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Author Topic: Boberg Arms Corp...really bad, or really good?  (Read 7760 times)

HMPlatinum

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Boberg Arms Corp...really bad, or really good?
« on: September 25, 2011, 04:20:08 PM »
An interesting concept for a pistol allowing more barrel in a smaller pistol.
Or a gimmick action that will never see full production?

http://www.bobergarms.com




Yes, the mag is being loaded correctly.

It seems a good idea, but I thought I'd throw it out for those with more weapon-wisdom and guru-ness to purvey and comment upon.

It's new, and $949 (introductory pre-order price), and not likely to end up in my paws.  I did find it interesting.

ETA:  A link to a video of the action

http://www.bobergarms.com/video/boberg-xr9-patentpending-feed-1
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Doug Wojtowicz

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Re: Boberg Arms Corp...really bad, or really good?
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2011, 04:23:56 PM »
I wonder why Boberg decided to go that route with the magazine since the P-7, which has a similar setup slide and barrel-wise, is so much more conventionally topped. 

This gun seems an awful lot like a VLTOR - mostly vaporware.  I hear very little about it.
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Re: Boberg Arms Corp...really bad, or really good?
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2011, 05:21:39 PM »
Neat that this gives you a longer barrel in a more "compact" package, but.....

...because I like to carry between about 3:00 and 3:15, right on the point of my hip, in a holster that tucks the grip tightly to my side, I find that the part of my G19 that prints the most is not the butt, but the rear right corner of the slide, by the rear sights.   By moving the slide back, presumably so less goes in my pants, I feel like it would print worse.  It's raising that corner even higher on my side, and would poke through my shirt even more.  

But maybe I'm just shaped funny and this is an unusual issue.

Regardless, it's refreshing to see some degree of innovation in pistol design.  Even innovation for nothing other than innovation's sake has value, even if it is ultimately not an idea I will likely buy into.  Much like the Chiappa Rhino.
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Doug Wojtowicz

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Re: Boberg Arms Corp...really bad, or really good?
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2011, 05:37:24 PM »
In defense, the butt on the Boberg, the whole pistol for that matter, is comparable in height to the Glock 26, which is even shorter than the Glock 19.
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Re: Boberg Arms Corp...really bad, or really good?
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2011, 06:39:25 PM »
I read the cost of it in your post as $499. Then I went to the website and saw it was actually $949  :o. That's $450 more than I'd pay.
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Re: Boberg Arms Corp...really bad, or really good?
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2011, 07:51:23 PM »
So it is shorter than a G26, but costs as much as 2 G26s, or 3 P11s. 
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Re: Boberg Arms Corp...really bad, or really good?
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2011, 08:19:54 PM »
Love the look of it - wouldn't pay sticker prices.  If it ended up retail for under 6 bills I'd pack it.
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Re: Boberg Arms Corp...really bad, or really good?
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2011, 09:36:29 PM »
I want to like it.  Clever design.  I like the action.  It's forward thinking... but I'll have to keep an eye on these for a few years.  I suspect the feed mechanism is delicate or prone to wearing out fast.
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JesseL

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Re: Boberg Arms Corp...really bad, or really good?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2011, 09:48:26 PM »
I'm not too concerned about the feed mechanism for one reason: It's almost identical to a belt fed machine gun.
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Re: Boberg Arms Corp...really bad, or really good?
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2011, 10:03:36 PM »
The engineering is outstanding, the problem is the engineering is outstanding. I like to subscribe to the "KISS" school of thought. If I could make a semi auto with only 5 moveable parts it would be my holy grail. Less things to go wrong...
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Chief45

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Re: Boberg Arms Corp...really bad, or really good?
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2011, 12:25:42 AM »
I'm not too concerned about the feed mechanism for one reason: It's almost identical to a belt fed machine gun.


really ?    your serious ?

http://science.howstuffworks.com/machine-gun9.htm

and how does that compare to this ?

http://www.bobergarms.com/video/boberg-xr9-patentpending-feed-1




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Re: Boberg Arms Corp...really bad, or really good?
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2011, 02:18:08 AM »
really ?    your serious ?

http://science.howstuffworks.com/machine-gun9.htm

and how does that compare to this ?

http://www.bobergarms.com/video/boberg-xr9-patentpending-feed-1



He's talking about the feed mechanism of a closed bolt machinegun, like the M2 or 1919. They pull the round out of the belt backward, push it down onto the bolt face, and feed it forward into the chamber.

I can't remember what the guts of an M2HB look like enough to say how similar the designs are, it's been a while, but at least the principle is sound.

I wouldn't carry one of those pistols because I'd probably powder burn the hell out of my support hand thumb. I'd be a lot more interested if they gave it a 4.5" barrel or so; it's not like it would be any harder to conceal, my support hand thumb would be safe, and I'd get that much more velocity in what would still be a very compact pistol. Even if they did that, I doubt I'd hang up my 1911s or Hi Powers to carry one.
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Re: Boberg Arms Corp...really bad, or really good?
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2011, 10:49:43 AM »
Jesse is correct.  And in a Machinegun not so much a problem... beefy parts.  In a little tiny handgun, I see potential fragility.  I would be pleased if I'm wrong.
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Re: Boberg Arms Corp...really bad, or really good?
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2011, 12:10:45 PM »
The more I check this pic out the more I like it.  It's growing on me.
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Re: Boberg Arms Corp...really bad, or really good?
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2011, 12:19:32 PM »
I've been following the development of the XR9s for a long time, I really want one but I've got several other guns ahead of it on the "must have" list.

Oleg Volk is pretty sold on the idea (not that his opinion matters more than anyone else's but its a reference point)

There aren't many out there to hear reliability reports but I've not heard of any issues or fragility so far at least.
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Re: Boberg Arms Corp...really bad, or really good?
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2011, 02:41:11 PM »
I am sold on the idea because I shot the prototype as it evolved. The production version just has much better fit and finish, on part with the best custom guns I've seen.

I have yet to clean the pistol that I am shooting now but it's had zero malfunctions in the first 350 or so rounds of all kinds of ammunition. It's accurate for a pocket pistol (1" at 21ft slow fire), it fits one more round than PM9 (same size and weight), the recoil is very low (closer to a Beretta 92 than to a pocket pistol). It lacks the slide lock on empty chamber. I plan on dealing with that by loading the last shot with tracer.

It is expensive. My thinking is that we often spend more than $950 on rifles that get fired a few times a year at the range but balk at spending the same on the daily carry gun...makes no sense to me. Relative to the conventional micro guns, it's like comparing the Chauchat with a Lewis...both were light machine guns but one was a joy to use and reliable and the other -- though simpler in design, wasn't. How many of you would hand a subcompact 17.5oz 9mm to an 11yo kid and expect him to enjoy the experience? http://olegvolk.net/blog/2011/09/24/shooting-well-at-age-11/

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Re: Boberg Arms Corp...really bad, or really good?
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2011, 04:15:09 PM »
I could see this as an interesting backup piece, except for the price.  At $949.00,  I have lost all interest.

If this was in the $300 to $400 range, I'd be interested,  as it is,  I'd rather carry my G27 or even my old model 36 because that is all this would be to me,  a backup piece or the one I grab on the way out the door to walk to dog.
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Re: Boberg Arms Corp...really bad, or really good?
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2011, 05:46:43 PM »
I think Oleg's point is well taken.  The price is not anywhere near a fancy shotgun or even a top notch hunting rig.  If his product delivers as promised and the production doesn't hit any major QC snags, Arne will sell all of these he can make.   Can you do the job for less money?  Probably, but Seecamp autos are still in high demand as are the offerings from Wilson Combat and many others.  I'll bet you can even get Luke to whip up a holster for one  ;D  .
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Re: Boberg Arms Corp...really bad, or really good?
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2011, 06:21:06 PM »
The pistol? Not so much, I like Kahr PM9

I am completely sold on Oleg Volk though
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Re: Boberg Arms Corp...really bad, or really good?
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2011, 01:24:34 AM »
I have two being shipped in next week, the buyer asked me to not open the boxes until he gets there (I usually do to verify serial numbers before they go into the bound book)

He offered to let me shoot it after we are done with the transfers. I'll let you know what I think.
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Re: Boberg Arms Corp...really bad, or really good?
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2011, 04:58:44 PM »
Cool.  Looking forward to the report.
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Re: Boberg Arms Corp...really bad, or really good?
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2011, 07:10:33 PM »
Make that three of them, I hope I make a good impression, this guy obviously has expensive taste in guns.

He just forwarded the serial numbers being shipped to me, he sounded hopeful for delivery early next week but hasn't given me a tracking number yet.
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Re: Boberg Arms Corp...really bad, or really good?
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2011, 10:11:14 PM »
An interisting concept. I don't see why it couldn't work. The rear extraction reminds me of my PKM belts. How ever it pushes the round up to the chamber as opposed to droping them down, so it has to work against gravity. Though to be fair every semi-auto pistol I know pushes rounds up a feed ramp into the chamber. The only exception I can think of would be the Webley Fosbery  revolver. The short video reminds me a lot of the keltec RFB with how it extracts the empty to a tube aboce the chamber.
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Re: Boberg Arms Corp...really bad, or really good?
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2011, 01:58:10 PM »
I read about one of these a while back. It seems like a good way to get the extra punch of 9mm out of a longer barrel pistol in a small package. It's certainly forward thinking rather than another idea that's borrowed from the past. I'll continue to watch it. If it's reliable, it could be a nice little carry piece.

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Re: Boberg Arms Corp...really bad, or really good?
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2011, 08:39:47 PM »
So they came in today! Great packaging, nice looking gun, good ergonomics and well done fit and finish.

I would have a range report but there was one problem, the gun wouldn't chamber around... at all. The gun locked up like a bank vault with the round jammed under the barrel. Pulled the round up into position but it wouldnt ride up the slide high enough to go in the chamber. Also couldnt clear it, with the slide back you cant get underneath the round from the mag well side, and with the slide forward the ejector wouldnt release the round into the empty mag well.

Oddly enough the first thing I said when talking about the Boberg was "how do you clear a jam, it looks difficult" and the response was well you shouldnt have to they are reliable.  :shrug
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