I figure it's been a while since we've had a thread like this, and what kind of gun forum would we be if we didn't have an "Arm Yourself/Your Troops" Thread every once in a while?

So here's the scenario. It's the mid 1970s. You are an officer in a police department, and you have just been promoted to Detective. And you've scored high enough on the Detectives Exam (and have performed well enough on the street) that you have been assigned to a "plainclothes tactical" unit similar to the NYPD Stakeout Squad or the LAPD's Special Investigative Section. You and your new squadmates conduct surveillance on suspected criminals and/or predicted crime locations and, when necessary, apprehend the criminals.

Unfortunately, this is inner-city America in the mid 70s The War on Drugs is raging. Drug dealers are using increasingly violent measures to protect their turf, "bump off" rivals, and silence witnesses. As if drugs weren't bad enough, your city is a hotbed of left-wing "revolutionary" activity. Bombings, kidnappings, and outright assassinations seem to be occurring with increasing activity, and there is at least one major heist per month. Worse still, drug dealers and revolutionaries alike are acquiring serious firepower. The days of punks with cheap small-bore revolvers and automatics, and maybe a sawed-off double-barrel are gone, at least for you. The people you'll be pursuing are more likely to be armed with M1 Carbines, M76 submachine guns, AR-18s, or even the new Mini-14s.

Fortunately, your department has always had a rather "liberal" policy when it comes to sidearms. Your department issues each new recruit with a brand-new 4" Smith & Wesson Model 15, and maintains a large number of 2" Model 10s for plainclothes officers. And the department has finally caught up with the times (i.e. caved into the police union) and finally retired the old 158-grain lead round-nose .38 Special load (aka "the widowmaker") in favor of the new 158-grain +P lead semiwadcutter hollowpoint Winchester recently introduced for the FBI and the Chicago PD. However, once an officer completes their probationary period, they are allowed (and in certain units, like yours, encouraged) to privately purchase an "auxiliary Sidearm" for duty use. And since it's the mid 1970s  and the lawyers haven't completely taken over yet, the only requirements your department has for an Auxiliary Sidearm is that the officer must furnish their duty gear for the sidearm, they may only carry factory ammunition in the sidearm, which they must purchase out-of-pocket (unless it's a .38 Special, in which case they must use department-issued ammuntion), and they must be able to attain a passing qualification score when using the weapon. So basically, if you can qualify with it, then you can carry it. Doesn't matter if it's a revolver or semi-auto. So long as you can shoot it enough to pass your department's (rather easy) qualifications standard and find a holster and ammo for it, you're good to go

The department also allows and encourages officers to carry a backup piece immediately upon graduating the academy. These are not issued and must be privately purchased, but again, if you can qualify with it, then you can carry it, and you have to use department-issue ammo if it's a .38.

So.. what do you choose? Do you keep your issue sidearm and carry something like a Chief's Special or Walther PPK on your ankle? Do you use your issue .38 as a backup while you carry a big-bore revolver or an automatic in a shoulder holster? Or do you discard your issue sidearms altogether?

By the way, this topic was inspired by the entry I'm working on (or at least trying to work on. Stupid late-night classes and tons of homework.) for Baen Books Fantasy Short Story Award. I've already got the loadouts for my two detectives pretty much figured out, as well as what I would probably carry myself, but I'll post those later on. Right now I'm interested in what y'all would choose.

I'm thinking in that situation I'd take up the offer of the 2" Model 10 in the round butt configuration from the department and all the 158 grain +P .38 Specials they would furnish.  If they offered the option of the stainless model 64 I'd take one of those.  Said revolver could operate as a duty weapon for a plainclothes officer or an off duty weapon in a pinch.

 In a high threat situation like a stakeout or a raid I would be carrying a Colt Commander in .45 ACP loaded with Super Vel 185 grain Speer hollowpoints and a couple of spare magazines full of the same.  It would have to be worked on a bit to get it to feed everything smoothly and reliably but it would definitely be my choice.   At that time I might have opted for a shoulder holster for it. 

Super Vel was forced out of business in the mid 1970's but more than one police department adopted their stuff as duty ammo.  Lee Jurras and J.D. Jones pretty much set the stage for all of the modern handgun ammo that came later from the major manufacturers. 

As a back up gun ( or a New York reload ) I'd probably carry a S&W Model 60 in an ankle holster and feed it the same ammo as the K frame.

You don't mention any long guns as department issue.      If I were on a high threat detail I would certainly want the option of using a rifle or a shotgun as my primary weapon should the whole thing go sideways.  Any thoughts about that? 

H&K P9 in .45ACP. All the stopping power of the M1911A1 but without the hammer to get snagged while drawing it from a holster concealed under a snazzy 70's suit.

While I love the model 15, I think I'd opt for a commander sized 1911. I wouldn't want a 9mm due to the bullet technology back then (so sadly, no Browning high power for me). I also would want a model 36 on the ankle as a BUG.

I'm thinking in that situation I'd take up the offer of the 2" Model 10 in the round butt configuration from the department and all the 158 grain +P .38 Specials they would furnish.  If they offered the option of the stainless model 64 I'd take one of those.  Said revolver could operate as a duty weapon for a plainclothes officer or an off duty weapon in a pinch.

 In a high threat situation like a stakeout or a raid I would be carrying a Colt Commander in .45 ACP loaded with Super Vel 185 grain Speer hollowpoints and a couple of spare magazines full of the same.  It would have to be worked on a bit to get it to feed everything smoothly and reliably but it would definitely be my choice.   At that time I might have opted for a shoulder holster for it. 

Super Vel was forced out of business in the mid 1970's but more than one police department adopted their stuff as duty ammo.  Lee Jurras and J.D. Jones pretty much set the stage for all of the modern handgun ammo that came later from the major manufacturers. 

As a back up gun ( or a New York reload ) I'd probably carry a S&W Model 60 in an ankle holster and feed it the same ammo as the K frame.

You don't mention any long guns as department issue.      If I were on a high threat detail I would certainly want the option of using a rifle or a shotgun as my primary weapon should the whole thing go sideways.  Any thoughts about that?

I was a kid in the 70s, but did they even have the Colt "Commander" back then?  I was consuming rags like "G&A" and "Handguns" at the time.  I don't remember even hearing about that model until some time in the mid 80s.

The alloy framed Colt Commander was introduced commercially in 1950 and the all steel Combat Commander was introduced in 1970.   

I did not know that. 

All weapons would be privately owned, so I could do what I liked to them.

Primary strong-side carry is a custom 3" S&W Model 19.  Custom, because this one is on a Square Butt frame.  Training and duty load is 158gr factory (weak) magnums, and the adjustable sight is dialed in for those at 50 yards, though the department issue .38s can work in a pinch.  Finished in a bright nickel.

Weak side backup is a M&P snub - the fore runner of the department's standard Detective sidearm.  The main difference is the thumbnail front sight, and about thirty years.  This weapon shows its age, though it has been reasonably well cared for.  The finish is mostly gone, with only a gray patina and some freckling remaining.

Both weapons have been worked over by the S&W custom shop, (or whatever it was called back then) and both wear factory stock panels with Tyler T Grips.

For armed raids, a Remington 870 police model with a shortened stock, or if things really look grim and the minorities are rioting, an Armalite AR-18.

Interesting set of facts.  After 4 years in the USAF Security Police (4 inch S&W Model 15s and CARs).  I took my honorable discharge from Uncle Sam in '77 and was immediately recruited by Harris County Sheriff's in Houston.  Except for your first two years, Harris County had a fairly liberal weapons policy under Sheriff Johnny Klinginfelter (common spelling).  In the academy, and throughout the next two years you had to carry a revolver in .38 or above that you could qualify with.  And while many of my academy classmates went out and bought S&W model 29s (in both four and six) you then had to fit that piece in a covered  (widow-maker) holster made of that black shiny faux leather stuff that I forget the name of right at the moment.  The entire rig was huge.  I went with a 6"
Python in blue steel  for my everyday carry and loaded with Remington 125 grain semi-jacked HPs..  And yes the night shoots were very fun, however it really drove home the fact that there was no follow-up shot possible.  When I was in plainclothes I threw that Python in a Safariland shoulder holster.  The SO allowed for a second gun which for me had to be a 1911.  I had a nickel (anniversary model) Browning HP, but there simply was not a tactical load that was worth a damn back then.  The 9 had screaming velocity (remember the joke; dispatch Ive been in a shooting, I need an ambulance at First and Main, Second and Main, Third and Main .  .  .)  but nothing that would stay in a bad guy's body.  124 grain Silver Tips came out and we all ran out and bought them, but there was always a question about wether they would hold together if you sent them through a barricade.  It was too much of a guessing game and the stakes too high to be wrong.  I went with a Colt Commander (customized by Arnie Swenson??? In Southern Calif. ) loaded with the 200 grain CCI "flying ashtray."   That became my BUG and my off duty piece.  I also had a Gerber stiletto in a plastic sheath tied under my arm to one of my vest straps.  Those were bad old days when Heroin and Qualudes were ruling the street and Angel Dust was just about to go big time.  I kept a Remington 870 in the car loaded with a slug followed by #4 buck and so on.  In the trunk was a 20 inch barrel Winchester 30-30 loaded with 150 grain soft point.  Some guys carried the mini 14 - but reliability was always an issue.  That old 30-30 always went bang and had the psychological effect of having to work the lever.  I survived two shootings in Houston, and another when I worked in Henderson, NV.  So I was either lucky or made good choices.  I'm retired now.  I still carry everyday.  Either a Wilson 1911 with Federal HTC or my Browning HP with 147 Gold Dot.  Thanks for the memories, stay safe. 


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I was a kid in the 70s, but did they even have the Colt "Commander" back then?  I was consuming rags like "G&A" and "Handguns" at the time.  I don't remember even hearing about that model until some time in the mid 80s.

I own a 1978(?) colt combat commander. they were around.

A pair of 1911's, in a shoulder rig.  Thompson SMG in the trunk of my Chevelle SS.   And a Winchester Shotgun to go along with it.

Double tap!

How about these?

Magnaport combat mini


Winchester model 12 riot gun


Then in 1977 our detective busts an arms dealer and two guns "fall out of the truck".

FN 50.63


Beretta 92 "step slide"



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The M-14 and L1A1 are choices I like and the guns were out there but, I doubt they would have been available especially the L1A1 at least in the states. For that mater I don't know that those two would make good urban police guns.

The M-14 was available,  if somewhat pricey.    Browning also imported Belgian produced FAL's starting in the 1960's.  You might have had trouble finding an inch pattern gun though.