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Author Topic: Serious question: people in worse moods?  (Read 12069 times)

sarge712

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Re: Serious question: people in worse moods?
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2014, 10:08:17 pm »
. . . even the optimists are going on the condition of just bearing up and making life as good as they can where they are.

I'm an optimist and that's how I feel to a T
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Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong.
That is thine oath.

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    scarville

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    Re: Serious question: people in worse moods?
    « Reply #26 on: October 14, 2014, 08:51:15 am »
    As a professional software developer, just hearing hashtag makes me cringe.

    As a Systems Engineer, I agree. 
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    strangelittleman

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    Re: Serious question: people in worse moods?
    « Reply #27 on: October 14, 2014, 04:41:47 pm »
       her opinion is that the entire world is just tense, waiting for "something" to happen, even if it ain't the end of the world.
    She says everyone (I 100% agree) is acting like the cattle and horses do before a hard storm when they get in foul moods, antsy and edgy, flighty, not knowing which way to go.

      I think she's right. I noticed it starting last December. It was barely discernible at first, then it got more noticeable around late Jan, again in late March-early April then it made it's biggest leaps in July August and Sept. I think "it" is still building, people are waiting to "See what happens next"

      I agree w/ your Grandmother that we can pickup on the general atmosphere around us, just like the wildlife and domesticated animals do prior to any number of events....Case in point; Have you ever walked into a Bar, and felt the "electricity in the air" just before a donnybrook starts, or walk in just after it's occurred? One notices a palpable "something" in the air....How about that time when you've walked into a house and instantly picked up on the fact that someone there is sick, or some other thing is unusual or out of place, just something intangible that you can't put a finger on....without apparent any visual nor auditory indicators?

      It's the same thing in many instances in life, we just have become so occluded to what goes on around us in this hectic jumble of day to day modern life that, for the most part, we've closed ourselves off from being able to perform what is probably an ancient built-in survival mode that the lower forms of life still have access to, as they are leading a much less distracted existence and in doing so, are most certainly much more capable of such heightened perception.

      It's not magic, Psychic slop, nor is it Jedi BS, it's just freeing up disk space in the nugget and setting your noodles to "Receive". Sort of a self-preserving, "Stop to smell the roses" kind of concept.
      There is many an instance, in many a true account, where people described therein, talk about something along the lines of; " Just knowing something wasn't right" or " You could just feel the insert mood/feeling etc. when you entered" so on and so on.

      I just think of it as a sort of "Col. Cooper's Color Code" for the parts of the brain that most of us have switched-off and probably shouldn't have.
     
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    coelacanth

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    Re: Serious question: people in worse moods?
    « Reply #28 on: October 14, 2014, 07:05:02 pm »
    Well said.
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    Re: Serious question: people in worse moods?
    « Reply #29 on: October 14, 2014, 09:52:09 pm »
    We evolved to survive. If your gut is screaming something is not right. Then it is very likely your gut is right.

    Humans put off all kinds of subtle signals to warn others around them. It is much the same for any social animal.
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    tokugawa

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    Re: Serious question: people in worse moods?
    « Reply #30 on: October 23, 2014, 03:20:08 pm »
    Well there is sure plenty to worry about.  And for the first time in a long while I am willing to assign blame. The commies are destroying the country I grew up in and love.

     Lessee- in the past couple of years- I have lost my health insurance, and now my doctor retired 10 years early due to zerocare.
     Work is super slow-economy in the dumpster.
     County is trying to close the local range down, in operation since 1923. -.
     State has a initative to destroy our gun club shows, via requiring any transfer ,even a "hey, try this" at the local sandpit to go through a dealer. 18 page bill. Would make criminals out of most of the gun owners I know. 7 million raised to promote it, from five or six billionaires.
     hell the list goes on and on- the economy, the inflation, the world situation, the deliberate destroying of our national defense, the enstupification of our children in the national propaganda corp schools, the willful refusal to secure our borders against criminals, and plague, in short, the headlong rush to convert the USA into a third world hellhole.
     Problem is, I don't think we have the resources to turn it around- have you talked to any young folks lately?  Reflect on this for a bit- then think about what passes for schooling these days-and remember while you are reading- this was what was expected of 8th graders, in Kentucky, in the early 1900's.

      http://www.bullittcountyhistory.com/bchistory/schoolexam1912.html

     A strong, healthy, wealthy, numerous and well educated middle class is the nightmare of tyrants, and that is why we are under relentless attack.


     
     
     
    « Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 04:55:08 pm by tokugawa »

    Plebian

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    Re: Serious question: people in worse moods?
    « Reply #31 on: October 23, 2014, 04:33:27 pm »
    I have seen that test a few times before. It is a lot of rote memorization with a tiny amount of logical reasoning and no questions requiring analysis, evaluation and synthesis.

    It is a great test if you want a drone to work in a large industrial facility as basically a cog in a large machine. Which is honestly what they were educating children for at the time.

    A good modern educator is trying to teach critical thinking, logical reasoning and the ability to analyze, evaluate and synthesize answers to completely novel problems. Rote memorization is becoming more and more useless as technology progresses.

    It doesn't do a whole lot of good to memorize a programming language if you are going to be using 10+ in a single lifetime, Or if those robotic arms you are working on are upgraded with new technology almost every 5 years. 

    It will take some time to change our education system to produce children for our new information age/post industrial age system.
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

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    Re: Serious question: people in worse moods?
    « Reply #32 on: October 23, 2014, 05:09:13 pm »
    That rote memorization included a lot of stuff that seems to be nearly lost knowledge among the young- like the Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights, some basic geography, math, spelling, etc-  that "rote memorization" is a major part of basic cultural literacy. Ethan Allen. John Paul Jones. Rogers Rangers. Jim Bowie, Daniel Boone, Davy Crockett. If you do not have a cultural heritage shared, you will end up not having  a country- those educators loved the USA, and they were doing their best to create citizens.
     The graduates from schools like that went on and spurred the greatest era of development in the history of the world. Problem solvers? Yes, in spades. Powered flight for example.

    coelacanth

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    Re: Serious question: people in worse moods?
    « Reply #33 on: October 23, 2014, 07:06:50 pm »
    Agreed.  Rote memorization ( and a slide rule) allowed the generation in question to do math functions in their heads that today's high school graduate would need a calculator to solve.  The test depended on the folks taking it to have the basic knowledge to solve problems appropriate to their situation which in most cases ( certainly for most Kentuckians of that time )did not involve being a "drone" in some factory.  If you want a lesson in analysis, evaluation and synthesis try being a farmer in an age without weather satellites and betting your own money every year that you could do it successfully.
    I have seen that test a few times before. It is a lot of rote memorization with a tiny amount of logical reasoning and no questions requiring analysis, evaluation and synthesis.

    It is a great test if you want a drone to work in a large industrial facility as basically a cog in a large machine. Which is honestly what they were educating children for at the time.

    A good modern educator is trying to teach critical thinking, logical reasoning and the ability to analyze, evaluate and synthesize answers to completely novel problems. Rote memorization is becoming more and more useless as technology progresses.

    It doesn't do a whole lot of good to memorize a programming language if you are going to be using 10+ in a single lifetime, Or if those robotic arms you are working on are upgraded with new technology almost every 5 years. 

    It will take some time to change our education system to produce children for our new information age/post industrial age system.
    I agree with you about "good" modern educators but that is an increasingly scarce commodity.   As evidence of that fact I would point you to the majority of colleges and universities that are delivering worthless goods at inflated prices.  Recent news articles have examined this phenomenon and it was outlined early on in the book "None Dare Call It Treason" by John Stormer.
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    JesseL

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    Re: Serious question: people in worse moods?
    « Reply #34 on: October 23, 2014, 07:23:23 pm »
    People from that era are the same ones who could never figure out how to set the clocks on their VCRs.  :P
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    Re: Serious question: people in worse moods?
    « Reply #35 on: October 23, 2014, 07:47:46 pm »
    A few did great things and solved amazing puzzles. The great many were not those few people.

    It is extremely common to look back with rose colored glasses. You know the great figures. They changed industry/science etc etc.

    You just gotta ask yourself. What 12 year old is 'messing around' on his/her tablet right now creating the seed of autonomous programming to control robotics. What child is perusing the great information well available today and sees the functions flash into his/her brain to harness fusion effectively. We do not know those great people yet. 

    They can see these things not because of rote memorization. They do not need to remember these things. That glowing screen in front of them holds the details. The synthesis of a new idea and plan is what they need. The details can be looked up later. 



    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

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    Re: Serious question: people in worse moods?
    « Reply #36 on: October 23, 2014, 08:16:51 pm »
    A few did great things and solved amazing puzzles. The great many were not those few people.

    It is extremely common to look back with rose colored glasses. You know the great figures. They changed industry/science etc etc.

    You just gotta ask yourself. What 12 year old is 'messing around' on his/her tablet right now creating the seed of autonomous programming to control robotics. What child is perusing the great information well available today and sees the functions flash into his/her brain to harness fusion effectively. We do not know those great people yet. 

    They can see these things not because of rote memorization. They do not need to remember these things. That glowing screen in front of them holds the details. The synthesis of a new idea and plan is what they need. The details can be looked up later.

     :o

    That was surprisingly moving.
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    Re: Serious question: people in worse moods?
    « Reply #37 on: October 23, 2014, 08:43:00 pm »
    They can see these things not because of rote memorization. They do not need to remember these things. That glowing screen in front of them holds the details. The synthesis of a new idea and plan is what they need. The details can be looked up later. 
    I do believe that there is a need for a balance of both.  All of the above ^ that you listed are great, but where will we be, if our young people can not name the three branches of the federal government, let alone the functions of each?  Or how many states are in the union?  Or who George Washington was?  Or what a verb is?  Dynamic thought and problem-solving abilities are important, but some things you really should not have to go look up...  Some things really need to be memorized.

    And the ability to easily memorize material is an important skill, in itself.  It is not antiquated or out of date.



    Kaso

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    Re: Serious question: people in worse moods?
    « Reply #38 on: October 23, 2014, 09:58:00 pm »
    Exactly.   If your basic assumptions, or input data, are wrong then you cannot arrive at the correct solution.  Rote memorization of something as mundane as the squares of every number from one to one hundred gives you a basic understanding of the relationship of numbers to not only one another but the world around you.  Very little is more amusing - embarassing - depressing - than watching a young person of high school age try to make change for a transaction without computerized help.  An extension of that is watching a construction foreman miss the estimate for how many yards of concrete are necessary to complete a job by an order of magnitude.

    Common sense is not common because common knowledge is not common.  If that is looking back with rose colored glasses then I am guilty as charged.  Most people were not visionaries or movers and shakers in any age - then or now.  Who would you choose to cast your lot with when the "glowing screen" no longer glows?  The "details" as you refer to them have been available to those willing to do the research for the last 600 years or so - that will not change.  The other thing that will not change is the fact that the current generation stands upon the shoulders of the previous one and if either generation forgets that, they do so at their peril. 
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    Re: Serious question: people in worse moods?
    « Reply #39 on: October 23, 2014, 11:08:38 pm »
    I do believe that there is a need for a balance of both.  All of the above ^ that you listed are great, but where will we be, if our young people can not name the three branches of the federal government, let alone the functions of each?  Or how many states are in the union?  Or who George Washington was?  Or what a verb is?  Dynamic thought and problem-solving abilities are important, but some things you really should not have to go look up...  Some things really need to be memorized.

    And the ability to easily memorize material is an important skill, in itself.  It is not antiquated or out of date.



    Kaso

    Do they need to know the three branches, OR the function they play in preserving liberty and adding to a functioning society of free people? Do they need to know the number of states, OR why there are different states and the rights held to the states? Do they need to know who Washington was, OR do they need to know why he did the things he did?

    If you can logically reason, and synthesis the importance of the elements of any system. Then the details of the names of such system are minimally important.

    A book, and the information contained within, are nothing on their own. The ideas the information can inspire in humans is where the true magic is in the world.

    Insects can memorize information. I would hope a human would strive to truly understand the world around themselves.

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    Re: Serious question: people in worse moods?
    « Reply #40 on: October 23, 2014, 11:14:53 pm »
    I will answer Coelacanth in a very simple manner.

    I want to be with the party that can look at the 'glowing screen', rock or iron ore, and see the tool hidden inside waiting for his/her mind to release.

    That human will likely see tomorrow. I pray the other humans do not get in his/her way too much in the process.
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

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    Re: Serious question: people in worse moods?
    « Reply #41 on: October 23, 2014, 11:56:27 pm »
    Do they need to know the three branches, OR the function they play in preserving liberty and adding to a functioning society of free people? Do they need to know the number of states, OR why there are different states and the rights held to the states? Do they need to know who Washington was, OR do they need to know why he did the things he did?
    The answer is not an 'either, or.'  It is absolutely BOTH.



    Kaso

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    Re: Serious question: people in worse moods?
    « Reply #42 on: October 24, 2014, 12:13:36 am »
    I am not attempting to debate the merits of critical thinking skills.  Rather, I disagree that memorization is of little use in today's society.  In school, I was made to learn the multiplication tables.  AS WELL, I learned how to multiply other numbers, and WHY the answer is what it is.  Let me tell you, it makes my daily life a lot easier to have basic crap like that stored in my head.

    Tell me, is it acceptable to you that a damned high percentage of graduating seniors can not find France (or, for that matter, much else) on a map?  'Oh, but they can look it up...'  Yeah, so they can, but that is BASIC, useful information that any man ought to know.  I take pride in my ability to pick out most countries in Africa, Europe, and the Americas.  I try to learn them all, learn their capitals, and know what their flags look like.  That, and maybe a little bit about their society/economy/etc.

    Why?  That information is useless, right?  Well, yes.  The thing is, those random fact enrich my mind.  I want to know them, and have that information on file.  I love facts.  Facts are absolute.



    Kaso

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    Re: Serious question: people in worse moods?
    « Reply #43 on: October 24, 2014, 05:09:37 am »
    The "new information / post industrial age" meme is one of the most corrosive ideas that has ever been foisted on our society, in my opinion.  Until everyone can print every non-consumable item they need, you need industry, which means you need workers in your economy, or you are exporting tons of money and only a fraction of your people have real jobs.  Everyone needs the basic info memorized, so they can function without running to another person, book or computer.  The truly exceptional DO memorize a lot of stuff, it just seems to be a function of that type of mind.  And they don't need a glowing screen to come up with the next great equation, just something to write on.  Sometimes not even that.  Einstein's work was done with "thought experiments", just his imagination.
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    Re: Serious question: people in worse moods?
    « Reply #44 on: October 24, 2014, 07:44:11 am »
    Einstein... I will leave you with a nice quote from the great thinker.

        “[I do not] carry such information in my mind since it is readily available in books. ...The value of a college education is not the learning of many facts but the training of the mind to think.”

    - Einstein 1921 in response to his not knowing the speed of sound as included in Thomas Edison's test

    You might wanna look a bit more into Einstein before trotting that pony out to prance. He was hard-core against memorizing things that could easily be found in books. I am sure the man would have loved the 'glowing screen' of information we have at our fingertips today.

    We also no longer need to 'run to another person, book or computer'. That glowing well of information fits in your pocket just fine. :D

    "I believe in intuition and inspiration. … At times I feel certain I am right while not knowing the reason. When the eclipse of 1919 confirmed my intuition, I was not in the least surprised. In fact I would have been astonished had it turned out otherwise. Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution. It is, strictly speaking, a real factor in scientific research."

    -Cosmic Religion : With Other Opinions and Aphorisms (1931) by Albert Einstein, p. 97

    I am by no means stating memorization is completely useless OR impractical. It is just the lowest level of comprehension. If you are to stress anything let it be the true understanding that comes from logic applied in the most rigorous way possible. 
    Oklahoma"If all our problems are solved, we'll find new ones to replace them. If we can't find new ones, we'll make new ones."

    coelacanth

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    Re: Serious question: people in worse moods?
    « Reply #45 on: October 24, 2014, 02:14:06 pm »
    I will answer Coelacanth in a very simple manner.

    I want to be with the party that can look at the 'glowing screen', rock or iron ore, and see the tool hidden inside waiting for his/her mind to release.

    That human will likely see tomorrow. I pray the other humans do not get in his/her way too much in the process.
    Fair enough.  I get the impression your views and mine are yin and yang in relation to this question - that is, each essential in its own right and incomplete without the other. 

    As I have pointed out, though, having a base of knowledge is not an inconsequential thing - especially in day to day interactions with other people and the world around you.  When something needs to be done immediately, if not sooner, taking time to tease the information you need out of the internet or the cloud or even a book may not be a luxury you can afford.   The assumption of a high tech, industrialized society with lightning fast access to nearly unlimited amounts of information is just that - an assumption. 


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    Re: Serious question: people in worse moods?
    « Reply #46 on: October 24, 2014, 04:22:46 pm »
    *shrug* I don't memorize things that I can access.  It drives my work partner nuts.

    "Haven't you memorized ***** by now?"

    "No.  It's on the sheet."

    "So you should have memorized it by now."

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    Re: Serious question: people in worse moods?
    « Reply #47 on: October 24, 2014, 08:13:45 pm »
    We do a similar thing at work. We have books (binders, really) of our rules and procedures, with paper updates that come out periodically, that we're supposed to keep up to date. As a supervisor, I'm supposed to care deeply that people have gotten their revisions placed in their books.

    I don't. Why? Because all of it is available on computer, and in the rare event that you NEED to look something up and the computer is down, each station has a current copy. I cannot tell you the last time I actually pulled out one of the SOPs to look something up. I open the PDF and search for the term I need, which gives me the entry I need and all cross references. But we continue to slavishly maintain the books, because it's what we do. It's the same logic behind rote memorization, only less appropriately employed.

    Never, ever memorize anything you can look up, unless it is useful as a timesaving measure, or it is something you NEED to know by heart. And, FWIW, I would place things like the basic ideas of the Constitution, BoR and Declaration of Independence as things you NEED to know by heart, because those things embody how you operate as a citizen.

    Mike
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    sarge712

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    Re: Serious question: people in worse moods?
    « Reply #48 on: October 24, 2014, 09:59:43 pm »
    I agree. The only things I commit to memory are song lyrics, a favorite scripture or two, other assorted inspirational / motivational poetry and the mildot / yds formula.

    My father-in-law rewarded the grandkids with cash for memorizing certain poems such as "In Flanders Fields," "Ozymandias," "Trees," "The Tiger," etc. That I can agree on but otherwise, look it up.
    North CarolinaBe without fear in the face of thine enemies.
    Be brave and upright that God may love thee.
    Speak the truth always even if it leads to thy death.
    Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong.
    That is thine oath.

    THE NORSEMAN

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    Re: Serious question: people in worse moods?
    « Reply #49 on: October 24, 2014, 10:37:06 pm »
    My opinion, for what it's worth-

    If you want to throw a big blanket over it, and then just fill in all the details underneath with volumes of all the details that cause and effect would bring across America's social spectrum?

    We are at the tipping point of a 50/50 ratio of those who believe in self-sufficiency vs. those who want to be taken care of, and the pendulum is swinging the wrong way....

    And the kicker is, most of the politicians we've elected BELIEVE that they can can take care of us better than we can.
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