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Author Topic: The Military Budget  (Read 1622 times)

StevenTing

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The Military Budget
« on: August 08, 2011, 03:09:15 PM »
So I was reading an article where the Famous Barney Frank says we could save $200 Billion by making cuts to the military.  By withdrawing from conflicts throughout the world, we could save on military spending without affecting our national security, or something like that.

According to http://www.usdebtclock.org/ we spend about $703 Billion on defense/wars.  This is more of a mental exercise for me.  I haven't read this thread yet but will shortly to see if it is covered there.

http://wethearmed.com/index.php/topic,14469.0.html

But how much of our defense budget goes towards salaries?  I mean, how much would we pay our militaryDoD if they just sat there and didn't do any fighting.  I grabbed the following from wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Armed_Forces
Quote
By service, $225.2 billion was allocated for the Army, $171.7 billion for the Navy and Marine Corps, $160.5 billion for the Air Force and $106.4 billion for defense-wide spending.[10] By function, $154.2 billion was requested for personnel, $283.3 billion for operations and maintenance, $140.1 billion for procurement, $79.1 billion for research and development, $23.9 billion for military construction, and $3.1 billion for family housing.[11]



If there were $200 billion in cuts, where would it come from? My guess would be procurement of new equipment and R&D.  I don't know if I'd agree with cutting R&D, but do we really need to spend that much on procurement?  I know that missiles and ammo are in that figure, but that's a large amount to spend each year.  It's hard for me to wrap my head around it.
Utah


Chief45

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Re: The Military Budget
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2011, 05:27:50 PM »
you seriously want to cut the military budget ?

consider this.

WWII ended in 1945.
The cold war ended in the Reagan era.

We still have major bases,  Army, Air Force and Navy,  in the former belligerent and allied countries.

We could / should close at least half of them, maybe more, with the reduction of costs, bring those troops home, revitalize local bases, and cut the foreign aid payments that are being used to buy off a large chunk of the world as well.

Think about what that influx of military spending and payroll dollars would do for local communities, here.



   
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StevenTing

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Re: The Military Budget
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2011, 05:46:37 PM »
you seriously want to cut the military budget ?

consider this.

WWII ended in 1945.
The cold war ended in the Reagan era.

We still have major bases,  Army, Air Force and Navy,  in the former belligerent and allied countries.

We could / should close at least half of them, maybe more, with the reduction of costs, bring those troops home, revitalize local bases, and cut the foreign aid payments that are being used to buy off a large chunk of the world as well.

Think about what that influx of military spending and payroll dollars would do for local communities, here.
 

Like I said, mental exercise for me.

So if we closed the foreign bases, we would save some on the operations/maintanence costs but I don't think it would be a big dent.  As far as spending that money locally, it would definetly be a big boost.  I would love to cut off foreign aid payments.  I wish there was a website that listed the total amount we are providing in aid to other countries.
Utah

Chief45

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Re: The Military Budget
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2011, 06:00:55 PM »
Kansas. . . . Non Timebo Mala . . . . . . . I will fear no evil. . .

It is what it is. . . . . .It's All Good.

StevenTing

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Re: The Military Budget
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2011, 06:13:40 PM »
I just did a quick scan of those documents.  Why in the world are we providing so much aid?   :banghead  Seems like that money would be better spend on our education system or some other worthy cause.
Utah

Chief45

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Re: The Military Budget
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2011, 06:31:33 PM »
I've not had time to add up the totals per year.  I'm almost afraid to. .  :panic
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Doug Wojtowicz

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Re: The Military Budget
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2011, 08:56:25 PM »
Close all the foreign bases.  Just make sure that there's a good uninterruptable power source to detonate the nuclear weapons on site when the countries we thanklessly protected look at us cross-eyed.  ;)

It'll save on bomber fuel with at option.
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Kaso

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Re: The Military Budget
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2011, 09:39:52 PM »
I have no real knowledge on the subject, but my father (Maj. USAFR) thinks that they could easily reduce the DoD budget by 25-30% simply by getting out of the 2 1/2 wars, and reducing waste and inefficiencies.  He says that that is a conservative estimate.

Kaso
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HMPlatinum

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Re: The Military Budget
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2011, 05:13:31 PM »
Just getting rid of waste and inefficiency...not counting wars.
That was a conservative estimate 20 years ago.

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Bud

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Re: The Military Budget
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2011, 06:03:49 PM »
There could be a real argument for closing foreign bases. Okinawa, Korea, Japan, Germany,Iraq, Kuwait, Afghanistan. etc.

Once closed, we would no longer need the troops that manned tose bases so there woulkd be a huge savings right there when they were retired, separated, rifed, whatever, just discharge them..

If we closed the ports that we maintain overseas, Japan, Italy, Okinawa, Diego Garcia, etc then we would no longer need all those ships or the personnel manning them.

And if we closed all the foreign airbases we would no longer need as many airplanes and the people flying them.

As a matter of fact, if we no longer have any foreign bases or ships sailing around we could probably close most of the bases here.

I think we're on to something here

Barney Franks trhinks so too. Here he is farting on the Rachel Maddow Show (I am not kidding, listen for it)

Rep. Barney Frank Farts on Live TV
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Kaso

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Re: The Military Budget
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2011, 07:01:58 PM »
Just getting rid of waste and inefficiency...not counting wars.
That was a conservative estimate 20 years ago.

-Plat
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Thank you for your service. 

I really was not all that cognizant of such thing 20 years ago, being a little young for that, and all...  ::)

An actual example of waste in the USAF: Yesterday, my father (a navigator) had to go out to the base to fly a local 'mission.'  When he arrived at the base, he found three navigators sitting around in the Nav room, doing nothing.

One of them was on 'TACC' orders, which basically means that he was on alert, and could not do any thing but wait for the call to go... 

The other two were on something called 'Prog. tour' (As I understand it, after training, they have to do so many months of active duty service.)  Basically, these two Lieutenants were being paid to sit around the base and make themselves useful.  However, instead of having one of them pull the mission, the Air Force paid my father to fly it.

This was not a mission that my father 'had' to do for qualification, it was just a local 'ferry' mission.  So... lots of waste! :facepalm

Kaso
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Avenger29

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Re: The Military Budget
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2011, 11:03:52 PM »
Quote
he found three navigators sitting around in the Nav room, doing nothing.

But was one of them Outbreak?

 :neener Just kidding...

I don't THINK I'll ever have to face down routers in the streets.

I should hope not. Mobs of rogue woodworking tools would suck to repel.

Kaso

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Re: The Military Budget
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2011, 11:23:02 PM »
But was one of them Outbreak?
Well, no, but the Captain on TACC is said to be a gun nut... ;D ...So, kind of like Outbreak. :P

Kaso
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Feud

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Re: The Military Budget
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2011, 11:26:17 PM »
An actual example of waste in the USAF: Yesterday, my father (a navigator) had to go out to the base to fly a local 'mission.'  When he arrived at the base, he found three navigators sitting around in the Nav room, doing nothing.

Perhaps they were perched, like FALCONS, waiting to swoop in and render safe orientations.


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Kaso

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Re: The Military Budget
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2011, 11:42:28 PM »
Perhaps they were perched, like FALCONS, waiting to swoop in and render safe orientations.
Hardly.  All three of them were on their smart phones...

Let me reiterate: the guy on TACC was actually working.  He could be called at any time to go where they tell him. 
It's the other two that should have been doing something.  Something productive, that is.

Kaso
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Precious Roy

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Re: The Military Budget
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2011, 01:40:57 AM »
There is some definite room for cutting in the defense budget.  We also need to seriously reevaluate our current alliances and military obligations.  NATO has long outlived its usefulness.  South Korea can defend themselves and we need not have any presence in that country whosoever.  We could easily dispense with the billions of aid we provide to Egypt, Israel, Pakistan etc.  Of course getting troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan needs to happen sooner rather than later.  The immediate abolishing of NORTHCOM would save some money.

The navy needs some pruning.  Cancel the San Antonio Class and cut up the ones under construction for scrap.  Cancel those damned LCS ships.  Retire the Perry class frigates and sell them to South Korea or whoever wants them.  Scrap the marine stovl variant of the F-35.  You could probably cut number of LA class attack subs by a third.

Ground forces need to be brought home, re-arranged and reequipped and their numbers reduced as much as possible.  It needs to become more difficult and politically costly for politicians to send troops overseas to places where there isn't a vital US national interest involved.  And just as importantly it needs become almost impossible for the US military to be used in any domestic capacity whatsoever other than the defense of the US borders from invasion or in the event of a large scale nuclear attack.

The AF has dead weight too.  The U2 is ready for pasture at least a manned U2.  Retirement of F-15s and 16s should be accelerated.  As useful as it is, it may be time for the BUFF to head to AMARC. 

The US needs to concentrate more on long range deterrence and address actual threats to US national interest.  That means no nation building.  No getting into squabbles that don't concern us (Libya-Iraq-Israel and its neighbors-North Korea-Taiwan etc).  No more entangling alliances.  Friend to and arsenal of Liberty everywhere but defender of only our own.

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MacLean

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Re: The Military Budget
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2011, 02:15:46 AM »
Ground forces need to be brought home, re-arranged and reequipped and their numbers reduced as much as possible.

Fail.

Just how do you see that working if we need them? We going to conjure some up in a week?
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Doug Wojtowicz

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Re: The Military Budget
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2011, 02:25:22 AM »
Fail.

Just how do you see that working if we need them? We going to conjure some up in a week?

Precious Roy, like me, was being facetious.   :facepalm  Or was that Bud?
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Bud

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Re: The Military Budget
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2011, 08:49:05 AM »
Precious Roy, like me, was being facetious.   :facepalm  Or was that Bud?

facetious?

me?
Bud
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MacLean

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Re: The Military Budget
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2011, 07:09:00 PM »
Precious Roy, like me, was being facetious.   :facepalm  Or was that Bud?

That was a whole lot of facets for facetious.
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Doug Wojtowicz

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Re: The Military Budget
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2011, 01:27:51 AM »
facetious?

me?

You WERE agreeing with Barney Frank.  If that's not sarcasm or facetiousness, what is?
After a shooting spree, they want to take the guns away from everyone who didn't do it.

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