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Author Topic: Army develops dry weapons lube  (Read 3817 times)

aikorob

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GeorgiaFrom The Codex Kalachnikova: "He who would have you surrender your arms does so because he wishes to do something you could prevent by their usage."

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    mqondo

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    Re: Army develops dry weapons lube
    « Reply #1 on: February 13, 2016, 11:15:20 AM »
    Sounds like they could have just asked the Gundoc to do his Permanent Slipstream Treatment on their guns. :thumbup1
    Utah

    aikorob

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    Re: Army develops dry weapons lube
    « Reply #2 on: February 13, 2016, 12:24:07 PM »
    Sounds like they could have just asked the Gundoc to do his Permanent Slipstream Treatment on their guns. :thumbup1

    my thought as well
    GeorgiaFrom The Codex Kalachnikova: "He who would have you surrender your arms does so because he wishes to do something you could prevent by their usage."

    GeorgeHill

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    Re: Army develops dry weapons lube
    « Reply #3 on: February 13, 2016, 04:59:08 PM »
    Dry Lubes are for Rubes. 
    Wet is where it's at. 


    Okay. Here's why.   Wet Lubes help flow debris out of the action where it could build up and cause problems.  Grit, Carbon, unburnt power... gets moved away with wet lubes.  Dry lube doesn't do that.
    Also, lubricants keep gunk solvent so you can clean it out easier.  Dry lubes let the gunk cook in and make a home.
    Wet Lubes coat surfaces better, close over areas that didn't get coated, and provide better barrier protection against moisture and thus fights corrosion better.
    Better When Wet.
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    Buckeye Redneck

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    USMC 0621 vet.  Yeoman farmer.  All around hillbilly.

    mqondo

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    Re: Army develops dry weapons lube
    « Reply #5 on: February 13, 2016, 06:15:13 PM »

    Dry Lubes are for Rubes. 
    Wet is where it's at. 


    Okay. Here's why.   Wet Lubes help flow debris out of the action where it could build up and cause problems.  Grit, Carbon, unburnt power... gets moved away with wet lubes.  Dry lube doesn't do that.
    Also, lubricants keep gunk solvent so you can clean it out easier.  Dry lubes let the gunk cook in and make a home.
    Wet Lubes coat surfaces better, close over areas that didn't get coated, and provide better barrier protection against moisture and thus fights corrosion better.
    Better When Wet.
    What would the Gundoc say, since he has wet lubricants, and also the permanent treatment?


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    MTK20

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    Re: Army develops dry weapons lube
    « Reply #6 on: February 13, 2016, 07:33:11 PM »
    Dry Lubes are for Rubes. 
    Wet is where it's at. 


    Okay. Here's why.   Wet Lubes help flow debris out of the action where it could build up and cause problems.  Grit, Carbon, unburnt power... gets moved away with wet lubes.  Dry lube doesn't do that.
    Also, lubricants keep gunk solvent so you can clean it out easier.  Dry lubes let the gunk cook in and make a home.
    Wet Lubes coat surfaces better, close over areas that didn't get coated, and provide better barrier protection against moisture and thus fights corrosion better.
    Better When Wet.

    I must admit, there seems something counterintuitive about dry lubricant  :hmm.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    aikorob

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    Re: Army develops dry weapons lube
    « Reply #7 on: February 14, 2016, 05:36:52 AM »
    whether it's "heat of battle"; too much multitasking; or simple forgetfulness, I guess the military figures any kind of permanent lubricant/protection would help with functionality.
    It was stated several times that this was being considered in addition to the standard CLP
    GeorgiaFrom The Codex Kalachnikova: "He who would have you surrender your arms does so because he wishes to do something you could prevent by their usage."

    Plebian

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    Re: Army develops dry weapons lube
    « Reply #8 on: February 14, 2016, 06:11:21 AM »
    Okay. Here's why.   Wet Lubes help flow debris out of the action where it could build up and cause problems.  Grit, Carbon, unburnt power... gets moved away with wet lubes.  Dry lube doesn't do that.
    Also, lubricants keep gunk solvent so you can clean it out easier.  Dry lubes let the gunk cook in and make a home.
    Wet Lubes coat surfaces better, close over areas that didn't get coated, and provide better barrier protection against moisture and thus fights corrosion better.
    Better When Wet.

    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    GeorgeHill

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    Re: Army develops dry weapons lube
    « Reply #9 on: February 14, 2016, 07:33:17 AM »
    I do not need citation if i'm the source.

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    Plebian

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    Re: Army develops dry weapons lube
    « Reply #10 on: February 14, 2016, 03:13:30 PM »
    I do not need citation if i'm the source.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

    Okay. That is a fine point if you just wish to state things with no supporting evidence. However many of your points are just absurd on the surface. (No pun intended there.)

    1. 'Grit, Carbon, unburnt powder... gets moved away with wet lubes.'

    If your surface is not wet to begin with then the materials do not collect on your moving parts as much. Anyone that has operated machinery in dry dusty conditions knows wet lubricant collects fine dust and powder like mad. It is far better to not collect the debris in the first place.

    2. 'Lubricants keep gunk solvent so you can clean it out easier. Dry lubes let the gunk cook in and make a home.'

    A good surface treatment like the article is describing doesn't allow 'gunk' to 'cook in' to the surface. That is how modern ceramic non-stick surfaces work. They leave nothing for the chemical reaction to adhere to on the surface. So that makes the surface much easier to clean. You have stated yourself many times that the dry surface lubricant Gundoc applies makes a bolt easier to clean.

    3. 'Wet lubes coat surfaces better'               

    If you have a surface treatment that is smaller on the molecule level than your wet lubricant. Then it would by definition coat a surface better. So this idea comes down to individual molecule size and not wet/dry.

    4. 'close over areas that didn't get coated'       

    If a surface treatment is applied chemically then it will not leave areas not coated, unless there was an error in treatment.

    5. 'Provide better barrier protection against moisture and thus fight corrosion better.'         

    This is going to come down to individual products and is not really a dry/wet issue. I would tend to side that a good surface treatment will not allow water to penetrate the surface OR allow salt molecules to adhere to the treated surface as easily.

    Everyone knows that lubrication is not a zero sum game. We can use both surface treatments(dry), and fluid lubrication together for better function than either single material on its own.                   

    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    MTK20

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    Re: Army develops dry weapons lube
    « Reply #11 on: February 14, 2016, 04:19:34 PM »
    :hide
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    GeorgeHill

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    Re: Army develops dry weapons lube
    « Reply #12 on: February 14, 2016, 05:13:05 PM »
    Okay. That is a fine point if you just wish to state things with no supporting evidence.

    Years of hands on use and direct observation has allowed me to form my own opinion.  And I've done a lot of Lubricant testing in harsh conditions... including No Lube coatings and other dry lubricants.  More than enough to form a solid opinion.
    You don't agree with me or my opinion - That's fine.  Use what you want.  Makes no difference to me.  Not on this slightest.  Neither does your opinion.
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    seanp

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    Re: Army develops dry weapons lube
    « Reply #13 on: February 15, 2016, 03:09:58 PM »
     :cool
    "Nobody wants to be here and nobody wants to leave."
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    Re: Army develops dry weapons lube
    « Reply #14 on: February 16, 2016, 12:18:50 PM »
    Some information from a man that knows more about Lubrication than anyone.  Came across this as I was rewriting my Firearms Finishes article for Point Blank Range's newsletter. Saw that and went - "Oh, hey.  Citation."  Because it was previously published on the internet.  It was also linked to and used as a reference by the US Department of Energy for like a Decade and a half.   I never understood what it was the DOE that linked to it.  But hey.  Who cares, right?


    Quote
    There are other Spray and Bake finishes that are more sophisticated… they don’t use a plastic, but instead use other synthetics such as Nylon or Teflon or uses PTFE particles.  These finishes have differing degrees of self lubrication.  One popular finish of this type is NP3.  It sports a high level of lubricating particles in the finish that make the surface slick.  Such finishes are good, but don’t be fooled by the slickness, it still needs to be lubricated like any other gun.  Maybe not as much, but they should still be lubricated.  NP3 and Black-T are a good examples of this type of finish.  The factory says no lube is needed.  I say it does.  To answer this question I consulted an expert in the field of lubrication, someone known to many experienced shooters at least by reputation, George C. Fennell.  I said to him in an email that it was my theory that while these finishes are slick, lubrication is still needed due to heat and pressure during firing… and I asked him if my theory was correct.  Here is his answer:
    “With PTFE dry film coatings, you are absolutely right. They do need an extra level of protection, even though they’ve come a long way since the old “frying pan” days, when all you needed to do was scratch a Teflon coated surface and the peeling was then a guaranteed and catastrophic event.  Today’s coatings such as Dura Coat, Black T, and others, amalgamate the PTFE into the base substrate, making it MUCH more resilient and long lasting, but the oxidation and corrosion properties of the elements will still penetrate the porosity of the coating without an added protection like FP-10 and others.  Even Walter Birdsong, the inventor of the Black-T coating, preaches the use of FP-10 on all his weapons and touts it as the best “brush-less” cleaner available today*.” *Note, that was at the time, I believe MPRO-7 Cleaner is better now.
    « Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 03:52:48 PM by GeorgeHill »
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    JesseL

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    Re: Army develops dry weapons lube
    « Reply #15 on: February 16, 2016, 03:40:35 PM »
    Arizona

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    Re: Army develops dry weapons lube
    « Reply #16 on: February 16, 2016, 03:49:57 PM »
    For Butthurt.
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    JesseL

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    Re: Army develops dry weapons lube
    « Reply #17 on: February 16, 2016, 04:57:25 PM »
    Also keeps parts from sticking.
    Arizona

    MTK20

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    Re: Army develops dry weapons lube
    « Reply #18 on: February 16, 2016, 05:53:40 PM »
    While I'm used to disagreements on here, this seems oddly similar to trolling.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    coelacanth

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    Re: Army develops dry weapons lube
    « Reply #19 on: February 16, 2016, 06:07:07 PM »
    Not really.  Just different points of view orbiting a central idea.   Different kinds of personal experience drawn from ,occasionally, vastly different backgrounds.   I can find some credence with both of the main schools of thought here based on my own experience over the years so I'm good with it either way.  Which CLP, or dry lube or whatever to use - or not - is probably second only to which caliber to use in terms of generating heat vs light.  Just grab an adult beverage, sitr back and enjoy the show.   ;)
    Arizona"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot."
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    MTK20

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    Re: Army develops dry weapons lube
    « Reply #20 on: February 16, 2016, 06:26:34 PM »
    Not really.  Just different points of view orbiting a central idea.   Different kinds of personal experience drawn from ,occasionally, vastly different backgrounds.   I can find some credence with both of the main schools of thought here based on my own experience over the years so I'm good with it either way.  Which CLP, or dry lube or whatever to use - or not - is probably second only to which caliber to use in terms of generating heat vs light.  Just grab an adult beverage, sitr back and enjoy the show.   ;)

    Oh, I'll watch :popcorn. But "butt hurt" isn't necessarily expressing a point of view.

    Besides, I already know that frog lube is the "world'z greatest lube"  :P.

    *opens adult beverage, sits back*
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    GeorgeHill

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    Re: Army develops dry weapons lube
    « Reply #21 on: February 16, 2016, 06:30:32 PM »
    We're all friends here.
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    MTK20

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    Re: Army develops dry weapons lube
    « Reply #22 on: February 16, 2016, 07:24:03 PM »
    We're all friends here.

    Ok. Just making sure  :cool.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    ZeroTA

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    Re: Army develops dry weapons lube
    « Reply #23 on: February 17, 2016, 12:46:44 AM »
    I'm not saying you should use an M1A for home defense, but I'm also not saying you shouldn't.

    coelacanth

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    Re: Army develops dry weapons lube
    « Reply #24 on: February 18, 2016, 08:10:04 PM »
     :rotfl
    Arizona"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot."
                          Robert A. Heinlein ,   Friday

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