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Author Topic: Troubling Times 2017  (Read 2277 times)

MTK20

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Troubling Times 2017
« on: February 04, 2017, 10:27:47 AM »
Are these just the growing pains of a new presidency or is there becoming a direct clash with American culture that is turning violent?

I typically want to laugh away SJW's and how they call everyone a Nazi or racist, but after seeing this latest riot at UC Berkeley, things seem to be getting out of hand.

BLM, New president, whatever the hell tomorrow's next riot will be over- the "protests" are becoming more frequent and more bloody as things continue.

When will it stop?



Texas
Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
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Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

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    Kaso

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    Re: Troubling Times 2017
    « Reply #1 on: February 04, 2017, 11:53:13 AM »
    BLM (and when I see that, I still think Bureau of Land Management) needs to learn their place.  They are a fringe group, not mainstream.  Contrary to the coddling that the Obama administration afforded them, they are not supported by a majority of Americans, and they will certainly not be catered to and supported by AG Sessions.  Thank God.

    Will they turn violent, sometime in the next four years?  Probably.  They have been artificially supported and emboldend from the top, for the last eight years. Will it work out well for them in the long term?  No chance in hell.
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    Kaso

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    Re: Troubling Times 2017
    « Reply #2 on: February 04, 2017, 12:04:29 PM »
    BLM, New president, whatever the hell tomorrow's next riot will be over- the "protests" are becoming more frequent and more bloody as things continue.

    When will it stop?
    Personal opinion?  Once they have started murdering and raping in the streets.  When they can no longer be laughed at and ignored.  Then they will be risen up against and slaughtered, and they will finally have the the race war that they have been wanting. :shrug
    Donald J Trump, by the Grace of God: 45th president of the United States.
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    Here's to a great four years!

    MTK20

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    Re: Troubling Times 2017
    « Reply #3 on: February 04, 2017, 12:11:13 PM »
    I just wish the police weren't politically hamstrung by the media. If society would support the police and let them do their job, the local authorities could have pepper sprayed and beanbag rounded their way to a once again peaceful society.

    I don't care what ideology someone supports. If they're making their point not through free speech, but through being a violent public menace and fluffing things up, then they need to be replied in kind to by our law enforcement officers.

    Back the blue, cops are tops, and all that :rock .
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    booksmart

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    Re: Troubling Times 2017
    « Reply #4 on: February 04, 2017, 12:12:24 PM »
    Will they turn violent, sometime in the next four years?  Probably.  They have been artificially supported and emboldend from the top, for the last eight years. Will it work out well for them in the long term?  No chance in hell.

    Which "they", Kaso?  BLM started up after the Zimmerman/Martin shooting, which was only in 2013... so if BLM is your "they", they've only been around four years, not eight.

    If your "they" is black people in general, I disagree that they've been "artificially" supported from the top for the last eight years; if anything, I think President Obama was a little milquetoast in some of his responses to some of the overt racism we saw during his administration.

    I don't think mainstream black people want a race war any more than mainstream white people do.  If you're going to look at the lunatic fringe as representative, they get to hold Dylan Roof against us... not a comparison I would welcome, thanks.

    I'll also point out that most of the rioters at Berkeley weren't students, but anarchists using 'black bloc' tactics (same as the DC riots at the Inauguration).

    Kaso

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    Re: Troubling Times 2017
    « Reply #5 on: February 04, 2017, 01:46:11 PM »
    I'll also point out that most of the rioters at Berkeley weren't students, but anarchists using 'black bloc' tactics (same as the DC riots at the Inauguration).
    You nailed it.  I specifically mentioned BLM, but no, not just them.  Before them it was OWS, another fringe group used by anarchists.  Both groups, as well as environmental special interests, have been spoon fed for eight years, by a president who did his damnedest to destroy traditional American culture and values.

    So no, it is not 'black people.'  If you ask blacks directly, I doubt a majority would support BLM's behavior.  That said, it is hard to argue that those behind BLM are not trying to start a race war, any less than those who used OWS were trying to spark a 'class war.'
    Donald J Trump, by the Grace of God: 45th president of the United States.
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    Plebian

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    Re: Troubling Times 2017
    « Reply #6 on: February 04, 2017, 02:53:01 PM »
    It seems a special case of irony for the riot at UC Berkley stopping expression of free speech. When in the 1960s Berkley had many protest wanting to be allowed to have political discourse and free speech.

    This riot did not bother me nearly as much as the acceptance of violence done against Richard Spencer. He may have horrible views and express them, but he was not violent. When you have celebrities and major media outlets saying the violence against someone simply because of their views is morally correct. Then it is basically inviting civil war.

    The greatest strength of the US is our ability to non-violently determine governance. This idea stems from the allowance of free speech, no matter how horrible we may feel it is morally, by all individuals as long as it is done without violence.   
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    Re: Troubling Times 2017
    « Reply #7 on: February 04, 2017, 04:05:52 PM »
    *waggles a hand* On the one hand, we'd kinda hoped we'd already settled the Nazi thing... we had a war and everything... On the other hand, he wasn't *in the middle of* saying something worth punching him for...

    Kaso

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    Re: Troubling Times 2017
    « Reply #8 on: February 04, 2017, 04:20:36 PM »
    *waggles a hand* On the one hand, we'd kinda hoped we'd already settled the Nazi thing... we had a war and everything... On the other hand, he wasn't *in the middle of* saying something worth punching him for...
    Okay, first, no.  There needs to be a clarification between true Nazism, and whatever else that is called the same by SJWs.  We did settle the Nazi thing.  We had a war because Hitler was a crazed madman, and the NSDAP was his playtoy.  Nazism is only considered 'bad' because it is associated with Hitler and his atrocities.  Rightly so, of course, but had he left the Jews alone and succeeded in knocking out the Soviets, he would have been hailed as the hero of the West.  Actually, he may have been hailed even if he had gone against the Jews, but that is another matter.  The winners write the history books, and because he lost, Nationalism (and because of the KoI's alliance with him, Fascism) got a bad name.

    Why this matters, is there is NOTHING wrong with Nationalism.  No Thing.  The absolute best thing that could happen to this country, is that everyone came together in one mind, and started putting national interest ahead of their own personal.  To start thinking of themselves as 'American first.'  This is impeded by two things.  One, we are a nation of immigrants, and there is no 'American' ethnic group.  People tend to tribalize, and include their own people and exclude others.  Their 'volk.'  The result of this can be seen in eastern Ukraine, where high percentage/majority ethnic Russian areas would prefer to break away and join Russia.  Because it is their people.  Americans do not have that, and so what it comes down to is people that sort of look like us.  Hence the 'white' and 'black' and 'brown' Americas.  If we had a stronger national identity - one that was stronger than skin color - we could more easily overcome that.

    The second thing is the all-or-nothing attitude in our politics.  Each side has some good ideas, but they take them too far.  So far that the ideas themselves becomes toxic to the country. (Off the top of my head, the rush to deregulate Wall Street comes to mind.  Less regulation=Good, Minimal regulation=Bad)  No side is looking out for the best interests of the nation, because they are too interested in preserving power for themselves, and preventing power for 'the others.'  An outgrowth of the tribal mentality. 

    I admit that I am as much to blame as others for this mentality.  As much as I consider myself an American Nationalist, if it came down to it, my family is much more important to me than country.  Part of that is human nature, but the other part is the poor leadership we have been subjected to for the last few decades.  Literally, what has there been to be proud of?  I am hoping President Trump, once he gets settled in, is able to reverse that and bring the two Americas closer together.
    « Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 04:40:53 PM by Kaso »
    Donald J Trump, by the Grace of God: 45th president of the United States.
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    Plebian

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    Re: Troubling Times 2017
    « Reply #9 on: February 04, 2017, 05:38:59 PM »
    *waggles a hand* On the one hand, we'd kinda hoped we'd already settled the Nazi thing... we had a war and everything... On the other hand, he wasn't *in the middle of* saying something worth punching him for...

    I do not care at all what he is saying. There is no reason to punch him.

    A Nazi can give all the nazi speeches he/she likes. The same as a Commie can give all the commie speeches he/she likes. Same as a preacher can preach all he/she likes. etc etc

    I know it goes against the new order of 'but MEH feelings', BUT your feelings do not effing matter in the least bit.

    Free speech is INHERENTLY meant to protect the most horrid among us.   
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    MTK20

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    Re: Troubling Times 2017
    « Reply #10 on: February 04, 2017, 06:53:17 PM »
    I do not care at all what he is saying. There is no reason to punch him.

    A Nazi can give all the nazi speeches he/she likes. The same as a Commie can give all the commie speeches he/she likes. Same as a preacher can preach all he/she likes. etc etc

    I know it goes against the new order of 'but MEH feelings', BUT your feelings do not effing matter in the least bit.

    Free speech is INHERENTLY meant to protect the most horrid among us.

     :thumbup2 Speaking a lot of truth in this thread, plebian.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

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    Re: Troubling Times 2017
    « Reply #11 on: February 04, 2017, 08:37:23 PM »
    To quote my favorite Youtuber, Kraut and Tea, who quoted Prince Klemens Wenzel von Metternich , "You can do many things with a bayonet, except sit on it".

    These rioters are what I like to call the "bayonet fringe", these are the ones who are willing to commit the violent acts of their political ideology while their handlers and supporters watch from a safe distance, or just those willing to use violence and intimidation as a way of getting people to come to their side.

    The irony being they are trying to show people how anti- something they are, by becoming the very thing they are protesting(rioting) against, in this case it is fascism. Even worse is they give every single reason as to why they are protesting(rioting), except the real reason, the real reason they are protesting(rioting) is that they don't want to think or entertain any ideas that go contradictory to what they've been taught or raised on for most of their lives, which is America is evil, the west is evil and that feelings are important.

    To put it simply, they don't want to entertain any other ideas from anyone, because if they did they would have to admit that they are wrong and are being stupid.

    When you have to use violence, intimidation, shutdown debate between those you disagree with, label those you disagree with as monsters and use feelings to justify your point, you've already lost and have admitted defeat. No you don't get to punch Nazi's in the face because you don't like what they have to say or believe, no you don't get to punch KKK members in the face because you don't agree with what they say or believe. The very fact that ANYONE has to ask these questions is hair pulling levels of frusturating.  :banghead
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    Raptor

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    Re: Troubling Times 2017
    « Reply #12 on: February 04, 2017, 08:50:32 PM »
    I do not care at all what he is saying. There is no reason to punch him.

    A Nazi can give all the nazi speeches he/she likes. The same as a Commie can give all the commie speeches he/she likes. Same as a preacher can preach all he/she likes. etc etc

    I know it goes against the new order of 'but MEH feelings', BUT your feelings do not effing matter in the least bit.

    Free speech is INHERENTLY meant to protect the most horrid among us.   

    I agree wholeheartedly, though I do freely admit that if I came across Mr. Spencer mid-speech, I might not have enough self-control to keep from hauling off and decking him myself.

    Back to the OP, again I agree with Plebean. I don't like Commies, I don't like Social-Progressives, and I absolutely hate Nazis, but I will absolutely defend their right to peacefully assemble to air their views, opinions, and grievances (okay, I probably wouldn't defend the Nazis, but I wouldn't stop them either. Much as I'd want to.). The operative word there, however, is peacefully. What happened in Berkely and on those 2-3 blocks in DC on Inauguration Day were not peaceful. They were not protests, and we need to stop referring to them as such. They were riots, plain and simple. If you destroy property and physically assault bystanders/opponents, you've crossed a big, bold line, the response to which by the authorities (IMO) should be to switch from crowd control to, "FIX BAYONETS! FORWARD MARCH!"

    And I know that the violent anarchists (for want of a better word) are a small fraction of the demonstrators. But the Progressives need to start policing and controlling their own at these events. I recall hearing and reading multiple reports from the original TEA Party protests of agitators showing up and attempting to start trouble, only to be quickly identified, isolated, and contained by their fellow demonstrators and told to either shape up or leave, and that any further attempt to incite violence would result in immediate and rather unpleasant consequences. The Progressives needs to start doing the same, otherwise they will lose what little credibly they have in the eyes of the rest of country, despite the Media's attempts to paint them as the poor, innocent, misunderstood victims.
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    MTK20

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    Re: Troubling Times 2017
    « Reply #13 on: February 04, 2017, 08:57:33 PM »
    I agree wholeheartedly, though I do freely admit that if I came across Mr. Spencer mid-speech, I might not have enough self-control to keep from hauling off and decking him myself.

    Back to the OP, again I agree with Plebean. I don't like Commies, I don't like Social-Progressives, and I absolutely hate Nazis, but I will absolutely defend their right to peacefully assemble to air their views, opinions, and grievances (okay, I probably wouldn't defend the Nazis, but I wouldn't stop them either. Much as I'd want to.). The operative word there, however, is peacefully. What happened in Berkely and on those 2-3 blocks in DC on Inauguration Day were not peaceful. They were not protests, and we need to stop referring to them as such. They were riots, plain and simple. If you destroy property and physically assault bystanders/opponents, you've crossed a big, bold line, the response to which by the authorities (IMO) should be to switch from crowd control to, "FIX BAYONETS! FORWARD MARCH!"

    And I know that the violent anarchists (for want of a better word) are a small fraction of the demonstrators. But the Progressives need to start policing and controlling their own at these events. I recall hearing and reading multiple reports from the original TEA Party protests of agitators showing up and attempting to start trouble, only to be quickly identified, isolated, and contained by their fellow demonstrators and told to either shape up or leave, and that any further attempt to incite violence would result in immediate and rather unpleasant consequences. The Progressives needs to start doing the same, otherwise they will lose what little credibly they have in the eyes of the rest of country, despite the Media's attempts to paint them as the poor, innocent, misunderstood victims.

    Just a side note, thank you for clarifying this. An anarchist who violates the NAP, is directly contradicting the ideology and therefore, is not an anarchist at all. Rather they are a vandal and should be treated as such. [/drift]

    Now back to the main discussion. If you are fighting Nazi's by protesting the right to free speech of a homosexual, catholic, Jew (Milo, they show up and cause a ruckus at his stuff too), then you are doing something quite wrong.
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    MTK20

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    Re: Troubling Times 2017
    « Reply #14 on: February 04, 2017, 09:09:04 PM »
    Texas
    Do we forget that cops were primarily still using 6 Shot Revolvers well through the mid 80's? It wasn't until after 1986 that most departments then relented and went to autos.
    Capacity wasn't really an issue then... and honestly really it's not even an issue now.
    Ray Chapman, used to say that the 125-grain Magnum load’s almost magical stopping power was the only reason to load .357 instead of .38 Special +P ammunition into a fighting revolver chambered for the Magnum round. I agree. - Massad Ayoob

    Paradoxically it is those who strive for self-reliance, who remain vigilant and ready to help others.

    RMc

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    Politically Incorrect Response
    « Reply #15 on: February 04, 2017, 09:10:24 PM »
    Perhaps it is  time to unleash the SKUNK:

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    Re: Troubling Times 2017
    « Reply #16 on: February 05, 2017, 11:24:10 AM »
    John Ringo has a very interesting blog post up.

    https://www.facebook.com/notes/john-ringo/cigarettes-dont-care/10154393644457055?qid=6382874637355543930&mf_story_key=4157549672238876160

    here are the last couple of paragraphs from this essay.

    Democracy is about 'shout' vs 'shoot'.
    People keep comparing Trump to Hitler. One of the sub-points to this is why that is wrong. Trump, despite the pronouncements of the Left, was not brought to power in a wave of Right-wing street demonstrations and violent actions. There were no Clinton rallies which were bombed or even where the attendees were beaten by mobs of Trump supporters. (Vice San Jose, yes? It was San Jose, wasn't it?)
    Trump is the ultimate example (possibly the last possible example) of why democracy is about 'shout' not 'shoot'. Trump simply shouted loudly enough to be heard through the noise. As loud as he possibly could. So loud even the Right considered it a bit much. They still voted for him. BECAUSE he was the only one who could cut through the noise of the Left.
    The protesters, OTOH, are not only shouting, they are 'shooting'. (Metaphorically. Using violence to promote their agenda.)
    At some point there WILL be a Right-wing leader who uses 'shoot' as well as 'shout.' That's going to be Hitler. (Though by that time the insult will have become so passe I doubt anyone will care.)
    That will be a very bad thing. Because it is passing unlikely he or she will stop using political motivated violence after they obtain power.
    The same is the case for the Left. There WILL at some point be a Mao.
    Which one comes first is a moot point.
    Neither is a good thing.
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    booksmart

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    Re: Troubling Times 2017
    « Reply #17 on: February 05, 2017, 11:24:42 AM »


    Does it seem odd to anyone else that the topic Milo was going to discuss at Berkeley (free speech & pulling federal funding), is exactly what President Trump tweeted after seeing reports of the riots?

    Bud

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    Re: Troubling Times 2017
    « Reply #18 on: February 05, 2017, 11:51:28 AM »
    the very small minority is also a very well funded minority. (George Soros supports an awful lot of these fringe groups like BLM) is doing their very well planned and best to tear down the government.

    The violence will continue and escalate. At some point in the near future, some hidden marksman on a roof top is going to fire on the protesters and then turn and fire at the police. That will result in an overwhelming force over reaction by the police and it will become the first of many forced violent confrontations that escalate the violence until a civil, cultural war erupts.

    Just a guess on my part but how many other times in history have similar events occurred with the same predictable results?
    MissouriBud
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    Re: Troubling Times 2017
    « Reply #19 on: February 09, 2017, 02:48:26 AM »
    As long as the left starts it...
    "If we don't fight as radicals for our liberty, eventually we will have none."-sqlbullet
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    Grant

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    Re: Troubling Times 2017
    « Reply #20 on: February 09, 2017, 08:23:04 AM »
    the very small minority is also a very well funded minority. (George Soros supports an awful lot of these fringe groups like BLM) is doing their very well planned and best to tear down the government.

    The violence will continue and escalate. At some point in the near future, some hidden marksman on a roof top is going to fire on the protesters and then turn and fire at the police. That will result in an overwhelming force over reaction by the police and it will become the first of many forced violent confrontations that escalate the violence until a civil, cultural war erupts.

    Just a guess on my part but how many other times in history have similar events occurred with the same predictable results?

    I have no doubts this will happen at some point.

       I have always been labeled a pessimist, war-monger, war-wanter,etc. No.   I never WANT the troubles that I believe we will someday have.

       I said before Trump it was too late to change the direction of the US, both due to being too far gone, and because the left wouldn't cede control once someone more conservative in power tries pushing the balance the other way.

      I still say in my lifetime, the US will become the equivalent of a south American 2nd or 3rd world nation.  We will be in dire financial straits, things will go unfunded, police will leave areas in control of militias and street gangs, violence will happen between political and ethnic groups.     We will not have a civil war, however things will be hard.

     
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    Re: Troubling Times 2017
    « Reply #21 on: February 09, 2017, 10:28:09 PM »
    Perhaps it is  time to unleash the SKUNK:


    Works for me.  Maybe even a few grenades loaded with the stuff to lob onto a point that needs to be cleared of hostiles.  Clearly a better alternative to even most of the non-lethal responses currently in the inventory.  It would also be fairly easy to load with a chemical marker that could be used later to identify participants in violent activity for possible prosecution.   :hmm 

    the very small minority is also a very well funded minority. (George Soros supports an awful lot of these fringe groups like BLM) is doing their very well planned and best to tear down the government.

    The violence will continue and escalate. At some point in the near future, some hidden marksman on a roof top is going to fire on the protesters and then turn and fire at the police. That will result in an overwhelming force over reaction by the police and it will become the first of many forced violent confrontations that escalate the violence until a civil, cultural war erupts.

    Just a guess on my part but how many other times in history have similar events occurred with the same predictable results?
    According to Dennis Prager ( syndicated radio talk show host ) we have been involved in the second American civil war since 1962 and only one side has been relentlessly engaged in hostilities.  Agree or disagree with his contentions, its hard to see this going the way of peaceful resolution and a renewed commitment to peaceful coexistence. 
    Arizona"A dying culture invariably exhibits personal rudeness.  Bad manners.  Lack of consideration for others in minor matters.  A loss of politeness, of gentle manners, is more significant than is a riot."
                          Robert A. Heinlein ,   Friday

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    Re: Troubling Times 2017
    « Reply #22 on: February 09, 2017, 11:02:24 PM »
    Which "they", Kaso?  BLM started up after the Zimmerman/Martin shooting, which was only in 2013... so if BLM is your "they", they've only been around four years, not eight.

    If your "they" is black people in general, I disagree that they've been "artificially" supported from the top for the last eight years; if anything, I think President Obama was a little milquetoast in some of his responses to some of the overt racism we saw during his administration.

    I don't think mainstream black people want a race war any more than mainstream white people do.  If you're going to look at the lunatic fringe as representative, they get to hold Dylan Roof against us... not a comparison I would welcome, thanks.

    I'll also point out that most of the rioters at Berkeley weren't students, but anarchists using 'black bloc' tactics (same as the DC riots at the Inauguration).

    Well, Dylan Roof was ONE crazy white dude while BLM is a lot of people protesting everything done by the police. BLM has also been funded by leftist groups (according to reports) and tries to get involved in everything that the police do

    I wouldn't say Obama was milqutoast about it, he sought to interject himself in every police vs black person situation there was. Remember when he said the police were stupid for detaining the black professor?
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    Re: Troubling Times 2017
    « Reply #23 on: February 10, 2017, 09:33:08 AM »
    Remember when he said the police were stupid for detaining the black professor?

    Remember that the professor *was in his own home* when he was detained?

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    Re: Troubling Times 2017
    « Reply #24 on: February 10, 2017, 09:59:05 AM »
    Remember that the professor *was in his own home* when he was detained?
    Doesn't matter.  Maybe the cops were wrong in this instance (I am not familiar with it) maybe not.  The point is, you never call out your own in public.  You do it behind closed doors, where they do not lose face. 

    The police are effective only so far as the public respects them.  The president needs to be sensitive to that fact, not matter how 'wrong' or 'stupid' they may be.

    But President Obama never got that.  He never understood that making that type of public comment serves only to drive a wedge between peoples.  "If I had a son, he would look like Treyvon..."  Another classic dumbs___ comment that helped nobody, and only resulted in getting one side more riled up than they needed to be.
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