic: G21 or 1911...which would you choose and why?  (Read 17518 times)

Lokidude

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Re: G21 or 1911...which would you choose and why?
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2012, 08:48:47 pm »
I generally land on the 1911 side of the debate.  It's what's on my hip right now, in fact.  It just works for me.

That said, I'm picking up a Glock 20 sometime in the near future.  Mainly because Dan Wessons and Deltas are way outta my price range for another 10mm.
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    luke213(adamsholsters)

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    Re: G21 or 1911...which would you choose and why?
    « Reply #26 on: January 31, 2012, 09:06:21 pm »
    I have to say the Glock

    simple, reliable and easy to work on if needed

    I've never understood the whole "grip angle" thing

    I mean my wrist bends.......................I'm just sayin

    The biggest problem I have with the grip angle is being able to get to natural point of aim if I needed to, it's extra apparent for me in low light. I generally point high when I grab a Glock where a 1911 drops right on target for me. I think it's something I could train out of myself but all of my carry guns point the same pretty much. That's actually something I test when I'm looking at a gun is where it points, draw bring it firing position with my eyes closed, then open eye's and see if the sights are lined up.

    I know allot of guys who don't have that problem but allot of 1911 guys seem to have that issue at least from what I've seen.

    Just my 2 cents;)

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    super_b AK

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    Re: G21 or 1911...which would you choose and why?
    « Reply #27 on: January 31, 2012, 09:52:59 pm »
    1911. I've never been a Glock fan, they don't point right for me. The 1911 fits right, has a great trigger, is easy to conceal, and has the possibility to be a family heirloom.

    Plus the 1911 can be as sexed up as your budget can afford, has been on the winning side of 2 World Wars, makes a great club, is as American as apple pie, and will always be looked at at the range.
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    Re: G21 or 1911...which would you choose and why?
    « Reply #28 on: January 31, 2012, 10:01:46 pm »
    1911. I'm not thrilled about manual safeties, but I prefer them to a gun that doesn't fit in my hand. The large frame Glocks (.45ACP and 10mm) are too big for my hands to wrap around. I can shoot them with a standard thumbs-forward grip, but not single handed. 1911's fit much better.

    I've gotten past the grip angle thing. I've learned that grip angle doesn't mean anything as long as you train to acquire your sights, and use them. Replacing sights may be necessary to make them more visible.
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    Re: G21 or 1911...which would you choose and why?
    « Reply #29 on: January 31, 2012, 10:46:31 pm »
    I have to say the Glock

    simple, reliable and easy to work on if needed

    I've never understood the whole "grip angle" thing

    I mean my wrist bends.......................I'm just sayin

    Mine does too.  But it takes me longer to get a firing solution with the Glock than a 1911.  I can usually put 2 rounds exactly where I want them from a 1911 to one from the Glock in the same time interval.  I've really never understood the whole concept that the Glock is somehow more reliable than the 1911.  Really?  100 years of kicking a** and taking names all over the world is an enviable record.  Properly set up and fed its preferred diet the 1911 will stand toe to toe with anything ever built.  Ask Alvin York.   ;)   

    No beef with Glock - just no love affair either.   
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    Re: G21 or 1911...which would you choose and why?
    « Reply #30 on: January 31, 2012, 11:13:54 pm »
    Mine does too.  But it takes me longer to get a firing solution with the Glock than a 1911.  I can usually put 2 rounds exactly where I want them from a 1911 to one from the Glock in the same time interval.  I've really never understood the whole concept that the Glock is somehow more reliable than the 1911.  Really?  100 years of kicking a** and taking names all over the world is an enviable record.  Properly set up and fed its preferred diet the 1911 will stand toe to toe with anything ever built.  Ask Alvin York.   ;)   

    No beef with Glock - just no love affair either.

    I get what you're saying sir and don't have a problem with it

    when I've owned/shot 1911 guns, the grip angle wasn't the problem for me. It was switching back and forth between a SA trigger and the Glock trigger. And since my department is issued Glock, it's just easier for me to stick with one brand

    maybe it's because I've got a ton more time with a Glock than a 1911

    I won't get into reliability. A proper 1911 is a beauty to behold
    South Carolina

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    Re: G21 or 1911...which would you choose and why?
    « Reply #31 on: January 31, 2012, 11:30:37 pm »
    Yup.  Our experience is almost completely opposite.  I have rarely had a Glock in my hand long enough to become comfortable with it - let alone proficient.  The 1911 has been a constant companion from the time I was big enough to hold and fire one. 
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    Coronach

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    Re: G21 or 1911...which would you choose and why?
    « Reply #32 on: February 01, 2012, 01:05:00 am »
    For me, it's a 1911. What matters, though, is you. Which one to you shoot better?

    Assuming both are reliable, go with the one you shoot better. If you shoot them equally well (which is unlikely), look at capacity (Glock) and concealability (probably 1911).

    Remember that the Glock has more rounds in a magazine, but 1911 mags are thinner and can probably be more easily concealed.

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    Re: G21 or 1911...which would you choose and why?
    « Reply #33 on: February 01, 2012, 01:09:29 am »
    I actually just had that debate in real life with myself. Compared a 1911A1 combat commanded (a Griffon), that I had bobtailed to my G21SF. The 1911 had VZ Alien grips on it. Side by side, fully loaded, they weighed about the same (in the hand - didn't break out a scale). With the VZ grips, the 1911 was about the same width as the G21SF in the grip (granted, the 1911 had more of a tapered grip).

    Add to all of the that you have 8+1 vs 13+1 in capacity and I personally shoot the Glock better, the Glock won, hands down. For the way I carried the two guns, I had to dress the same for concealment. I just traded the Griffon for a Smith & Wesson Model 22-4.

    Coronach has a great point! The G21 mags are a pain to wear on the belt. I never notice when I carry the single stack mags, but the fat G21 mags always seem to bump into things. Never have problem with the gun itself though...
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    Re: G21 or 1911...which would you choose and why?
    « Reply #34 on: February 01, 2012, 02:01:14 am »
    Right now in 2012, where livin' is easy, life is good and spare parts are on hand, the 1911 is my choice.

    In TEOTWAWKI, the G21 is my goto sidearm because I'd want a hard use weapon that I won't have to worry about.

    I have both for the above reasons.
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    huey148

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    Re: G21 or 1911...which would you choose and why?
    « Reply #35 on: February 01, 2012, 10:52:06 am »
    hey thanks for the replies folks...the poll on my blog will be up in a bit and feel free to vote there...the choices here went pretty much the way I thought that they would based on what I have seen posted before in other threads....

    The reason I asked the question as I did was because it always seems whenever a conversation/discussion/argument comes up about the 1911 the Glock somehow seems to get the lions share of responsibility for defending/cursing the polymer side of the equation.  I chose the G21 because it is the "duty sized" .45 equivalent of a standard 1911.   I chose the "to carry" requirement to see what people would actually be trusting of their lives on daily basis with.   Simple choice in .45....  1911 or Glock 21 both "stock" as far as they can be.... and that's really not fair I guess because few 1911's are ever "stock". I should have clarified just to make it fairer that the 1911 would have 3 dot or similar sights ILO hump and bump military sights and that the 1911 would be carried with 2 mags (1 inserted and 1 on the belt) with +1 in the pipe (Condition 1 C&L) while the G21 would be carried with 1 mag only..that makes up the difference in capacity somewhat..sorry.  If I added too many "allowables" on the table (modifications, special ammo, custom shop jobs, ect) it would just make the choice that much more cloudier. 

    As for me... G21...I love the 1911 but its been my (not extensive but not limited either) experience that both provide more than adequate accuracy for use as a self defense weapon and reliability that I would stake my life on.  It comes down to 2 things for me...capacity and training.  I shoot steel plate competitions with a G34 and carry a G19 on occasion, its what I am used to.  I was issued a 1911 a long time ago but it rarely ever went to the field in my holster (bottom of the ruck with my bayonet lest I lose one or the other and get flogged...no kidding, my first platoon sergeant would of done that...evil man with beady little eyes).   I feel more comfortable with the Glock and therefore am more apt to use it correctly under duress is my thought process.  Plus, I like the fact that I can completely disassemble the weapon and troubleshoot it if need be.

    Either way, 1911 or G21, I think everyone's choices are correct for them...and a lot of good points have been made.

    Thanks!
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    GeorgeHill

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    Re: G21 or 1911...which would you choose and why?
    « Reply #36 on: February 02, 2012, 01:18:30 am »
    Let me throw down my 2 Cents.

    As much as I love - truly love - the 1911... I'm going to have to say Glock.
    Here's why:

    In every Defensive Pistol Class that I have Taught or Attended I have experienced and witnessed a drastically greater level of reliability in the Glock pistols in all calibers, conditions, environments, and using all different sorts of ammunition.  The Glocks just flat out worked better and accuracy was about Sixes between the two. 
    Also, in every class, I have observed and experienced that Safety Fumble.... Come out of the holster, sight on target, pull trigger... Nothing... Because the Safety was not disengaged at all or completely or whatever.  This takes about half a second to resolve, but in a stressfire situation, that might be too long.  This fumble has happened to people of all shooting skill levels... Veteran SWAT officers, Competition Shooters, on down the line.  Under stress, these instances go up and the recovery time goes up as well.  Glocks don't do this. 
    So because of these two things... I believe the Glock is the better defensive weapon.
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    Atlas8193

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    Re: G21 or 1911...which would you choose and why?
    « Reply #37 on: February 02, 2012, 01:31:45 am »
    Given only the two I would pick the 1911. The ergonomics on Glock products do not fit me well enough for me to bother with trying to gain a proficiency with one.

    ...that, and Glock's are ugly as all get-out...
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    mnw42

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    Re: G21 or 1911...which would you choose and why?
    « Reply #38 on: February 02, 2012, 03:12:15 am »
    Right now I'd say 1911 for all the reasons mentioned, but that isn't to say I can't train to have the same level of skill with a Glock.  The 1911 is a better pointer for me, easier to carry (thinner, thinner mags), and mine have been unfailingly reliable.
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    Re: G21 or 1911...which would you choose and why?
    « Reply #39 on: February 02, 2012, 03:33:04 pm »
    I vote 1911, but because I can't get comfortable even around the 21/30SF grip.

    Also, slight off-topic statement, but currently you can get an alloy 1911 4" for $550 and a Glock 30sf for $550 which makes platform a wash since weight and capacity are really close on those two.

    Since we are comparing the 21 and the 1911, I have to say the 21 has an advantage over the 1911 for most, but I would roll with what I've got and am good with. Since we are being exclusive to these two models, that's my choice.

    Side note: If you use a good holster, and if the trigger on the 1911 is around 5-6lbs (assuming no work has been done to a Springfield or Taurus for instance) you could carry the firearm Condition Zero and technically be no less safe than a G21 since the grip safety would still be active. But that is something I prefer not to do unless I use a level 2 or greater retention holster, and even then it just feels wrong (goes against everything I've been taught).
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    Re: G21 or 1911...which would you choose and why?
    « Reply #40 on: February 02, 2012, 06:17:03 pm »
    I was going to say 1911, but then...

    Let me throw down my 2 Cents.

    As much as I love - truly love - the 1911... I'm going to have to say Glock.
    Here's why:

    In every Defensive Pistol Class that I have Taught or Attended I have experienced and witnessed a drastically greater level of reliability in the Glock pistols in all calibers, conditions, environments, and using all different sorts of ammunition.  The Glocks just flat out worked better and accuracy was about Sixes between the two. 
    Also, in every class, I have observed and experienced that Safety Fumble.... Come out of the holster, sight on target, pull trigger... Nothing... Because the Safety was not disengaged at all or completely or whatever.  This takes about half a second to resolve, but in a stressfire situation, that might be too long.  This fumble has happened to people of all shooting skill levels... Veteran SWAT officers, Competition Shooters, on down the line.  Under stress, these instances go up and the recovery time goes up as well.  Glocks don't do this. 
    So because of these two things... I believe the Glock is the better defensive weapon.

    George broke my heart and rubbed my nose in it with logic, specific evidence, and stuff.

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    P.S.  I, too, love the 1911 and am carrying a SA Loaded 5" right now.  Training can overcome any other problems ergonomics or functional differences cause, but it can't fix fugly.
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    Re: G21 or 1911...which would you choose and why?
    « Reply #41 on: February 03, 2012, 04:34:00 am »
    The G21 for me.  I've got large hands and the G21 fits my hands better than pretty much any other pistol I've ever held.  I've also got a thing for high capacity .45s and 10MMs.  I carried my Glock with +2 mags which with two spares gave me 46 rounds of .45 goodness.  Heavy?  Absolutely.  That extra weight was very reassuring.  I also shot the G21 better than I can shoot pretty much anything else.  Just point and shoot and the bullets went where I wanted them to with very little effort.  Just a natural pistol for me.  No safety levers, no grip safety just pull the trigger.  Simple.  If I ever have to use it for the intended purpose I want things as simple as possible with as much bang on board as possible.  The G21 wins on that count.

    All that said I'd really like a high cap 1911.  The standard capacity 1911s just don't interest me beyond the historical novelty or for target shooting.  A dead reliable, reasonably priced high cap 1911 I'd be all over.  Unfortunately such a beast simply doesn't exist.  I can buy a G21, a bunch of ammo and mags, a holster and probably a seat at a good training course for the price of a reliable high cap 1911.
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    Re: G21 or 1911...which would you choose and why?
    « Reply #42 on: February 03, 2012, 01:14:04 pm »
    1911.  I would only go with a Glock if it was chambered in 9mm.  In my opinion, the G21 is too bulky, recoil is difficult to control, and I would rather look down the nice round slide on a 1911 than the flat top of the Glock.
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    Re: G21 or 1911...which would you choose and why?
    « Reply #43 on: February 03, 2012, 02:42:32 pm »
    Glock: magazine capacity and I actually enjoy the grip angle.  Of course I like the grip angle on musket pistols too.  :shrug
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    Re: G21 or 1911...which would you choose and why?
    « Reply #44 on: February 06, 2012, 02:04:53 am »
    quite a pickle. i've carried my G20 a few times and found that the big butt printed far too much for general purpose carry. but i've also ruled out all gun with spikes projecting from the rear for IWB carry, which is 95% of my carry. either way i'd have to do more planning in terms of cover garments than i have to with my current setup. kind of a wash, might as well flip a coin.

    so...glock, i guess. higher out of the box confidence and less need/want to fiddle with it.

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    Re: G21 or 1911...which would you choose and why?
    « Reply #45 on: February 06, 2012, 10:48:25 am »
    1911
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    Re: G21 or 1911...which would you choose and why?
    « Reply #46 on: February 07, 2012, 11:25:56 am »
    I'll go with the Glock 21SF. I've been carrying all varieties of them for years. The 21s grip is a little large for me but I can shoot it OK. I'd also like a Glock 20 :drool
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    Re: G21 or 1911...which would you choose and why?
    « Reply #47 on: February 08, 2012, 01:43:09 am »
    quite a pickle. i've carried my G20 a few times and found that the big butt printed far too much for general purpose carry.

    My 21 had a big butt too especially running +2 mag baseplates but my butt was big enough to cover its butt.

    I actually carried in a shoulder rig and I'm large framed enough and wear loose enough clothing that printing was never and issue for me.  My torso is big enough to mask one side and my bicep is plenty big enough to mask it from the other.  In a normal heavyweight tshirt like I wear you'd never know I was wearing a shoulder rig.  More so if I had a shirt like a flannel or a jacket on top of the tshirt. 

    I'm much more comfortable with a shoulder rig.  I just never got use to wearing on the hip concealed.  Never cared for it on a duty/gun belt either for that matter.  Up too high and always in the way.  If wasn't carrying in a shoulder rig I preferred a thigh rig if possible.  Hip carry or small of the back carry was the last choice for me.
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    Re: G21 or 1911...which would you choose and why?
    « Reply #48 on: February 08, 2012, 07:32:55 am »
    I like the grip angle on the Glock too -- it somewhat matches that of my round butt S&W revolvers.

    But, I choose the 1911 in a pistol.  Part of it is just long-term familiarity.  But I've had really good luck as far as reliability (so far) and I like the ergos of the 1911.  As a carry gun, my Scandium-framed S&W 1911 is relatively light weight, thinner than a Glock, and reliable.  It's a great shooter and handles nicely, plus it handles recoil very well despite its lower weight.  Even my all-steel guns aren't difficult to carry.
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    Re: G21 or 1911...which would you choose and why?
    « Reply #49 on: February 08, 2012, 10:44:58 am »
    I am late to this party, but gotta add my thoughts.

    I chose 1911, kinda.  My EDC is a Para 16-40 converted to 10mm, so my case like Khorne's is G20/1911.

    I agree with everything George said about the Glock, but the fact remains that when I shoot fast I shoot the 1911 better.   So I train with it as much as I can to minimize the operator issues with the safety.  My gun is 100% except for 175 grain lead SWC.  Those aren't defensive rounds, and they work fine as long as COAL isn't over 1.250".

    At the end of the day it is completely preference related.  I like steel guns and I like the 1911.  Glocks are great, and are fun to shoot, but I like my 1911 better for no good reason.
    Utah

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